Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

On 2013-09-07, at 05:40 , Jesus Cea wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 06/09/13 20:33, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 18:14:26 +0200 Jesus Cea wrote: >>> >>> It is intrusive. Yes. I think it must be, by its own nature. >>> Probably room for improvemen

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/09/13 20:33, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 18:14:26 +0200 Jesus Cea wrote: >> >> It is intrusive. Yes. I think it must be, by its own nature. >> Probably room for improvement and code transparency. But... are >> Python-DEVs intere

Re: [Python-Dev] Offtopic: OpenID Providers

On Sep 6, 2013, at 3:34 PM, "R. David Murray" wrote: > On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 15:17:12 -0400, Donald Stufft wrote: >> On Sep 6, 2013, at 3:11 PM, "R. David Murray" wrote: >> >>> IMO, single signon is overrated. Especially if one prefers not to make >>> it easy for various accounts to be automat

Re: [Python-Dev] Offtopic: OpenID Providers

On Sep 6, 2013, at 1:22 PM, Dan Callahan wrote: > On 9/5/13 12:31 PM, Jesus Cea wrote: >> I have big hopes for Mozilla Persona, looking forward >> Python infrastructure support :). > > Hi, I'm the project lead on Persona signin, and I spoke at PyCon earlier this > year regarding why and how Mo

Re: [Python-Dev] when to fix cross-version bugs?

On 09/06/2013 07:51 AM, Ethan Furman wrote: What guidelines determine when a bug is fixed in previous versions? On 09/06/2013 08:29 AM, Brian Curtin wrote: If it's a bug in that version and the version is accepting bug fixes, i.e., not in security mode, go for it. This includes crossing the

Re: [Python-Dev] Details of "import lock" in 3.3

Le Fri, 06 Sep 2013 17:08:28 +0200, Jesus Cea a écrit : > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > With importlib and other recent changes, what are the current details > of "import lock"?. That is, the lock/locks held when Python code does > "import", specially in the case of multithr

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

I think there are a couple of issues. - In order for the patch to be acceptable, we'd need someone to take responsibility for owning and maintaining it for at least several years. Jesus, are you willing to commit to this? - I think it's not all that important whether any core developer would want

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

On 2013-09-06, at 19:05 , Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 18:14:26 +0200 > Jesus Cea wrote: >> >>> Right now, I agree with Charles-François: your patch is too >>> intrusive. >> >> It is intrusive. Yes. I think it must be, by its own nature. Probably >> room for improvement and code

Re: [Python-Dev] unicodedata module is out of date

On 06/09/2013 10:54, Andrew Miller wrote: The unicodedata module only contains data up to Unicode 5.2 (October 2009), so attempting to reference any character from a later version e.g: unicodedata.lookup("TURKISH LIRA SIGN") results in a KeyError. Also, it seems to be limited to properties in

Re: [Python-Dev] Offtopic: OpenID Providers

On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 15:17:12 -0400, Donald Stufft wrote: > On Sep 6, 2013, at 3:11 PM, "R. David Murray" wrote: > > > IMO, single signon is overrated. Especially if one prefers not to make > > it easy for various accounts to be automatically associated with one > > another by various entities w

Re: [Python-Dev] Offtopic: OpenID Providers

On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 14:53:00 -0400, Donald Stufft wrote: > > On Sep 6, 2013, at 1:22 PM, Dan Callahan wrote: > > > On 9/5/13 12:31 PM, Jesus Cea wrote: > >> I have big hopes for Mozilla Persona, looking forward > >> Python infrastructure support :). > > > > Hi, I'm the project lead on Persona

Re: [Python-Dev] inspect and metaclasses

On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 08:14:09 -0700 Ethan Furman wrote: > On 09/06/2013 07:47 AM, Armin Rigo wrote: > > > > Are you suggesting that inspect.getmro(A) would return (A, object, > > type)? That seems very wrong to me. > > Currently, `inspect.getmro(A)` returns `(A, object)`. > > Considering that Py

