[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Serhiy Storchaka]

Serhiy Storchaka added the comment:

Ah, I looked on 3.5 change and missed that in 3.6 you test both tkinter.Entry 
and ttk.Entry.

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

Serhiy: entry=entry as much as any name=expression pair to print the value of 
variable entry on test failure, either "entry=)" or "entry=)", as in

==
FAIL: test_paste_entry (__main__.PasteTest) (ans='two', end='end', 
entry=)
Test pasting into an entry with and without a selection.
--
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "F:\Python\dev\36\lib\idlelib\idle_test\test_editmenu.py", line 53, in 
test_paste_entry
self.assertTrue(False)
AssertionError: False is not true

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

The two stable buildbots that failed on test_idle before do not now: AMD64 
SnowLeapard 1403, AMD64 Win 7 2258.

--
stage: needs patch -> resolved
status: open -> closed

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

Oh right, requires('gui') does not work at module level in 2.7.
This should fix.  Will try to check next round of bot builds.

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Roundup Robot]

Roundup Robot added the comment:

New changeset 274308a3b8b6 by Terry Jan Reedy in branch '2.7':
Issue #5124: For 2.7, move requires('gui') from module level to setUpClass.
https://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/274308a3b8b6

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily added the comment:

Terry, the 2.7 version of the test changes is causing buildbot and test_idle 
failures when the "gui" condition is not met. See, for example, 
http://buildbot.python.org/all/builders/AMD64%20Snow%20Leop%202.7/builds/1400.

--
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status: closed -> open

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Serhiy Storchaka]

Serhiy Storchaka added the comment:

entry=entry in test is not needed.

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Roundup Robot]

Roundup Robot added the comment:

New changeset 3017e41b0c99 by Terry Jan Reedy in branch '2.7':
Issue #5124: NEWS entries.
https://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/3017e41b0c99

New changeset 62b949a179cb by Terry Jan Reedy in branch '3.5':
Issue #5124: NEWS entries.
https://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/62b949a179cb

New changeset 2fc15579606b by Terry Jan Reedy in branch 'default':
Merge Issue #5124: NEWS entries.
https://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/2fc15579606b

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Terry J. Reedy]

Changes by Terry J. Reedy :


--
resolution:  -> fixed
stage: commit review -> resolved
status: open -> closed

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Roundup Robot]

Roundup Robot added the comment:

New changeset 095e79636663 by Terry Jan Reedy in branch 'default':
Issue #5124: rename PyShell back to pyshell and patch test for 3.6
https://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/095e79636663

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Roundup Robot]

Roundup Robot added the comment:

New changeset 99760b6a181e by Terry Jan Reedy in branch 'default':
Issue #5124: Temporary pyshell rename to avoid case-folding collision in merge.
https://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/99760b6a181e

New changeset 6c469b50e198 by Terry Jan Reedy in branch '2.7':
Issue #5124: Paste with selection should always replace.
https://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/6c469b50e198

New changeset f8b40e0d5913 by Terry Jan Reedy in branch '3.5':
Issue #5124: Paste with selection should always replace.
https://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/f8b40e0d5913

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

I had some trouble committing and pushing these patches.  After deleting TEntry 
and committed the 2.7 and 3.5 patches and tried to do the usual 3.5 to default 
forward merge in TortoiseHG.  I got

% hg merge --tool :merge --verbose 101861
resolving manifests
abort: case-folding collision between Lib/idlelib/pyshell.py and 
Lib/idlelib/PyShell.py
[command returned code 255 Fri Jun 10 22:33:09 2016]

This seems to be a known problem.  After some effort to resolve the situation, 
I gave up and used my replaced my repository with a copy of my backup copy, to 
undo the things I had tried.

Since the renames on 5/22, I have done other merges without problem, but I 
rechecked and none involved a file where case was the only difference. I will 
try again by temporarily renaming pyshell back to PyShell first.

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Serhiy Storchaka]

Serhiy Storchaka added the comment:

It would be better to exclude TEntry from the list. This is a hack, and as 
every hack it can be not fully compatible with future Tk versions.

