Cosmin Stejerean writes:
> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > We're Python programmers. We're used to people telling us our
> > tool is too slow. We just say it does the job superbly and it's
> > usually fast enough. :)
> I don't agree with complet
Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
Yes, Python is fast enough most of the time, but when it's not
we put a lot of effort into making it faster. That's why we have a good
collection of modules with C extensions to speed up computationally
intensive applications
So the Pythonic solution is, of course, t
OK, I give: git is in the running. But do realize it will take a lot
for it to beat out bzr or hg.
I have emailed some people who have shown allegiance to a specific
DVCS to seeif they are willing to fill in the usage scenarios for me
along with converting the dev FAQ so that we all have a clear w
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 13:28, Nick Coghlan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ralf Schmitt wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Georg Brandl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Ralf Schmitt schrieb:
I think you really should not exclude any dvcs based on it's
implementation language.
I.e.
> Also, something that should be done for ANY candidate VCS: translate the
> current Python developer FAQ to give the appropriate answers for the
> candidate VCS.
What I would like to see for at least the favored system: provide a demo
installation that is complete in the sense that immediate swit
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 5:31 AM, Leonardo Santagada <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Nov 4, 2008, at 12:11 AM, Josiah Carlson wrote:
>
>> There is no shortage of algorithms (such as matrix multiplication) that
>> are parallelizable but not particularly good candidates for an IPC-based
>> multiproce
Stefan Behnel wrote:
I think the main advantage for stdlib modules is actually the maintenance
cost. Having a single, easy-to-read code base for extension modules that
compiles without modification in Py2.6/7 and Py3.0/3.1 (and 2.3, 2.4 and 2.5),
makes life a lot easier for both maintainers and
Ralf Schmitt wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Georg Brandl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Ralf Schmitt schrieb:
>>> I think you really should not exclude any dvcs based on it's
>>> implementation language.
>>> I.e. requiring it being written in python for the sake of "eating your
>>> own dog
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:33 PM, Tim Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Whenever
> two digits are multiplied, the code intends to cast (at least) one of
> them to "twodigits" first (if you ever see a spot where this doesn't
> happen, it's a bug). "twodigits" is typedef'ed to C long. C89
> guarant
> The project has made inclusion into Python's stdlib a goal right from the
> beginning.
Ah, that changes my view of it significantly. If the authors want to
contribute it to Python some day, I'm looking forward to that (assuming
that they then close their official branch, and make the version ins
> any clues? how can i go around this?
What Nick said. Run it in a debugger, set a breakpoint on the failing
system call, and triple check that the arguments you are passing are
really the ones that you want to pass. Are you sure the current
directory is what you think it is? Are you sure that the
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> OTOH, it should be no big deal to drop a zip archive of the GMP
> >> sources which correspond to the code bound into the DLL.
>
> Martin> How would end users then extract the sources from the DLL? How
> Martin> would they learn that they even have them
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>> - Option 2: only distribute generated source files
> >>> -- developers still need to have Cython installed
> >>> -- you have to trust Cython; who will really review the generated
> code?
> >>
> >> Who reviews the machine code from gcc?
>
> G
-> >> but obviously any choice would have to be a good one.
-> >> [...] So, the question I see isn't if Cython should be
-> >> allowed for standard library modules, but if the landscape of such
-> >> solutions is at a point that any of them is ready to be committed to.
->
-> Well, we had reports
Gerhard Häring wrote:
> Cython is still being worked on (intensively, it seems). Bundling it
> with Python means deciding on a particular version probably for an
> entire major release lifecycle (use Cython x.y.{newest} for Python 2.7,
> for example).
Yes, that is definitely an issue. Cython is he
About 31, 32, 63 or 64 bits: I guess that you want to avoid integer overflow.
Intel has an "overflow" flag, changed for all instructions. For other CPUs,
you can use emulate this flag. Example with the type int that I used in my
GMP patch:
Add:
int a, b, sum;
sum = a + b;
exact = ((a < 0)
On 2008-11-04 18:38, Victor Stinner wrote:
> Le Monday 03 November 2008 18:56:37 Paul Miller, vous avez écrit :
>> Rather than that, what about patching Python's long implementation
>> to use GMP if it's available, and the default implementation if not?