Re: [Python-Dev] Offtopic: OpenID Providers

On Sep 6, 2013, at 3:11 PM, "R. David Murray" wrote: > IMO, single signon is overrated. Especially if one prefers not to make > it easy for various accounts to be automatically associated with one > another by various entities who shall remain nameless but have been in > the news a lot lately :

[Python-Dev] Summary of Python tracker Issues

ACTIVITY SUMMARY (2013-08-30 - 2013-09-06) Python tracker at http://bugs.python.org/ To view or respond to any of the issues listed below, click on the issue. Do NOT respond to this message. Issues counts and deltas: open4195 (+13) closed 26523 (+47) total 30718 (+60) Open issues wit

Re: [Python-Dev] inspect and metaclasses

On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 10:01:32 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote: > On 09/06/2013 09:37 AM, R. David Murray wrote: > > On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 08:59:02 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote: > >> > >> For the short term I can restrict the change to > >> inspect.classify_class_attrs(). > > > > Sounds like the best course.

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 18:14:26 +0200 Jesus Cea wrote: > > It is intrusive. Yes. I think it must be, by its own nature. Probably > room for improvement and code transparency. But... are Python-DEVs > interested in the project?. That is the point :) As a concrete data point: - here are Dave's modifi

Re: [Python-Dev] Details of "import lock" in 3.3

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/09/13 17:43, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > Quick summary here: > http://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.3.html#a-finer-grained-import-lock > > Otherwise, I'm afraid the source code has the most information, > e.g.: > http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/1

Re: [Python-Dev] Details of "import lock" in 3.3

On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 18:02:32 +0200 Jesus Cea wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 06/09/13 17:43, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > Quick summary here: > > http://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.3.html#a-finer-grained-import-lock > > > > Otherwise, I'm afraid the source code has

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 18:14:26 +0200 Jesus Cea wrote: > > > Right now, I agree with Charles-François: your patch is too > > intrusive. > > It is intrusive. Yes. I think it must be, by its own nature. Probably > room for improvement and code transparency. But... are Python-DEVs > interested in the

Re: [Python-Dev] inspect and metaclasses

On 09/06/2013 09:37 AM, R. David Murray wrote: On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 08:59:02 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote: For the short term I can restrict the change to inspect.classify_class_attrs(). Sounds like the best course. There is one other function in inspect that calls getmro(): def getmembers(ob

Re: [Python-Dev] unicodedata module is out of date

On 9/6/2013 11:55 AM, Andrew Miller wrote: I've just checked on Python 2.7.5 and Python 3.3.2 (Win32 versions). In Python 3.3.2 unicodedata.unidata_version is set to '6.1.0'. In Python 2.7.5 it is set to '5.2.0' so it looks as though this version is no longer being updated. In general, new fe

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

> The main value of DTrace is systemwide observability. You can see > something "strange" at kernel level and trace it to a particular line > of code in a random Python script. There is no other tool that can do > that. You have complete transversal observability of ALL the code > running in your c

Re: [Python-Dev] Offtopic: OpenID Providers

On 9/5/13 12:31 PM, Jesus Cea wrote: I have big hopes for Mozilla Persona, looking forward Python infrastructure support :). Hi, I'm the project lead on Persona signin, and I spoke at PyCon earlier this year regarding why and how Mozilla is building Persona. If you'd like some more background

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/09/13 17:29, Charles-François Natali wrote: > IMO, that's a large, intrusive patch, which distracts the reader > from the main code and logic. Yes, the patch is intrusive. It must be, to get its goals. Could be improved, nevertheless. Help and s

Re: [Python-Dev] inspect and metaclasses

On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 08:59:02 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote: > On 09/06/2013 08:44 AM, R. David Murray wrote: > > On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 08:14:09 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote: > >> On 09/06/2013 07:47 AM, Armin Rigo wrote: > >>> > >>> Are you suggesting that inspect.getmro(A) would return (A, object, > >>>

Re: [Python-Dev] unicodedata module is out of date

I've just checked on Python 2.7.5 and Python 3.3.2 (Win32 versions). In Python 3.3.2 unicodedata.unidata_version is set to '6.1.0'. In Python 2.7.5 it is set to '5.2.0' so it looks as though this version is no longer being updated. Since my initial post I've downloaded the Python 2.7.5 source an

