Victor Stinner writes:
> 2013/10/12 Ben Finney :
> > Victor Stinner writes:
> >
> >> For draft PEP, the identifier may change.
Note that this isn't a matter of the PEP being draft; once a PEP has a
number, it deserves an official URL and (if I understand you correctly)
a keyword.
Then, *after*
On 10/11/2013 07:47 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Nick Coghlan writes:
> (RDM is also right that the exception still has the effect of
> terminating the block early, but I view names as mnemonics rather
> than necessarily 100% accurate descriptions of things).
This is just way too ambigu
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 10:04 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> Adopting a suitable set of keywords (like unicode, import, builtins, syntax,
> stdlib, cpython) could be interesting, though.
A couple years ago I started a page on the wiki for a topical listing
of the PEPS [1]. I even brought up having a
On 12 Oct 2013 11:15, "Victor Stinner" wrote:
>
> 2013/10/12 Ethan Furman :
> >> What do you propose in cases like this? Should the keyword always refer
> >> to the same PEP it did in the past, even when that PEP is no longer as
> >> relevant given later PEPs? Or should the keyword reach a differe
Victor Stinner writes:
Quoting someone else:
>> For that matter, what names would you give to the myriad unicode
>> peps?
For what value of "you"? ISTM that's important.
> Let me try to name PEPs related to Unicode:
Of the ones you suggest, the only one that rings bells for me is
"surrogat
Nick Coghlan writes:
> (RDM is also right that the exception still has the effect of
> terminating the block early, but I view names as mnemonics rather
> than necessarily 100% accurate descriptions of things).
This is just way too ambiguous for my taste. I can't help reading
with contex
On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 20:20:28 -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Oct 12, 2013, at 09:06 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>
> >I'm not too fussy about the name (clearly). We originally picked ignored(),
> >Raymond asked if he could change it to ignore() (and I said yes),
>
> Just as a point of order, it would
On 10/11/2013 06:13 PM, Victor Stinner wrote:
Let me try to name PEPs related to Unicode:
100: unicode_integration
261: unicode_ucs4
277: windows_unicode_filenames (hum, I proposed a limit of 20
characters, this name is 25 characters long)
383: surrogateescape
393: compact_unicode
414: u_prefix
2013/10/12 Nick Coghlan :
>> summary:
>> Issue #19209: fix structseq test
>>
>> diff --git a/Lib/test/test_structseq.py b/Lib/test/test_structseq.py
>> --- a/Lib/test/test_structseq.py
>> +++ b/Lib/test/test_structseq.py
>> @@ -38,7 +38,7 @@
>> # os.stat() gives a complicated struct sequ
On Oct 11, 2013, at 9:13 PM, Victor Stinner wrote:
> 2013/10/12 Ethan Furman :
>>> What do you propose in cases like this? Should the keyword always refer
>>> to the same PEP it did in the past, even when that PEP is no longer as
>>> relevant given later PEPs? Or should the keyword reach a diffe
2013/10/12 Ethan Furman :
>> What do you propose in cases like this? Should the keyword always refer
>> to the same PEP it did in the past, even when that PEP is no longer as
>> relevant given later PEPs? Or should the keyword reach a different,
>> newer PEP if that newer PEP becomes a “more releva
2013/10/12 Ben Finney :
> Victor Stinner writes:
>
>> For draft PEP, the identifier may change.
>
> For an idea implemented in several PEPs, the obvious identifier may be
> taken first, but the preferred PEP for that identifier may later change.
>
> For example, PEP 354 would have the obvious keyw
Hm. I think at that scale giving every PEP a unique name and remembering
those names is just as hard. And the issue with different versions or
variants of the same idea is real. I think it's not worth the effort.
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Victor Stinner wrote:
> 2013/10/12 Guido van Rossu
On 10/11/2013 04:35 PM, Ben Finney wrote:
Victor Stinner writes:
For draft PEP, the identifier may change.
For an idea implemented in several PEPs, the obvious identifier may be
taken first, but the preferred PEP for that identifier may later change.
For example, PEP 354 would have the obvi
2013/10/12 Guido van Rossum :
> What's the use case? I just use Google search if I don't recall the PEP
> number.
