On 04:56 am, p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
At 03:58 AM 4/17/2009 +, gl...@divmod.com wrote:
Just as a use-case: would the Java "com.*" namespace be an example of
a "pure package with no base"? i.e. lots of projects are in it, but
no project owns it?
Er, I suppose. I was thinking more of
On 16 Apr, 2009, at 20:58, Russell Owen wrote:
I installed the Mac binary on my Intel 10.5.6 system and it works,
except it still uses Apple's system Tcl/Tk 8.4.7 instead of my
ActiveState 8.4.19 (which is in /Library/Frameworks where one would
expect).
That's very string. I had ActiveSt
At 03:58 AM 4/17/2009 +, gl...@divmod.com wrote:
Just as a use-case: would the Java "com.*" namespace be an example
of a "pure package with no base"? i.e. lots of projects are in it,
but no project owns it?
Er, I suppose. I was thinking more of the various 'com.foo' and
'org.bar' packag
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
it should be obvious in the
same way that string concatenation is different from numerical
addition:
1 + 2 = 2 + 1
'1' + '2' != '2' + '1'
However, the proposed arithmetic isn't just non-
commutative, it's non-associative, which is a
much rarer and more surprising thing
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
"2rd of March on leap years,
^^^
The turd of March?
--
Greg
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On 16 Apr, 03:36 pm, p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
At 03:46 AM 4/16/2009 +, gl...@divmod.com wrote:
On 15 Apr, 09:11 pm, p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
Twisted has its own system for "namespace" packages, and I'm not
really sure where we fall in this discussion. I haven't been able to
fo
In article ,
Russell Owen wrote:
> I installed the Mac binary on my Intel 10.5.6 system and it works,
> except it still uses Apple's system Tcl/Tk 8.4.7 instead of my
> ActiveState 8.4.19 (which is in /Library/Frameworks where one would
> expect).
>
> I just built python from source and th
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:10:59 pm Tennessee Leeuwenburg wrote:
> Actually, that's a point.
>
> If its' the 31st of Jan, then +1 monthdelta will be 28 Feb and
> another +1 will be 28 March whereas 31st Jan +2 monthdeltas will be
> 31 March.
>
> That's the kind of thing which really needs to be documen
Tennessee> If its' the 31st of Jan, then +1 monthdelta will be 28 Feb
Tennessee> and another +1 will be 28 March whereas 31st Jan +2
Tennessee> monthdeltas will be 31 March.
Other possible arithmetics:
* 31 Jan 2008 + monthdelta(2) might be
31 Jan 2008 + 31 days (# days i
Jess> If, on the other hand, one of the committers wants to toss this in
Jess> at some point, whether now or 3 versions down the road, the patch
Jess> is up at bugs.python.org (and I'm happy to make any suggested
Jess> modifications).
Again, I think it needs to bake a bit. I unde
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:47:14 am Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Jess Austin gmail.com> writes:
> > What other behavior options besides "last-valid-day-of-the-month"
> > would you like to see?
>
> IMHO, the question is rather what the use case is for the behaviour
> you are proposing. In which kind of situ
On 16 Apr, 11:11 pm, f...@fuhm.net wrote:
On Apr 16, 2009, at 5:47 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
It's a human-interface operation, and as such, everyone (ahem) "knows
what it means" to say "2 months from now", but the details don't
usually have to be thought about too much. Of course when you ha
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:29:11 pm Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Adding one month to 31st January could mean:
>
> 1: raise an exception
> 2: return 28th February (last day of February)
> 3: return 3rd April (1 month = 31 days)
> 4: return 2nd April (1 month = 30 days)
> 5: return 28th February (1 month =
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:41:19 am Jess Austin wrote:
> Others have suggested raising an exception when a month calculation
> lands on an invalid date. Python already has that; it's spelled like
>
> this:
> >>> dt = date(2008, 1, 31)
> >>> dt.replace(month=dt.month + 1)
>
> Traceback (most recent ca
Actually, that's a point.
If its' the 31st of Jan, then +1 monthdelta will be 28 Feb and another +1
will be 28 March whereas 31st Jan +2 monthdeltas will be 31 March.
That's the kind of thing which really needs to be documented, or I think
people really will make mistakes.
For example, should a
Jess Austin wrote:
This is a perceptive observation: in the absence of parentheses to
dictate a different order of operations, the third quantity will
differ from the second.
Another aspect of this is the use case mentioned right
at the beginning of this discussion concerning a recurring
event
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 7:18 PM, wrote:
>
> >> I have this funny feeling that arithmetic using monthdelta wouldn't
> >> always be intuitive.