[Python-Dev] Fwd: unicodedata module is out of date

The unicodedata module only contains data up to Unicode 5.2 (October 2009), so attempting to reference any character from a later version e.g: unicodedata.lookup("TURKISH LIRA SIGN") results in a KeyError. Also, it seems to be limited to properties in the UnicodeData.txt file and does not contai

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/09/13 17:41, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > You should start by addressing review comments: > http://bugs.python.org/issue13405#msg151751 Antoine, my first step now is to poke Python-DEV about this subject. If the consensus is "DON'T" I will probably

Re: [Python-Dev] inspect and metaclasses

On 09/06/2013 08:44 AM, R. David Murray wrote: On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 08:14:09 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote: On 09/06/2013 07:47 AM, Armin Rigo wrote: Are you suggesting that inspect.getmro(A) would return (A, object, type)? That seems very wrong to me. Currently, `inspect.getmro(A)` returns `(A

Re: [Python-Dev] unicodedata module is out of date

2013/9/6 Andrew Miller : > The unicodedata module only contains data up to Unicode 5.2 (October 2009), > so attempting to reference any character from a later version e.g: > > unicodedata.lookup("TURKISH LIRA SIGN") > > results in a KeyError. > > Also, it seems to be limited to properties in the Un

Re: [Python-Dev] inspect and metaclasses

On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 08:14:09 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote: > On 09/06/2013 07:47 AM, Armin Rigo wrote: > > > > Are you suggesting that inspect.getmro(A) would return (A, object, > > type)? That seems very wrong to me. > > Currently, `inspect.getmro(A)` returns `(A, object)`. Which matches A.__mro_

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

Le Fri, 06 Sep 2013 17:08:23 +0200, Jesus Cea a écrit : > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > As far as I know, Erlang, Ruby, PHP, Perl, etc., support Dtrace. > Python is embarrasingly missing from this list. > > Some examples: > >

Re: [Python-Dev] when to fix cross-version bugs?

On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 07:51:06 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote: > I recently committed a fix for unicodeobject.c so that the %d, %i, and %u > format specifiers always output values > (otherwise, in subclasses, the str() was used instead). > > Should this be fixed in 3.3 as well? > > What guidelines det

Re: [Python-Dev] unicodedata module is out of date

Andrew Miller, 06.09.2013 11:54: > The unicodedata module only contains data up to Unicode 5.2 (October 2009), > so attempting to reference any character from a later version e.g: > > unicodedata.lookup("TURKISH LIRA SIGN") > > results in a KeyError. > > Also, it seems to be limited to propertie

Re: [Python-Dev] unicodedata module is out of date

On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 17:33:47 +0200, Stefan Behnel wrote: > Andrew Miller, 06.09.2013 11:54: > > The unicodedata module only contains data up to Unicode 5.2 (October 2009), > > so attempting to reference any character from a later version e.g: > > > > unicodedata.lookup("TURKISH LIRA SIGN") > > >

Re: [Python-Dev] inspect and metaclasses

On 09/06/2013 07:47 AM, Armin Rigo wrote: Are you suggesting that inspect.getmro(A) would return (A, object, type)? That seems very wrong to me. Currently, `inspect.getmro(A)` returns `(A, object)`. Considering that Python actually will look in A's metaclass to find a class attribute, I thin

Re: [Python-Dev] unicodedata module is out of date

On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 10:54:45 +0100, Andrew Miller wrote: > Are there any plans to update this module to the latest Unicode version > (6.2, with 6.3 being released shortly), or is there another module that > provides more up to date information? Python 3.4 currently has 6.2. If 6.3 gets released

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

> As far as I know, Erlang, Ruby, PHP, Perl, etc., support Dtrace. > Python is embarrasingly missing from this list. > > Some examples: > > > >

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/09/13 17:14, Guido van Rossum wrote: > I've heard good things about DTRACE but never used it myself. > > Do I understand correctly that you have to build a separate Python > executable with it turned on? It is a patch you apply on stock Python

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

I've heard good things about DTRACE but never used it myself. Do I understand correctly that you have to build a separate Python executable with it turned on? I noticed one odd thing in the patch: apparently the dtrace module only exists to have a flag that tells whether it is enabled. Can't that

[Python-Dev] when to fix cross-version bugs?