The final goal would be to identify PEPs using a textual identifier
instead of a number identifier.
We now have 206 PEPs (341 if you count also deferred and rejected
PEPs). It's not e
On Oct 12, 2013, at 09:06 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>I'm not too fussy about the name (clearly). We originally picked ignored(),
>Raymond asked if he could change it to ignore() (and I said yes),
Just as a point of order, it would be good to capture such side-channel
discussions in the relevant iss
On 12 Oct 2013 09:42, "christian.heimes" wrote:
>
> http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/89e405e6a7a9
> changeset: 86218:89e405e6a7a9
> parent: 86216:29c4a6a11e76
> user:Christian Heimes
> date:Sat Oct 12 01:38:52 2013 +0200
> summary:
> Issue #19209: fix structseq test
>
> f
On 12 Oct 2013 09:32, "Mark Lawrence" wrote:
>
> On 12/10/2013 00:13, Victor Stinner wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> What do you think of adding an optional identifier to a PEP to get a
>> readable URL?
>>
>> Example:
>> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/qualname/
>> instead of
>> http://www.python.or
Victor Stinner writes:
> For draft PEP, the identifier may change.
For an idea implemented in several PEPs, the obvious identifier may be
taken first, but the preferred PEP for that identifier may later change.
For example, PEP 354 would have the obvious keyword “enum” when it was
being discuss
On 12 Oct 2013 09:27, "christian.heimes" wrote:
>
> http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/29c4a6a11e76
> changeset: 86216:29c4a6a11e76
> user:Christian Heimes
> date:Sat Oct 12 01:27:08 2013 +0200
> summary:
> Issue #19209: Remove import of copyreg from the os module to speed up
>
On 11 Oct 2013 21:25, "Ned Batchelder" wrote:
>
> I wanted to teach a co-worker about "from __future__ import
absolute_import" today, so I thought I'd point them at the docs. The page
for "__future__" starts with a bunch of internal details that almost no one
needs to know. There's a table at th
On 12/10/2013 00:13, Victor Stinner wrote:
Hi,
What do you think of adding an optional identifier to a PEP to get a
readable URL?
Example:
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/qualname/
instead of
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0395/
Other examples:
305: csv
450: statistics
3156: asynci
What's the use case? I just use Google search if I don't recall the PEP
number.
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Victor Stinner wrote:
> Hi,
>
> What do you think of adding an optional identifier to a PEP to get a
> readable URL?
>
> Example:
>http://www.python.org/dev/peps/qualname/
> inste
Hi,
What do you think of adding an optional identifier to a PEP to get a
readable URL?
Example:
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/qualname/
instead of
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0395/
Other examples:
305: csv
450: statistics
3156: asyncio
An identifier must only contain lower case l
On 12 Oct 2013 05:49, "Eric Snow" wrote:
>
> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Stefan Krah wrote:
> > Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> >> Just create a _pydecimal module (like _pyio).
> >
> > That's very fast indeed. There's one minor problem: For backwards
compatibility
> > and pickling [1] I'd need to a
On 12 Oct 2013 03:58, "R. David Murray" wrote:
>
> On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 20:32:45 +0300, Serhiy Storchaka
wrote:
> > 11.10.13 10:24, Antoine Pitrou написав(ла):
> > > Ezio was -1 on the tracker, and Eric Smith was -0. I'd like to add my
> > > -1 too. This is a useless addition (the traditional idio
On 11/10/2013 17:07, Python tracker wrote:
ACTIVITY SUMMARY (2013-10-04 - 2013-10-11)
Python tracker at http://bugs.python.org/
Issues counts and deltas:
open4240 (-16)
closed 26757 (+75)
total 30997 (+59)
Looking at the figures above I'd just like to say thank you to everybody
On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 16:09:56 -0300, Zero Piraeus wrote:
> :
>
> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 08:01:07PM +0100, MRAB wrote:
> > On 11/10/2013 19:41, Glenn Linderman wrote:
> > >Insistence on using "with" for the anti-pattern, and proper English,
> > >would require:
> > >
> > >with ignorance_of(FileNotF
:
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 08:01:07PM +0100, MRAB wrote:
> On 11/10/2013 19:41, Glenn Linderman wrote:
> >Insistence on using "with" for the anti-pattern, and proper English,
> >would require:
> >
> >with ignorance_of(FileNotFoundError)
> >
> "Ignorance" means not knowing, but we _do_ know about Fi
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Glenn Linderman wrote:
> On 10/11/2013 10:19 AM, Eric V. Smith wrote:
>
> On 10/11/2013 12:43 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
> On Oct 11, 2013, at 06:27 PM, Georg Brandl wrote:
>
>
> Maybe to fit in with other verb-like APIs used as context managers:
> it's open() n
On 10/11/2013 12:00 PM, MRAB wrote:
On 11/10/2013 18:39, Ethan Furman wrote:
On 10/11/2013 09:43 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Oct 11, 2013, at 06:27 PM, Georg Brandl wrote:
Maybe to fit in with other verb-like APIs used as context managers:
it's open() not opened().
