Re: [Python-Dev] Warnings

2011-11-30 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 5:15 PM, Glyph wrote: >> I think both of these documents point to a need for a recommended idiom for >> discussing security, or at least common antipatterns, within the Python >> documentation.  I like the IETF's "securi

Re: [Python-Dev] Warnings

2011-11-30 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 5:15 PM, Glyph wrote: > I think both of these documents point to a need for a recommended idiom for > discussing security, or at least common antipatterns, within the Python > documentation.  I like the IETF's "security considerations" section, because > it separates things

Re: [Python-Dev] Warnings

2011-11-30 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: > When updating the documentation, please don't go overboard with warnings. > The docs need to be worded affirmatively -- say what a tool does and show > how to use it correctly. > See http://docs.python.org/documenting/style.html#affirmativ

Re: [Python-Dev] Warnings

2011-11-30 Thread Glyph
On Dec 1, 2011, at 1:10 AM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: > When updating the documentation, please don't go overboard with warnings. > The docs need to be worded affirmatively -- say what a tool does and show how > to use it correctly. > See http://docs.python.org/documenting/style.html#affirmative-

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 402: Simplified Package Layout and Partitioning

2011-11-30 Thread Glyph
On Nov 30, 2011, at 6:39 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 1:28 AM, PJ Eby wrote: >> It doesn't help at all that I'm not really in a position to provide an >> implementation, and the persons most likely to implement have been leaning >> somewhat towards 382, or wanting to modify 4

[Python-Dev] Warnings

2011-11-30 Thread Raymond Hettinger
When updating the documentation, please don't go overboard with warnings. The docs need to be worded affirmatively -- say what a tool does and show how to use it correctly. See http://docs.python.org/documenting/style.html#affirmative-tone The docs for the subprocess module currently have SEVEN w

Re: [Python-Dev] STM and python

2011-11-30 Thread Matt Joiner
I saw this, I believe it just exposes an STM primitive to user code. It doesn't make use of STM for Python internals. Explicit STM doesn't seem particularly useful for a language that doesn't expose raw memory in its normal usage. On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Thu, Dec

Re: [Python-Dev] STM and python

2011-11-30 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Gregory P. Smith wrote: > Azul has been using hardware transactional memory on their custom CPUs (and > likely STM in their current x86 virtual machine based products) to great > effect for their massively parallel Java VM (700+ cpu cores and gobs of ram) > for ove

Re: [Python-Dev] STM and python

2011-11-30 Thread Gregory P. Smith
Azul has been using hardware transactional memory on their custom CPUs (and likely STM in their current x86 virtual machine based products) to great effect for their massively parallel Java VM (700+ cpu cores and gobs of ram) for over 4 years. I'll leave it to the reader to do the relevant searchi

Re: [Python-Dev] STM and python

2011-11-30 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Thu, 1 Dec 2011 01:31:14 +1100 Matt Joiner wrote: > > However given advances in locking and garbage collection in the last > decade, what attempts have been made recently to try these new ideas > out? In particular, how unlikely is it that all the thread safe > primitives, global contexts, and

Re: [Python-Dev] STM and python

2011-11-30 Thread Matt Joiner
I did see this, I'm not convinced it's only relevant to PyPy. On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 2:25 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote: > 2011/11/30 Matt Joiner : >> Given GCC's announcement that Intel's STM will be an extension for C >> and C++ in GCC 4.7, what does this mean for Python, and the GIL? >> >> I've

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 402: Simplified Package Layout and Partitioning

2011-11-30 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 1:28 AM, PJ Eby wrote: > It doesn't help at all that I'm not really in a position to provide an > implementation, and the persons most likely to implement have been leaning > somewhat towards 382, or wanting to modify 402 such that it uses .pyp > directory extensions so that

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 402: Simplified Package Layout and Partitioning

2011-11-30 Thread Martin v. Löwis
> If this helps, I am +1, and I’m sure other devs will chime in. I think > the feature is useful, and I prefer 402’s way to 382’s pyp directories. If that's the obstacle to adopting PEP 382, it would be easy to revert the PEP back to having file markers to indicate package-ness. I insist on havin

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 402: Simplified Package Layout and Partitioning

2011-11-30 Thread Éric Araujo
Hi, Thanks for the replies. > At this point, though, before doing any more work on the PEP I'd > like to have some idea of whether there's any chance of it being accepted. > At this point, there seems to be a lot of passive, "Usenet nod syndrome" > type support for it, but little active support.

Re: [Python-Dev] STM and python

2011-11-30 Thread Charles-François Natali
> However given advances in locking and garbage collection in the last > decade, what attempts have been made recently to try these new ideas > out? In particular, how unlikely is it that all the thread safe > primitives, global contexts, and reference counting functions be made > __transaction_ato

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 402: Simplified Package Layout and Partitioning

2011-11-30 Thread PJ Eby
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Éric Araujo wrote: > > Le 11/08/2011 20:30, P.J. Eby a écrit : > >> At 04:39 PM 8/11/2011 +0200, Éric Araujo wrote: > >>> I’ll just regret that it's not possible to provide a module docstring > >>> to inform that this is a namespace package used for X and Y. > >

Re: [Python-Dev] STM and python

2011-11-30 Thread Benjamin Peterson
2011/11/30 Matt Joiner : > Given GCC's announcement that Intel's STM will be an extension for C > and C++ in GCC 4.7, what does this mean for Python, and the GIL? > > I've seen efforts made to make STM available as a context, and for use > in user code. I've also read about the "old attempts way ba

[Python-Dev] STM and python

2011-11-30 Thread Matt Joiner
Given GCC's announcement that Intel's STM will be an extension for C and C++ in GCC 4.7, what does this mean for Python, and the GIL? I've seen efforts made to make STM available as a context, and for use in user code. I've also read about the "old attempts way back" that attempted to use finer gr

Re: [Python-Dev] Long term development external named branches and periodic merges from python

2011-11-30 Thread Martin v. Löwis
> Could be implemented as a command line command using "revsets"?. > Propose a new revset to mercurial devels? It *is* implemented as a command line command using "revsets". The revset is max(ancestors(branch("%s")))-outgoing("%s")) where the first parameter is the branch that contains your chan