>
> Yes, I like this suggestion of two flav
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On Nov 4, 2008, at 8:30 AM, Dennis Benzinger wrote:
Am 03.11.2008 17:54, Thomas Wouters schrieb:
[...]
FWIW, I put one up this weekend, and it seems to be intact and OK.
(bzr+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/python/2.6/ or
http://code.python.org/python/2.6/
Hey, Mark -- let's establish some background here first. It's a fact
that the product of two N-bit integers can require 2N bits, and also a
fact that lots of HW supports NxN->2N bit integer multiplication
directly.
However, it's unfortunately also a fact that standard C has no
corresponding conce
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On Nov 4, 2008, at 1:21 PM, Cosmin Stejerean wrote:
I don't agree with completely dismissing performance just because it's
Python. Yes, Python is fast enough most of the time, but when it's
not we
put a lot of effort into making it faster. That's
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Barry Warsaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
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>
> On Nov 4, 2008, at 1:00 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
> This is true. Performance is not everything to everyone. Most Bazaar
>> users don't care at all; they say thi
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On Nov 4, 2008, at 1:00 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
This is true. Performance is not everything to everyone. Most Bazaar
users don't care at all; they say things like "who cares about a few
seconds in bzr log when it gets the merge right almost
Gustavo Niemeyer writes:
> Both arguments strike me as odd.
I'm an odd fellow, what can I say?
> Having the *option* to leave your history on the server shouldn't
> be a problem, right?
Only if you later try to use it.
> The same goes for (1): having more ways to use the tool isn't
> exac
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Georg Brandl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ralf Schmitt schrieb:
>> I think you really should not exclude any dvcs based on it's
>> implementation language.
>> I.e. requiring it being written in python for the sake of "eating your
>> own dogfood" is just a very weak a
Ralf Schmitt schrieb:
> On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 1:05 AM, Brett Cannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I have started the DVCS PEP which can be seen at
>> http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dg7fctr4_40dvjkdg64 . Not much is there
>> beyond the rationale, usage scenarios I plan to use, and what other
>> sect
Le Monday 03 November 2008 18:56:37 Paul Miller, vous avez écrit :
> Rather than that, what about patching Python's long implementation
> to use GMP if it's available, and the default implementation if not?
Yes, I like this suggestion of two flavors. Python with GMP and Python without
GMP (built
2008/11/4 Gustavo Niemeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> How large? Which repositories? Which operations? Which version of Bazaar?
As large as the Python repository. The Python repository (:-)). Local
clone of the repo, when not using a shared repository (I know, "don't
do that" - but it is neverthele
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On Nov 4, 2008, at 9:01 AM, Thomas Wouters wrote:
Nope, I have no idea how to edit those pages properly, sorry. I'm
sure somebarryone does.
I do. I've been meaning to update those pages to mention loggerhead
too. I'll try to do that today.
> Trying to expand our buildbot infrastructure to accept patches to test
> out or some patch queue manager might be nice, but I want to be
> realistic with what we have now. That's why I am not worrying about
> this email feature; until I know that we will actually use it and have
> the manpower to
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On Nov 4, 2008, at 12:21 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
(2) New repo formats are added frequently, and taking advantage of new
features often requires upgrading your repo format. So-called
lightweight checkouts can be especially annoying as t
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 14:30, Dennis Benzinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
> Hi Thomas!
>
> Am 03.11.2008 17:54, Thomas Wouters schrieb:
> > [...]
> > FWIW, I put one up this weekend, and it seems to be intact and OK.
> > (bzr+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/python/2.6/ or
> > http://code.python.org/python/
Hello Stephen,
> I haven't used Bazaar beyond "bzr pull" of Mailman once a week or so,
> so I don't dislike it. Things I have observed or have seen discussed
> on the bazaar mailing list that you might want to consider:
> (1) The UI is as baroque as git's, once you consider all the plugins
>a
On Nov 4, 2008, at 12:11 AM, Josiah Carlson wrote:
There is no shortage of algorithms (such as matrix multiplication)
that are parallelizable but not particularly good candidates for an
IPC-based multiprocessing paradigm.
Ahh, but those algorithms aren't going to be written in Python; they
Hi Thomas!
Am 03.11.2008 17:54, Thomas Wouters schrieb:
> [...]
