Re: [Python-Dev] Problem with svn on community buildbot

2008-12-13 Thread Martin v. Löwis
> svn: PROPFIND of '/projects/python/branches/release25-maint': Could not > resolve hostname `svn.python.org': Temporary failure in name resolution > (http://svn.python.org) > > Any idea what the problem might be? Well - can you resolve `svn.python.org' on that machine (e.g. when using ping

[Python-Dev] Problem with svn on community buildbot

2008-12-13 Thread skip
I have a community buildbot: http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/community/all/g5%20OSX%202.5/builds/14/step-svn/0 which is failing the svn checkout of the 2.5 branch: svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/projects/python/branches/release25-maint' svn: PROPFIND of '/projects/python/branc

Re: [Python-Dev] [ANN] Python 2.4.6 and 2.5.3, release candidate 1

2008-12-13 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Christian Heimes wrote: > Martin v. Löwis schrieb: >> 2.5.3 is the last bug fix release of Python 2.5. Future 2.5.x releases >> will only include security fixes. According to the release notes, over >> 100 bugs and patches have been addressed since Python 2.5.1, many of >

Re: [Python-Dev] beginning developer: fastest way to learn how Python 3.0 works

2008-12-13 Thread Martin v. Löwis
> Maybe this is the correct list, as my inquiry is about how to learn > how the current implementation works so that I could consider how to > implement new features. > > So, here's a modified question: If you want to learn how python works > (not how to program in the python language), what's a p

Re: [Python-Dev] The endless GIL debate: why not remove thread support instead?

2008-12-13 Thread Martin v. Löwis
> If I remember correctly (when threading was invented in the mid-1980s) > threads were originally described as "lightweight processes". According to http://www.serpentine.com/blog/threads-faq/the-history-of-threads/ that's when threads where *reinvented*. They were originally invented in 1965,

Re: [Python-Dev] [ANN] Python 2.4.6 and 2.5.3, release candidate 1

2008-12-13 Thread Christian Heimes
Martin v. Löwis schrieb: > 2.5.3 is the last bug fix release of Python 2.5. Future 2.5.x releases > will only include security fixes. According to the release notes, over > 100 bugs and patches have been addressed since Python 2.5.1, many of

Re: [Python-Dev] Reindenting the C code base?

2008-12-13 Thread Miguel Lobo
> I think we should not do this. We should use 4 space indents for new > files, but existing files should not be reindented. If you reindent, > much of the history of the file is essentially lost -- "svn blame" > will blame whoever reindented the code, and it's a pain to go back. I believe "svn bl

[Python-Dev] [ANN] Python 2.4.6 and 2.5.3, release candidate 1

2008-12-13 Thread Martin v. Löwis
On behalf of the Python development team and the Python community, I'm happy to announce the release candidates of Python 2.4.6 and 2.5.3. 2.5.3 is the last bug fix release of Python 2.5. Future 2.5.x releases will only include security fixes. According to the release notes, over 100 bugs and patc

Re: [Python-Dev] Reindenting the C code base?

2008-12-13 Thread Antoine Pitrou
Guido van Rossum python.org> writes: > > I think we should not do this. We should use 4 space indents for new > files, but existing files should not be reindented. Well, right now many files are indented with a mix of spaces and tabs, depending on who did the edit and how their editor was config

Re: [Python-Dev] Reindenting the C code base?

2008-12-13 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 1:22 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > I remember there were some talks of reindenting the C code base (from tabs to > 4-space indents) after py3k is released, but I can't find the discussion > thread > again. Was a decision ever taken about it? I think we should not do this. W

[Python-Dev] Reindenting the C code base?