>
> Jess> I think that's true, especially since these calculations are not
> Jess> necessarily invertible:
>
> >>> date(2008, 1, 30) + monthd
My thoughts on balance regarding monthdeltas:
-- Month operations are useful, people will want to do them
-- I think having a monthdelta object rather than a method makes sense to
me
-- I think the documentation is severely underdone. The functionality is
not intuitive
and therefore the
>> I have this funny feeling that arithmetic using monthdelta wouldn't
>> always be intuitive.
Jess> I think that's true, especially since these calculations are not
Jess> necessarily invertible:
>>> date(2008, 1, 30) + monthdelta(1)
datetime.date(2008, 2, 29)
>>> dat
On Apr 16, 2009, at 5:47 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
IMHO, the question is rather what the use case is for the behaviour
you are
proposing. In which kind of situation is it acceptable to turn 31/2
silently
into 29/2?
Essentially any situation in which you'd actually want a "next month"
oper
Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Jess Austin gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> What other behavior options besides "last-valid-day-of-the-month"
>> would you like to see?
>
> IMHO, the question is rather what the use case is for the behaviour you are
> proposing. In which kind of situation is it acceptable to turn
On 2009-04-16 17:17, Paul Moore wrote:
2009/4/16 Robert Kern:
from dateutil.relativedelta import *
dt = relativedelta(months=1)
dt
relativedelta(months=+1)
from datetime import datetime
datetime(2009, 1, 15) + dt
datetime.datetime(2009, 2, 15, 0, 0)
datetime(2009, 1, 31) + dt
datetime.dat
2009/4/16 Robert Kern :
> On 2009-04-16 13:42, Paul Moore wrote:
>>
>> 2009/4/16 Ned Deily:
>>>
>>> In article
>>> ,
>>> Jess Austin wrote:
I'm new to python core development, and I've been advised to write to
python-dev concerning a feature/patch I've placed at
http://bugs.py
Jess Austin wrote:
What other behavior options besides "last-valid-day-of-the-month"
would you like to see?
- Add 30 days to the source date.
I'm sure there are others.
Followups to python-ideas.
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Jess Austin gmail.com> writes:
>
> What other behavior options besides "last-valid-day-of-the-month"
> would you like to see?
IMHO, the question is rather what the use case is for the behaviour you are
proposing. In which kind of situation is it acceptable to turn 31/2 silently
into 29/2?
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Jon Ribbens wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 12:10:36PM +0400, Oleg Broytmann wrote:
>> > This patch adds a "monthdelta" class and a "monthmod" function to the
>> > datetime module. The monthdelta class is much like the existing
>> > timedelta class, except that it represents months offset from a
Jared Grubb wrote:
> On 16 Apr 2009, at 11:42, Paul Moore wrote:
>> The key thing missing (I believe) from dateutil is any equivalent of
>> monthmod.
>
>
> I agree with that. It's well-defined and it makes a lot of sense. +1
>
> But, I dont think monthdelta can be made to work... what should the
>
On 2009-04-16 13:42, Paul Moore wrote:
2009/4/16 Ned Deily:
In article
,
Jess Austin wrote:
I'm new to python core development, and I've been advised to write to
python-dev concerning a feature/patch I've placed at
http://bugs.python.org/issue5434, with Rietveld at
http://codereview.appspot.
On 16 Apr 2009, at 11:42, Paul Moore wrote:
The key thing missing (I believe) from dateutil is any equivalent of
monthmod.
I agree with that. It's well-defined and it makes a lot of sense. +1
But, I dont think monthdelta can be made to work... what should the
following be?
print(date(200
I installed the Mac binary on my Intel 10.5.6 system and it works,
except it still uses Apple's system Tcl/Tk 8.4.7 instead of my
ActiveState 8.4.19 (which is in /Library/Frameworks where one would
expect).
I just built python from source and that version does use ActiveState
8.4.19.
I
Thanks for everyone's comments!
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Paul Moore wrote:
> I like the idea in principle. In practice, of course, month
> calculations are inherently ill-defined, so you need to be very
> specific in documenting all of the edge cases, and you should have
> strong use case
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 5:16 AM, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 11:54, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc
> wrote:
>> In my opinion:
>> arithmetic with months is a mess. There is no such "month interval" or
>> "year interval" with a precise definition.
>> If we adopt some kind of month manip
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 4:54 AM, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc
wrote:
> FWIW, the Oracle database has two methods for adding months:
> 1- the add_months() function
> add_months(to_date('31-jan-2005'), 1)
> 2- the ANSI interval:
> to_date('31-jan-2005') + interval '1' month
>
> "add_months" is calenda
2009/4/16 Ned Deily :
> In article
> ,
> Jess Austin wrote:
>> I'm new to python core development, and I've been advised to write to
>> python-dev concerning a feature/patch I've placed at
>> http://bugs.python.org/issue5434, with Rietveld at
>> http://codereview.appspot.com/25079.