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

I presume then that the tests pass on Linux with TEntry removed.  I take this 
as repudiation of the 'X11' behavior by the tk maintainers, and as support for 
changing the old widgets.  Having different paste behavior in text and entry 
widgets, or even different entry widgets (in the same release of IDLE, when 
some but not all 'Entry's have been converted) would be pretty bad.

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Serhiy Storchaka]

Serhiy Storchaka added the comment:

I deliberately omitted ttk.Entry, because it doesn't have special behavior on 
X11.

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

For 3.6, I added ttk.Entry to x11 fixer.  I expanded tests to Entry and 
Spinboxes.  I noted in a comment that tk.Entry/Spinbox, but not ttk.Entry, 
would not paste with generated <> event without a 0-length selection.  
This might be a glitch in tk, but pasting with line Entry worked fine.  Will 
attach 3.5 and 2.7 patches as well.

The 2.7 test results in ThemeChanged warnings when run as part of test_idle, 
but not when run alone.  I am ignoring this.

I will apply when tests run on x11.

--
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file43323/x11-paste-36.diff

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Terry J. Reedy]

Changes by Terry J. Reedy :


Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file43324/x11-paste-35.diff

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Terry J. Reedy]

Changes by Terry J. Reedy :


Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file43325/x11-paste-27.diff

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Serhiy Storchaka]

Serhiy Storchaka added the comment:

Tested. LGTM.

--
stage: patch review -> commit review

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

To avoid bloating pyshell.main further, and to facilitate testing, I put the 
new code in a separate function called from main and a test.  The test should 
PASS as is and FAIL on X11 with the call to fix_x11_paste commented out.  If it 
does not, it is not a test and should be modified. When we have a real test, I 
will apply.  x11-paste.diff is against 3.6.  I already have 2.7 and 3.5 
versions.

--
assignee:  -> terry.reedy
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file43303/x11-paste.diff

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily added the comment:

Terry, after the discussion I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other. 
 It seems that current X11 users expect the replace behavior, so option 4 seems 
fine to me.

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

I presume you mean option 4. I understand this to be what David and others 
expected.

Ned, what do you think now?  You were opposed 3 years ago, but we have a bit 
more evidence that the current behavior is out of whack with current Linux 
practice.  Should I ask for for linux experiences and opinions on python-ideas?

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Serhiy Storchaka]

Serhiy Storchaka added the comment:

I think it is better to fix this in all versions unconditionally.

This simple workaround is good enough for IDLE, but if add it as a part of 
Tkinter, it should be much more complex. I prefer to provide this as a recipe 
at http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/ .

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

I can't test but I looked at the patch.  It uses the new-to-me fact that bound 
'functions' can be tcl code in a string.  For me, root.bind_class('Text', 
'<>') returns the code string '\ntk_textPaste %W\n'.  Options for 
the patch:

0. Do nothing.
1. 3.6 as option (default TBD).
2. 3.6 as fixed change.
3. All versions as option (default TBD).
4. All versions as fixed change.

I have determined that adding new sections to config-main does not affect 
previous releases, so 1 and 3 are possible.  See the post I just made to #27099 
as to what is needed for new options.

For 1 and 3, there is the question of default - 'insert' versus 'replace', and 
for 3, whether it should be the same in all versions.  I don't think 'insert' 
and the option should stay around forever.

The question we need to think about is what would be best for beginners. The 
young but experienced Widows user, new to Linux, reported this to me as a bug 
that tripped her up a lot.

Serhiy, I think that this change, at least as an option, should be in tkinter, 
so as to make it more 'cross-platform'.  In the meantime, I will look at 
including this with the changes in #20799.

I am thinking about posting to python-ideas for other opinions on what to do in 
which package.

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Serhiy Storchaka]

Serhiy Storchaka added the comment:

Ping.

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Serhiy Storchaka]

Serhiy Storchaka added the comment:

Here is a patch that makes pasting text in all Text, Entry and Spinbox widgets 
to delete selection.

--
stage: test needed -> patch review
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file43195/idle_paste_replace.patch

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[R. David Murray]

R. David Murray added the comment:

Note that I would find it *very* confusing if the paste took place at some 
other location than the cursor location.  From Serhiy's description I don't 
think that's an issue in the proposed change.