open() predates context ma
On 10/11/2013 04:24 AM, Ned Batchelder wrote:
I'd like to suggest that we not consider PEPs to be documentation.
+1
The few times I've tried to use the PEPs to understand current Python it was
confusing, wrong, and a waste of time.
--
~Ethan~
___
2013/10/11 Antoine Pitrou :
>> So the first step I tried is something horrible (typing from memory):
>>
>> try:
>> import _decimal
>> except ImportError:
>>
>> else:
>> from _decimal import *
>>
>> That way the 2.21 msec are reduced to 912 usec, but the indentation is
>> an abomination
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Stefan Krah wrote:
> Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>> Just create a _pydecimal module (like _pyio).
>
> That's very fast indeed. There's one minor problem: For backwards
> compatibility
> and pickling [1] I'd need to add
>
> __module__ = 'decimal'
>
> to every class
Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Just create a _pydecimal module (like _pyio).
That's very fast indeed. There's one minor problem: For backwards compatibility
and pickling [1] I'd need to add
__module__ = 'decimal'
to every class of the Python version. Are there any reasons not to do that?
Stefan
On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Eric Snow wrote:
> After a few rounds on import-sig PEP 451 is really for general
> consumption. I also have a patch up now.
>
> HTML: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0451/
> implementation: http://bugs.python.org/issue18864
>
> Your comments would be appreciat
On 10/11/2013 8:04 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
11.10.13 13:33, Eric V. Smith написав(ла):
And Antoine has again taught me a new word:
polysemic: having more than one meaning; having multiple meanings
There is no such word in my dictionaries. :( Only polysemous and
polysemantic.
http://www.me
On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 20:01:07 +0100, MRAB wrote:
> On 11/10/2013 19:41, Glenn Linderman wrote:
> > On 10/11/2013 10:19 AM, Eric V. Smith wrote:
> >> On 10/11/2013 12:43 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> >>> On Oct 11, 2013, at 06:27 PM, Georg Brandl wrote:
> >>>
> Maybe to fit in with other verb-like
On 10/11/2013 3:37 AM, Hu, Hao (NSN - CN/Beijing) wrote:
This list is for development *of* Python and CPython. Usage questions
should be directed elsewhere, such as python-list. Idle questions can be
directed to the idle-sig list. Both can be accessed through
news.gmane.org as gmane.comp.pytho
On 11/10/2013 19:41, Glenn Linderman wrote:
On 10/11/2013 10:19 AM, Eric V. Smith wrote:
On 10/11/2013 12:43 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Oct 11, 2013, at 06:27 PM, Georg Brandl wrote:
Maybe to fit in with other verb-like APIs used as context managers:
it's open() not opened().
open() predates
On 11/10/2013 18:39, Ethan Furman wrote:
On 10/11/2013 09:43 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Oct 11, 2013, at 06:27 PM, Georg Brandl wrote:
Maybe to fit in with other verb-like APIs used as context managers:
it's open() not opened().