>
> Without ha
2009/4/16 Antoine Pitrou :
> Paul Moore gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> Oh, certainly! But in the absence of "intuitive", I've found in the
>> past that "standardised" is often better than nothing (For
>> example, I use Oracle's add_months function fairly often - it's not
>> perfect, and not always intu
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 3:45 AM, wrote:
> >>> date(2008, 1, 30) + monthdelta(1)
> datetime.date(2008, 2, 29)
>
> What would this loop would print?
>
> for d in range(1, 32):
> print date(2008, 1, d) + monthdelta(1)
>>> for d in range(1, 32):
... print(date(2008, 1, d) + mont
In article
,
Jess Austin wrote:
> I'm new to python core development, and I've been advised to write to
> python-dev concerning a feature/patch I've placed at
> http://bugs.python.org/issue5434, with Rietveld at
> http://codereview.appspot.com/25079.
Without having looked at the code, I wonder
At 03:46 AM 4/16/2009 +, gl...@divmod.com wrote:
On 15 Apr, 09:11 pm, p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
I think that there is some confusion here. A "main" package or
buildout that assembles a larger project from components is not the
same thing as having a "base" package for a namespace pack
Paul Moore gmail.com> writes:
>
> Oh, certainly! But in the absence of "intuitive", I've found in the
> past that "standardised" is often better than nothing (For
> example, I use Oracle's add_months function fairly often - it's not
> perfect, and not always intuitive, but at least it's well-def
2009/4/16 :
> >>> date(2008, 1, 30) + monthdelta(1)
> datetime.date(2008, 2, 29)
>
> What would this loop would print?
>
> for d in range(1, 32):
> print date(2008, 1, d) + monthdelta(1)
>
> I have this funny feeling that arithmetic using monthdelta wouldn't always
> be intuitive.
2009/4/16 Jess Austin :
> I'm new to python core development, and I've been advised to write to
> python-dev concerning a feature/patch I've placed at
> http://bugs.python.org/issue5434, with Rietveld at
> http://codereview.appspot.com/25079.
>
> This patch adds a "monthdelta" class and a "monthmod
On 15 Apr, 2009, at 22:47, Russell E. Owen wrote:
Thank you for 2.6.2.
I see the Mac binary installer isn't out yet (at least it is not
listed
on the downloads page). Any chance that it will be compatible with 3rd
party Tcl/Tk?
The Mac installer is late because I missed the pre-announceme
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 12:10:36PM +0400, Oleg Broytmann wrote:
> > This patch adds a "monthdelta" class and a "monthmod" function to the
> > datetime module. The monthdelta class is much like the existing
> > timedelta class, except that it represents months offset from a date,
> > rather than an
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 11:54, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc wrote:
> In my opinion:
> arithmetic with months is a mess. There is no such "month interval" or
> "year interval" with a precise definition.
> If we adopt some kind of month manipulation, it should be a function
> or a method, like you would do
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 10:45, wrote:
> >>> date(2008, 1, 30) + monthdelta(1)
> datetime.date(2008, 2, 29)
>
> What would this loop would print?
>
> for d in range(1, 32):
> print date(2008, 1, d) + monthdelta(1)
>
> I have this funny feeling that arithmetic using monthdelta would
On Apr 16, 2009, at 1:10 AM, Oleg Broytmann wrote:
This patch adds a "monthdelta" class and a "monthmod" function to the
datetime module. The monthdelta class is much like the existing
timedelta class, except that it represents months offset from a date,
rather than an exact period offset from a
>>> date(2008, 1, 30) + monthdelta(1)
datetime.date(2008, 2, 29)
What would this loop would print?
for d in range(1, 32):
print date(2008, 1, d) + monthdelta(1)
I have this funny feeling that arithmetic using monthdelta wouldn't always
be intuitive.
Skip
On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 01:18:01AM -0500, Jess Austin wrote:
> I'm new to python core development, and I've been advised to write to
> python-dev concerning a feature/patch I've placed at
> http://bugs.python.org/issue5434, with Rietveld at
> http://codereview.appspot.com/25079.
I have read the
Hi Jess,
I'm sorry if I'm failing to understand the use of this function from not
looking closely at your code. I'm a bit dubious about the usefulness of this
(I'm not sure I understand the use cases), but I'm very open to being
convinced. Datetime semantics are very important in some areas -- I u
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