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Serhiy Storchaka]

Serhiy Storchaka added the comment:

In modern text editors selecting text with a mouse moves text cursor, and 
moving the cursor by arrow keys cancels the selection (if Shift is not 
pressed). But in terminal emulators selecting text with a mouse doesn't move 
text cursor, and moving the cursor doesn't cancel the selection. This might be 
an initial reason for Tk behavior.

Since IDLE editor window is rather a text editor than a terminal emulator, I 
think 'replace' is more preferable. But I'm not so sure about IDLE shell window.

EditorWindow.text is not the only Text widget. There are many other Text and 
Entry widgets are created. We should change the behavior of all Text and Entry 
widgets globally. I'll try to write a patch.

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

Thank you David, that does help.  Your comment emphasizes that on other systems 
and many other X-11 apps, the user already chooses 'replace' versus 'insert' by 
selecting a replacement or not.   I presume the 'selection buffer' you refer to 
is different from the 'clipboard' (or whatever linux calls it).  Otherwise, 
Roger's patch would not work and I assume he tested it.

Simply applying Roger's patch, in 3.6, would be **MUCH** easier than adding a 
new option.  I could even add a line to the sign-on message: "Paste now 
replaces selected text.  Use undo to correct mistakes."

Assuming the patch does work, here is a workaround for releases that lack it. 
Create in Lib/idlelib a file called, for instance @MYPATCHES.txt and insert 
with the following, to remind what to do after upgrading to a new bugfix 
release.
---
To make paste replace selection, insert the following 3 lines at the top (after 
the def line) of EditorWindow.paste, about line 600, in file EditorWindow.py 
(3.5 and before) or editor.py (3.6 and after).

sel = self.text.tag_ranges("sel")
if sel:
self.text.delete(*sel)   # issue5124
---

Save and then follow the instruction to patch the editor file. If doing the 
edit in IDLE, hit F5 to test the patched EditorWindow.

--
versions: +Python 3.5, Python 3.6 -Python 3.3, Python 3.4

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[R. David Murray]

R. David Murray added the comment:

For what it is worth, as a dedicated X11 user, *if* the target is already 
hilighted by the application I expect the replace behavior.  But in my usage I 
never select the target myself, since that would replace my selection buffer.  
So in essence I'm seeing the "augment" behavior, but it's because I click to 
place the cursor where I want to paste, I don't select a target block to 
replace.

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

I just got a complaint from a Linux user who says IDLE is the only application 
she uses on Linux that has this augment rather than replace behavior.  She also 
uses IDLE on Windows, so this unique IDLE-Linux behavior is quite annoying.  
Replace at least needs to be an option.

Serhiy (or other current Linux user), what do you know about typical behavior 
on Linux today?

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Mark Lawrence]

Changes by Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk:


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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Mark Young]

Mark Young added the comment:

+1 at least providing the option. This behavior is obnoxious and weird (no 
other program on linux that I know of does this (not to say no such program 
exists)). If I didn't want the original gone, I wouldn't have highlighted it.

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily added the comment:

X11-based Tk follows general X11 practice with regard to text pasting.  See 
http://wiki.tcl.tk/3771 for some background.  Old school X11 users expect 
pasting to work that way.  This is yet another instance where Tk attempts to 
conform to the platform it is running on.  I recommend closing this issue as 
X11 Tk (and, hence, IDLE) has behaved like this forever and changing it would 
be painful for many current X11 IDLE users.

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Roger Serwy]

Roger Serwy added the comment:

There are many X11 applications that replace the selection with pasted text. 
GTK and Qt widgets behave that way. Here's a brief list: gedit (GTK), gummi 
(GTK), kate (Qt), texmaker (Qt).

Tkinter, for me, has become increasingly frustrating due to these subtle 
platform differences. (See #14146, #13582, and many more that deal with Tk on 
Mac.) For IDLE, I consider these behavior differences bugs.

The attached patch fixes this issue.

--
keywords: +patch
Added file: http://bugs.python.org/file30385/issue5124.patch

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Guilherme Simões]

Guilherme Simões added the comment:

I think IDLE should ignore general X11 practice. I used Linux for years and 
have never seen this behavior before because almost all programs behave in the 
Mac/Windows way.