I recently committed a fix for unicodeobject.c so that the %d, %i, and %u format specifiers always output values (otherwise, in subclasses, the str() was used instead). Should this be fixed in 3.3 as well? What guidelines determine when a bug is fixed in previous versions? -- ~Ethan~ _

Re: [Python-Dev] when to fix cross-version bugs?

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 9:51 AM, Ethan Furman wrote: > I recently committed a fix for unicodeobject.c so that the %d, %i, and %u > format specifiers always output values (otherwise, in subclasses, the str() > was used instead). > > Should this be fixed in 3.3 as well? > > What guidelines determine

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/09/13 17:08, Jesus Cea wrote: > Does Python-Dev have any opinion or interest in this project?. > Should I push for it? I have using this code for ages on my Solaris machines: Python 2.7.5 (dtrace-issue13405_2.7:f96ea83cd766, Aug 19 2013, 02:55:

[Python-Dev] unicodedata module is out of date

The unicodedata module only contains data up to Unicode 5.2 (October 2009), so attempting to reference any character from a later version e.g: unicodedata.lookup("TURKISH LIRA SIGN") results in a KeyError. Also, it seems to be limited to properties in the UnicodeData.txt file and does not contai

[Python-Dev] Details of "import lock" in 3.3

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 With importlib and other recent changes, what are the current details of "import lock"?. That is, the lock/locks held when Python code does "import", specially in the case of multithreading. Is that documented anywhere? Thanks! - -- Jesús Cea Avión

[Python-Dev] DTRACE support

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As far as I know, Erlang, Ruby, PHP, Perl, etc., support Dtrace. Python is embarrasingly missing from this list. Some examples: <

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

> I have spend a very long time on a patch for Dtrace support in most > platforms with dtrace available. Currently working under Solaris and > derivatives, and MacOS X. Last time I checked, it would crash FreeBSD > because bugs in the dtrace port, but that was a long time ago. I looked at this sev

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/09/13 17:18, Skip Montanaro wrote: > I looked at this several years ago. As I recall, the problem at the > time was that the Apple and Sun DTrace implementations were > incompatible, or that the probes they had inserted into their own > /usr/bin/

Re: [Python-Dev] inspect and metaclasses

Hi Ethan, Are you suggesting that inspect.get_mro(A) would return (A, object, type)? That seems very wrong to me. If the goal is to fix `inspect.classify_class_attrs()`, then this function only needs a specific fix, along the lines of looking in `get_mro(A) + get_mro(type(A))`. (A more minor is

Re: [Python-Dev] SEEK_* constants in io and os

On 09/01/2013 06:02 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote: os seems to import io in some functions; can this be done always? If yes, we can just define the constants once and os.SEEK_* will alias io.SEEK_*? The other way (io taking from os) is also a possibility (maybe the preferred one because io already r

Re: [Python-Dev] SEEK_* constants in io and os

> On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Victor Stinner > wrote: > >> 2013/9/2 Eli Bendersky : >> > Yes, now I see a 500 usec difference timed within the Python script. >> When >> > timing the whole execution of Python: (...) >> >> Can you please provide the list of imported modules by: >> python -c 'imp

Re: [Python-Dev] windows file closing race condition?

On 6 September 2013 14:16, Richard Oudkerk wrote: > On 06/09/2013 1:55pm, Paul Moore wrote: >> >> ... If you rename the >> >> file to anywhere but the same directory, you potentially have >> permission issues. > > > Using the root directory avoids permission issues -- users always have write > acc

[Python-Dev] inspect and metaclasses

Part of the fix for issue #18693 is to fix inspect to look in the metaclass for class attributes (http://bugs.python.org/issue18929). In inspect.py in function get_mro() we can either add the metaclass unconditionally, or only if it is not 'type'. If we add unconditionally, then help() adds t

Re: [Python-Dev] windows file closing race condition?