> FWIW, I put one up this weekend, and it seems to be intact and OK.
> (bzr+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/python/2.6/ or
> http://code.python.org/python/2.6/ )
> [...]
Can you update http://www.python.org/dev/bazaar/ ?
For example "Branch
>> OTOH, it should be no big deal to drop a zip archive of the GMP
>> sources which correspond to the code bound into the DLL.
Martin> How would end users then extract the sources from the DLL? How
Martin> would they learn that they even have them in the first place?
I think you
Thomas Wouters writes:
> Ah, but not true according to who? [...]
> It is certainly the case that such a combination is enough to scare
> off corporate lawyers who aren't sure either (most of them, I bet)
> and would advise against using that build of Python because of the
> LGPL components.
2008/11/4 Greg Ewing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Martin v. Löwis wrote:
>>
>> you *will* have to ship gmp.dll to your users, as well ... So then
>
>> you have to include the source (of GMP
>
> Are you sure? I thought the source-provision requirements
> of the *GPL licences only apply when you distribute
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
you *will* have to ship gmp.dll to your users, as well ... So then
> you have to include the source (of GMP
Are you sure? I thought the source-provision requirements
of the *GPL licences only apply when you distribute a
*modified* version of something. Here you're just sh
[Martin v. Löwis]
> Perhaps Tim Peters should also comment here - but if you can come up
> with a patch that does that in a portable way, I would be in favor.
> The challenge, ISTM, is to make it still compile on all systems
> (regardless of how inefficient it might be on minor platforms).
I've ju
On 02:47 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I disagree. They should be removed when the issue they refer to is
removed. No sooner, no later. Simply removing every XXX comment older
than a year would not be helpful. The code base is so large that over
2000 XXX doesn't faze me particular. There are over
On 3 Nov, 11:44 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Benjamin Peterson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Grepping through Python's sources tells me that we have over 2,000
"XXX" comments.
So, I propose that we adopt a policy similar to Twisted's: All "XXX"
comments must have
>>> Is using Cython for anything in Modules/ really an option? In my limited
>>> experiments with it, I did like it.
>>>
>>> But using it for Python standard library stuff doesn't look quite right to
>>> me:
>>>
>>> - Option 1: distribute Cython with Python and integrate into build process
>>> -- O
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 07:04, "Martin v. Löwis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I see that Guido is not keen on the idea, and I'm not sure my
> > observations help sway things one way or the other. OTOH, it would be
> > nice if at least we always add our own identifier (initials, nick, email
> > a
Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Benjamin Peterson
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Grepping through Python's sources tells me that we have over 2,000
>> "XXX" comments. The thing that irks me about them is that the have a
>> very slow rate of being resolved, since they usua
adrian golding wrote:
> hi all,
>
> (benjamin and nick thank you!) i have another question to ask something
> about permissions for the python interpreter. in my earlier post, i was
> saying i want to measure the python script before it is parsed. what
> happens is that i will write the measurem
On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 07:32, Stephen J. Turnbull <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
> "Martin v. Löwis" writes:
> > Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> > > Thomas Wouters writes:
> > >
> > > > Neither of those (shipping sources or dynamically linking to
> > > > GMP) would solve the LGPL issue. People who
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
On Windows, the GMP binaries would be incorporated into pythonxy.dll.
This would force anybody providing a copy of pythonxy.dll to also
provide the sources of GMP.
I thought the suggestion was to provide a way of optionally
compiling Python to use GMP. The standard Pytho
Brett Cannon wrote:
I have yet to have met anyone who thinks git is great while having
used another DVCS as extensively (and I mean I have never found
someone who has used two DVCSs extensively).
It's entirely possible that there's only room for one
VCS at a time in the average human brain. I
C. Titus Brown wrote:
Cython is a non-backwards-compatible fork of Pyrex, forked for the usual
reasons [0].
As I see it, there are two main reasons for the fork:
(1) I prefer to develop slowly and carefully, whereas the
Cython people like to rush ahead and try out wild ideas.
(2) There's a d
hi all,
(benjamin and nick thank you!) i have another question to ask something
about permissions for the python interpreter. in my earlier post, i was
saying i want to measure the python script before it is parsed. what
happens is that i will write the measurement of that script file to another
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