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily added the comment:

Unfortunately, there is no one right answer to paste behavior on X11, unlike on 
native Windows and Mac implementations where there is essentially system-wide 
consistent paste behavior enforced by the underlying operating system.  As the 
Tk Wiki points out (and the comments hers concur), different users are going to 
have different expectations.  If we want to make this behavior available with 
X11 Tk, then it really should be a user configurable option.  Without providing 
an option, the overriding design principle is that the status quo wins a 
stalemate 
(http://www.boredomandlaziness.org/2011/02/status-quo-wins-stalemate.html).

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

I agree that the paste replace should be added as an option on linux, but 
without a broader survey of Linux Idle users to convince me otherwise, I have 
to agree that the default should stay as it is. I do not see any call to make 
the x11 behavior an option on mac and windows.

--
type: behavior - enhancement

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Todd Rovito]

Todd Rovito added the comment:

I haver verified Roger's patch does indeed fix the problem on Linux CentOS 6.4 
with IDLE 3.4.

The Linux situation is complex.  Basically as I see it over the years pure X11 
applications are becoming extinct and most developers either use GTK (for 
GNOME) or QT (for KDE). I don't blame anybody for moving to one of these 
toolkits because writing a pure X11 application is painful.  In the near future 
Wayland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server_protocol) will 
take over and I wonder how many X11 applications will actually be ported.  I 
agree with Roger we should try and make IDLE as consistent as possible across 
operating systems.  

+1 for applying the patch.

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Mark Lawrence]

Changes by Mark Lawrence breamore...@yahoo.co.uk:


--
nosy: +BreamoreBoy, roger.serwy, terry.reedy

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy added the comment:

On Win7, I get the replacement behavior. I get the same in Notepad and Firefox, 
so this may be standard Windows behavior. What is standard in other linex and 
mac apps? If the tk difference is a standard platform difference, I might think 
we should leave it alone.

--
nosy: +Todd.Rovito
stage:  - test needed
type:  - behavior
versions: +Python 2.7, Python 3.3, Python 3.4

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Todd Rovito]

Todd Rovito added the comment:

What is standard in other linex and mac apps?
-On Mac OS X 10.8.3 TextEdit I get the replacement behavior
-On Linux CentOS 6.4 gedit I get the replacement behavior
-On IDLE under the latest 3.4 pull I get the replacement behavior with Max OS X 
10.8.3
-On IDLE under the latest 3.4 pull I get the eggsspam behavior with Linux 
CentOS 6.4 as Weeble described in the original bug report

So from my perspective Linux is behaving differently than Windows and Mac OS X.

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Guilherme Polo]

Guilherme Polo ggp...@gmail.com added the comment:

btw, I just added a patch for issue3559 which could be easily adjusted
to work as described in this issue.

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Weeble]

New submission from Weeble clockworksa...@gmail.com:

Steps to reproduce:
1. Start IDLE.
2. Enter some text:

spam
eggs

3. Select the first line (spam) and press control+c to copy.
4. Select the second line (eggs) and press control+v to paste.

Expected result:

spam
spam

(With the caret at the end of the second line and no selection.)

Actual result (IDLE 2.6, Tk/Tcl 8.4, Linux):

spam
eggsspam

(With eggs selected and the caret at the end of the second line.)

I don't think this happens to me on Windows. It might be deliberate; I
know that Tk has slightly different behaviour on Windows and Linux. But
it doesn't seem to be consistent with other behaviour: for example, if
instead of pasting I start typing, the selected text is erased and the
typed text replaces it.

I can look into this myself, but I would appreciate if someone else can
confirm that this is not the expected behaviour, since perhaps it is
only my Windows background that leads me to expect this.

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components: IDLE
messages: 80914
nosy: weeble
severity: normal
status: open
title: IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

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[issue5124] IDLE - pasting text doesn't delete selection

[Guilherme Polo]

Guilherme Polo ggp...@gmail.com added the comment:

This is not really related to IDLE, it is how the Text widget behaves
under Linux, you will notice the same with tcl/tk 8.5.

Nevertheless, I would prefer to have the same results under Windows and
Linux.

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