On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 13:21:35 +0100, Tim Golden wrote: > On 06/09/2013 12:50, Richard Oudkerk wrote: > > On 06/09/2013 11:23am, Tim Golden wrote: > >> On 06/09/2013 11:14, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > >>> Le Fri, 06 Sep 2013 08:58:06 +0100, > >>> Tim Golden a écrit : > > What should Python d

Re: [Python-Dev] windows file closing race condition?

On 06/09/2013 1:55pm, Paul Moore wrote: ... If you rename the file to anywhere but the same directory, you potentially have permission issues. Using the root directory avoids permission issues -- users always have write access there. -- Richard __

Re: [Python-Dev] windows file closing race condition?

On 6 September 2013 13:21, Tim Golden wrote: > True, but then you're into determining a temporary name somewhere on the > same volume if possible and avoiding collisions etc. Again, I don't > think this is something we need to be doing by default in core Python. Agreed. There simply is no soluti

Re: [Python-Dev] windows file closing race condition?

On 06/09/2013 12:50, Richard Oudkerk wrote: > On 06/09/2013 11:23am, Tim Golden wrote: >> On 06/09/2013 11:14, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >>> Le Fri, 06 Sep 2013 08:58:06 +0100, >>> Tim Golden a écrit : What should Python do? >>> >>> Maybe using FILE_SHARE_DELETE could help? >>> http://bugs.p

Re: [Python-Dev] windows file closing race condition?

On 06/09/2013 11:23am, Tim Golden wrote: On 06/09/2013 11:14, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Le Fri, 06 Sep 2013 08:58:06 +0100, Tim Golden a écrit : What should Python do? Maybe using FILE_SHARE_DELETE could help? http://bugs.python.org/issue15244 I don't think so. It's the use of FILE_SHARE_DELE

Re: [Python-Dev] windows file closing race condition?

On 06/09/2013 11:14, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > Le Fri, 06 Sep 2013 08:58:06 +0100, > Tim Golden a écrit : >> >> What should Python do? > > Maybe using FILE_SHARE_DELETE could help? > http://bugs.python.org/issue15244 I don't think so. It's the use of FILE_SHARE_DELETE (by other programs, eg Virus

Re: [Python-Dev] windows file closing race condition?

Le Fri, 06 Sep 2013 08:58:06 +0100, Tim Golden a écrit : > > What should Python do? Maybe using FILE_SHARE_DELETE could help? http://bugs.python.org/issue15244 Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.o

Re: [Python-Dev] windows file closing race condition?

On 06/09/2013 08:14, Nick Coghlan wrote: This feels a lot like an issue we were seeing on the Windows buildbots, which we ended up working around in the test support library: http://bugs.python.org/issue15496 Wow :'( That would be some awfully ugly code to upgrade from "hack in the test suppo

Re: [Python-Dev] windows file closing race condition?

On 06/09/2013 08:14, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 6 September 2013 15:50, Chris Withers wrote: >> Continuous testing is a wonderful thing when it comes to finding weird edge >> case problems, like this one: [... snip ...] >> os.rmdir(path) >> OSError: [WinError 145] The directory is not empty: >>

Re: [Python-Dev] windows file closing race condition?

Antoine Pitrou writes: > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2012/09/07/10347136.aspx That was worth it just for the comment from Australia! ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev U

Re: [Python-Dev] windows file closing race condition?

On 06/09/2013 07:10, Antoine Pitrou wrote: This happens very infrequently, the OS is Windows 7 and the filesystem is NTFS, if that helps... It should help indeed: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2012/09/07/10347136.aspx The box in questions runs no AV software or indexing services

Re: [Python-Dev] windows file closing race condition?

On 6 September 2013 15:50, Chris Withers wrote: > Hi All, > > Continuous testing is a wonderful thing when it comes to finding weird edge > case problems, like this one: > > http://jenkins.simplistix.co.uk/job/testfixtures-tox/COMPONENTS=zc,PYTHON=3.3,label=windows/149/testReport/junit/testfixture