open() predates context managers, but maybe we need a new conve
11.10.13 21:41, Glenn Linderman написав(ла):
Seriously, "with" is the wrong spelling for this using. It should be
while ignorning(FileNotFoundError)
We need extended bool for while condition:
http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/What_Is_Truth_0x3f_.aspx
__
On 10/11/2013 10:19 AM, Eric V. Smith wrote:
On 10/11/2013 12:43 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Oct 11, 2013, at 06:27 PM, Georg Brandl wrote:
Maybe to fit in with other verb-like APIs used as context managers:
it's open() not opened().
open() predates context managers, but maybe we need a new co
Am 11.10.2013 19:24, schrieb Barry Warsaw:
> On Oct 11, 2013, at 01:19 PM, Eric V. Smith wrote:
>
>>But, to continue to paint the shed, shouldn't it be "ignoring", to match
>>"closing"?
>
> Maybe so.
Would at least be consistent since both actions (close/ignore) are done at
the end of the execut
On 10/11/2013 09:43 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Oct 11, 2013, at 06:27 PM, Georg Brandl wrote:
Maybe to fit in with other verb-like APIs used as context managers:
it's open() not opened().
open() predates context managers, but maybe we need a new convention.
with ignore(FileNotFoundError):
v
On Oct 11, 2013, at 08:32 PM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
>I am -1 too. But I want to hear more about interact with ExitStack (note that
>ExitStack itself is not widely used in the stdlib).
Yet. :)
-Barry
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-1 to contextlib.ignore(s|d|ing|etc)
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On 10/11/2013 05:51 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 11/10/2013 11:33, Eric V. Smith wrote:
And Antoine has again taught me a new word:
polysemic: having more than one meaning; having multiple meanings
IMHO a poor word to use. I'm a middle aged Brit who's never heard of it
so people who have Eng
On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 20:32:45 +0300, Serhiy Storchaka
wrote:
> 11.10.13 10:24, Antoine Pitrou напиÑав(ла):
> > Ezio was -1 on the tracker, and Eric Smith was -0. I'd like to add my
> > -1 too. This is a useless addition (the traditional idiom is perfectly
> > obvious) and makes reading fo
11.10.13 10:24, Antoine Pitrou написав(ла):
Ezio was -1 on the tracker, and Eric Smith was -0. I'd like to add my
-1 too. This is a useless addition (the traditional idiom is perfectly
obvious) and makes reading foreign code more tedious by adding
superfluous API calls.
I am -1 too. But I want
On Oct 11, 2013, at 01:19 PM, Eric V. Smith wrote:
>But, to continue to paint the shed, shouldn't it be "ignoring", to match
>"closing"?
Maybe so.
-Barry
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On 10/11/2013 12:43 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Oct 11, 2013, at 06:27 PM, Georg Brandl wrote:
>
>> Maybe to fit in with other verb-like APIs used as context managers:
>> it's open() not opened().
>
> open() predates context managers, but maybe we need a new convention.
>
> with ignore(FileNotF
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>
> Let me answer here to Nick's argument on the tracker (made last year,
> before the patch was committed):
>
> > As with many context managers, a key benefit here is in the priming
> > effect for readers. In this code:
> >
> > try:
> >
On Oct 11, 2013, at 06:27 PM, Georg Brandl wrote:
>Maybe to fit in with other verb-like APIs used as context managers:
>it's open() not opened().
open() predates context managers, but maybe we need a new convention.
with ignore(FileNotFoundError):
vs
with ignored(FileNotFoundError):
To me any
Am 11.10.2013 16:47, schrieb Barry Warsaw:
> On Oct 11, 2013, at 09:24 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>
>>I don't think that this contextlib.ignore() thing has been discussed a
>>lot.
>>
>>Ezio was -1 on the tracker, and Eric Smith was -0. I'd like to add my
>>-1 too. This is a useless addition (the tr
Am 11.10.2013 11:43, schrieb Victor Stinner:
> [We are discussing issue #15806.]
>
> 2013/10/11 Antoine Pitrou :
>> I don't think that this contextlib.ignore() thing has been discussed a
>> lot.
