Re: [python-committers] CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause)

2018-09-21 Thread Ethan Furman
On 09/21/2018 07:51 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Le 21/09/2018 à 14:45, Paul Moore a écrit : It's not likely to be a practical option on a mailing list, but in primary school (which the whole conversation felt like) a likely response would have been to put *everyone* involved in a time-out for a

Re: [python-committers] Fw: CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause)

2018-09-21 Thread Terry Reedy
On 9/21/2018 6:55 AM, Christian Heimes wrote: I don't understand why you are drawing the reverse conclusion here. Can you give me one concrete example, in which a French, German, or any other non-US American taboo was violated and not counteracted with swift reaction? Are you talking about

Re: [python-committers] CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause)

2018-09-21 Thread Carol Willing
> On Sep 21, 2018, at 10:51 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > > Le 21/09/2018 à 14:45, Paul Moore a écrit : >> >> It's not likely to be a practical option on a mailing list, but in >> primary school (which the whole conversation felt like) a likely >> response would have been to put *everyone*

Re: [python-committers] CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause)

2018-09-21 Thread Antoine Pitrou
Le 21/09/2018 à 14:45, Paul Moore a écrit : > > It's not likely to be a practical option on a mailing list, but in > primary school (which the whole conversation felt like) a likely > response would have been to put *everyone* involved in a time-out for > a period of cooling off, to think about

Re: [python-committers] Fwd: [Python-ideas] JS’ governance model is worth inspecting

2018-09-21 Thread Antoine Pitrou
Le 21/09/2018 à 16:35, Guido van Rossum a écrit : > Perhaps worth including in PEP 8002, the overview of other governance > models? (Though the process described here seems to be JS's equivalent > of our PEP process -- it doesn't say anything about how TC39 gets formed > or how non-technical

[python-committers] Fwd: [Python-ideas] JS’ governance model is worth inspecting

2018-09-21 Thread Guido van Rossum
Perhaps worth including in PEP 8002, the overview of other governance models? (Though the process described here seems to be JS's equivalent of our PEP process -- it doesn't say anything about how TC39 gets formed or how non-technical decisions are handled.) -- Forwarded message -

Re: [python-committers] CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause)

2018-09-21 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Sep 21, 2018, at 8:59 AM, Paul Moore wrote: > > On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 at 13:30, Donald Stufft wrote: >> So part of being and open and welcoming community, is knowing and >> understanding that words, images, etc like that can make people feel like >> we’re either a group that will

Re: [python-committers] 3.7.1 and 3.6.7 Releases Coming Soon

2018-09-21 Thread Ned Deily
On Sep 21, 2018, at 05:37, Christian Heimes wrote: > On 19/09/2018 23.12, Ned Deily wrote: >> Update: not surprisingly, there have been a number of issues that have >> popped up during and since the sprint that we would like to ensure are >> addressed in 3.7.1 and 3.6.7. In order to do so,

Re: [python-committers] CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause)

2018-09-21 Thread Paul Moore
On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 at 13:30, Donald Stufft wrote: > So part of being and open and welcoming community, is knowing and > understanding that words, images, etc like that can make people feel like > we’re either a group that will directly engage in those attacks that have > been associated with

Re: [python-committers] Fw: CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause)

2018-09-21 Thread Alexander Belopolsky
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 7:07 AM Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > I don't know of specifically French linguistic taboos, so I'm unable to > answer this. French culture generally doesn't ban words wholesale, even > when used in quotes. The very idea that you can't *quote* something > despicable is

Re: [python-committers] CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause)

2018-09-21 Thread Paul Moore
On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 at 13:26, Carol Willing wrote: > Context is important. I wonder though if the author's intent was constructive > comment... I'm sure it wasn't. But in context, it was a statement made in a thread that had long previously become nothing more than non-constructive invective.