2008-12-13 Thread Antoine Pitrou
Hello, I remember there were some talks of reindenting the C code base (from tabs to 4-space indents) after py3k is released, but I can't find the discussion thread again. Was a decision ever taken about it? Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing l

Re: [Python-Dev] beginning developer: fastest way to learn how Python 3.0 works

2008-12-13 Thread Terry Reedy
Roy Lowrance wrote: Maybe this is the correct list, as my inquiry is about how to learn how the current implementation works so that I could consider how to implement new features. So, here's a modified question: If you want to learn how python works (not how to program in the python language),

Re: [Python-Dev] beginning developer: fastest way to learn how Python 3.0 works

2008-12-13 Thread Roy Lowrance
Maybe this is the correct list, as my inquiry is about how to learn how the current implementation works so that I could consider how to implement new features. So, here's a modified question: If you want to learn how python works (not how to program in the python language), what's a productive wa

Re: [Python-Dev] beginning developer: fastest way to learn how Python 3.0 works

2008-12-13 Thread Aahz
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008, Roy Lowrance wrote: > > What's the best way to learn how Python 3.0 works? Post to the correct mailing list. ;-) Use comp.lang.python or python-tutor or python-help python-dev is for people creating new versions of Python -- Aahz (a...@pythoncraft.com) <*>

Re: [Python-Dev] Python-3.0, unicode, and os.environ

2008-12-13 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 06:33:28 pm Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > Also interesting, if you point your browser at: > http://toshio.fedorapeople.org/u/ > > You should see two other test files. They're both > (one-half)(enyei).html but one's encoded in utf-8 and the other in > latin-1. For what it's worth

Re: [Python-Dev] The endless GIL debate: why not remove thread support instead?

2008-12-13 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 9:13 AM, Christian Heimes wrote: > Steve Holden schrieb: >> If I remember correctly (when threading was invented in the mid-1980s) >> threads were originally described as "lightweight processes". The >> perceived advantage at the time was the ability to have multiple thread

Re: [Python-Dev] The endless GIL debate: why not remove thread support instead?

2008-12-13 Thread Christian Heimes
Steve Holden schrieb: > If I remember correctly (when threading was invented in the mid-1980s) > threads were originally described as "lightweight processes". The > perceived advantage at the time was the ability to have multiple threads > of control with shared memory: this was much faster than th

[Python-Dev] beginning developer: fastest way to learn how Python 3.0 works

2008-12-13 Thread Roy Lowrance
I'd like to learn how Python 3.0 works. I've downloaded the svn. I am wondering what the best way to learn is: - Just jump in? - Or perhaps learn A before B? - Or maybe there is a tutorial for those new to the internals? What's the best way to learn how Python 3.0 works? Roy

Re: [Python-Dev] Psyco for -OO or -O

2008-12-13 Thread William Dode
On 13-12-2008, Michael Foord wrote: > Lie Ryan wrote: >> I'm sure probably most of you knows about psyco[1], the optimizer. Python >> has an -O and -OO flag that is intended to be optimization flag, but we >> know that currently it doesn't do much. Why not add psyco as standard >> library and le

Re: [Python-Dev] The endless GIL debate: why not remove thread support instead?

2008-12-13 Thread Steve Holden
If I remember correctly (when threading was invented in the mid-1980s) threads were originally described as "lightweight processes". The perceived advantage at the time was the ability to have multiple threads of control with shared memory: this was much faster than the available inter-process comm

Re: [Python-Dev] The endless GIL debate: why not remove thread support instead?

2008-12-13 Thread Guido van Rossum
Yes, this is what threads were designed for. As an abstraction to have multiple "threads of control" on a *single* processor (in a single process). The whole multi-core business came decades later. (Classic multi-processors have something called threads too, but they, too, came later than the origi

Re: [Python-Dev] Psyco for -OO or -O

2008-12-13 Thread Lie Ryan
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 13:28:37 +, Michael Foord wrote: > Lie Ryan wrote: >> I'm sure probably most of you knows about psyco[1], the optimizer. >> Python has an -O and -OO flag that is intended to be optimization flag, >> but we know that currently it doesn't do much. Why not add psyco as >> stan

Re: [Python-Dev] The endless GIL debate: why not remove thread support instead?

2008-12-13 Thread Michael Foord
Lennart Regebro wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 02:13, Sturla Molden wrote: I genuinely think the use of threads should be discouraged. It leads to code that are full of bugs and difficult to maintain - race conditions, deadlocks, and livelocks are common pitfalls. The use of threads f

Re: [Python-Dev] Psyco for -OO or -O

2008-12-13 Thread Michael Foord
Lie Ryan wrote: I'm sure probably most of you knows about psyco[1], the optimizer. Python has an -O and -OO flag that is intended to be optimization flag, but we know that currently it doesn't do much. Why not add psyco as standard library and let -O or -OO invoke psyco? This really belong