Re: [python-committers] CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause)

2018-09-21 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Sep 21, 2018, at 8:01 AM, Paul Moore wrote: > > On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 at 12:38, Carol Willing wrote: > >> Much of the discussion here has focused on the use of a few words. >> >> IMHO, discussing violence, assault, and implying that its okay to accept and >> trivialize this violence do

Re: [python-committers] CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause)

2018-09-21 Thread Carol Willing
Hi Paul, Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Fear of speaking or fear of reading - both are not ideal. The balance of respectful discourse likely falls somewhere between the two. Context is important. I wonder though if the author's intent was constructive comment... On Fri, Sep 21, 2018, 8:01

Re: [python-committers] CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause)

2018-09-21 Thread Paul Moore
On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 at 12:38, Carol Willing wrote: > Much of the discussion here has focused on the use of a few words. > > IMHO, discussing violence, assault, and implying that its okay to accept and > trivialize this violence do not belong in posts about the Python language. > > From the

Re: [python-committers] Fw: CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause)

2018-09-21 Thread Paul Moore
On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 at 21:37, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > > Apparently it's this one: > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/2018-September/053482.html > > By the way, regardless of this single case, I would like people to think > of the broader issue we're having. It's more than a

Re: [python-committers] CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause)

2018-09-21 Thread Carol Willing
> On Sep 21, 2018, at 7:07 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > > Le 21/09/2018 à 12:55, Christian Heimes a écrit : >> On 21/09/2018 12.46, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >>> >>> Le 21/09/2018 à 02:06, Nathaniel Smith a écrit : Now sure, that taboo is an American thing, and I wouldn't support

Re: [python-committers] Fw: CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause)

2018-09-21 Thread Antoine Pitrou
Le 21/09/2018 à 13:06, Christian Heimes a écrit : > > In my opinion it's both wrong and unfair to compare the ban with > Anatoly's ban. For one we didn't have a process and general consent for > bans. AFAIK we still don't. I don't know where such a procedure is written out, and I don't

Re: [python-committers] Fw: CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause)

2018-09-21 Thread Antoine Pitrou
Le 21/09/2018 à 12:55, Christian Heimes a écrit : > On 21/09/2018 12.46, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> >> Le 21/09/2018 à 02:06, Nathaniel Smith a écrit : >>> Now sure, that taboo is an American thing, and I wouldn't support >>> automatically banning someone who used it in genuine ignorance, was >>>

Re: [python-committers] Fw: CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause)

2018-09-21 Thread Christian Heimes
On 20/09/2018 22.25, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm choosing to forward this to python-committers because I don't think > python-ideas is a reasonable place to discuss CoC decisions. > > I think the action taken by Brett (apparently decided with Titus and a > mysterious "conduct working

Re: [python-committers] Fw: CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause)

2018-09-21 Thread Donald Stufft
> On Sep 21, 2018, at 6:55 AM, Christian Heimes wrote: > > I don't understand why you are drawing the reverse conclusion here. Can > you give me one concrete example, in which a French, German, or any > other non-US American taboo was violated and not counteracted with swift > reaction?

Re: [python-committers] Fw: CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause)

2018-09-21 Thread Christian Heimes
On 21/09/2018 12.46, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > Le 21/09/2018 à 02:06, Nathaniel Smith a écrit : >> Now sure, that taboo is an American thing, and I wouldn't support >> automatically banning someone who used it in genuine ignorance, was >> repentant when they realized what they'd done, etc. > >

Re: [python-committers] Fw: CoC violation (was: Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause)

2018-09-21 Thread Antoine Pitrou
Le 21/09/2018 à 02:06, Nathaniel Smith a écrit : > Now sure, that taboo is an American thing, and I wouldn't support > automatically banning someone who used it in genuine ignorance, was > repentant when they realized what they'd done, etc. So why are American taboos specifically forbidden, and

Re: [python-committers] 3.7.1 and 3.6.7 Releases Coming Soon

2018-09-21 Thread Christian Heimes
On 19/09/2018 23.12, Ned Deily wrote: > Update: not surprisingly, there have been a number of issues that have popped > up during and since the sprint that we would like to ensure are addressed in > 3.7.1 and 3.6.7. In order to do so, I've been holding off on starting the > releases. I think