>
> If we decide to keep the feature, I would prefer a less generic name:
> contextlib.ignore_excep()
ACTIVITY SUMMARY (2013-10-04 - 2013-10-11)
Python tracker at http://bugs.python.org/
To view or respond to any of the issues listed below, click on the issue.
Do NOT respond to this message.
Issues counts and deltas:
open4240 (-16)
closed 26757 (+75)
total 30997 (+59)
Open issues wit
Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> >
> > I'm getting about the same values as above. I may be misunderstanding
> > something, but I wanted to reduce the difference between the 2.21 msec
> > and the 112 usec.
>
> So you aren't complaining about C extension import time, but Python
> code import time, right?
Hi,
When I open IDLE(Python GUI) from the windows start menu, it always open Python
Shell. When I right click on a *.py file, I cannot see the menu item "open with
IDLE". Even after I uninstall and reinstall Python several times with different
versions, the issue remains. I guess it is because
On 10 Oct 2013, at 01:53, Eric Snow wrote:
> Registration is now open for PyCon US 2014. Are there any plans yet
> for the language summit? Just the day (e.g. Thursday April 10) will
> suffice. Then we can make arrangements appropriately. Thanks.
Sorry for the late reply. Yes there will be
Le Fri, 11 Oct 2013 17:01:35 +0200,
Stefan Krah a écrit :
>
> I'm getting about the same values as above. I may be misunderstanding
> something, but I wanted to reduce the difference between the 2.21 msec
> and the 112 usec.
So you aren't complaining about C extension import time, but Python
cod
Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Try the following:
>
> $ ./python -m timeit -s "modname='decimal'; import sys" \
> "__import__(modname); del sys.modules[modname]"
> 1000 loops, best of 3: 2.21 msec per loop
>
> $ ./python -m timeit -s "modname='_decimal'; import sys" \
> "__import__(modname); del sy
On Oct 11, 2013, at 09:24 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>I don't think that this contextlib.ignore() thing has been discussed a
>lot.
>
>Ezio was -1 on the tracker, and Eric Smith was -0. I'd like to add my
>-1 too. This is a useless addition (the traditional idiom is perfectly
>obvious) and makes rea
Le Fri, 11 Oct 2013 13:51:24 +0100,
Mark Lawrence a écrit :
> On 11/10/2013 11:33, Eric V. Smith wrote:
> >
> > And Antoine has again taught me a new word:
> > polysemic: having more than one meaning; having multiple meanings
> >
>
> IMHO a poor word to use. I'm a middle aged Brit who's never he
On Oct 11, 2013, at 07:24 AM, Ned Batchelder wrote:
>I'd like to suggest that we not consider PEPs to be documentation.
Absolutely +1. That was never the intention behind PEPs.
-Barry
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2013/10/11 Ned Batchelder :
> I wanted to teach a co-worker about "from __future__ import absolute_import"
> today, so I thought I'd point them at the docs. The page for "__future__"
> starts with a bunch of internal details that almost no one needs to know.
> There's a table at the end that menti
2013/10/11 Mark Lawrence :
> On 11/10/2013 11:33, Eric V. Smith wrote:
>>
>>
>> And Antoine has again taught me a new word:
>> polysemic: having more than one meaning; having multiple meanings
>>
>
> IMHO a poor word to use. I'm a middle aged Brit who's never heard of it so
> people who have Engli
Le Fri, 11 Oct 2013 14:24:29 +0200,
Stefan Krah a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> recently there has been some talk about reducing import times. It
> seems that the current import strategy for C extensions (i.e.
> importing the extension at the bottom of the .py file) is quite slow:
>
>
> ===
On 11/10/2013 11:33, Eric V. Smith wrote:
And Antoine has again taught me a new word:
polysemic: having more than one meaning; having multiple meanings
IMHO a poor word to use. I'm a middle aged Brit who's never heard of it
so people who have English as a second language have little or no c
Stefan Krah wrote:
> import sys
>
> for i in range(1):
> import decimal
> del sys.modules('decimal')
> del sys.modules('_decimal')
^^^
This happens when a Linux user is forced to use Putty :(
___
Python-Dev mailing
Hi,
recently there has been some talk about reducing import times. It seems
that the current import strategy for C extensions (i.e. importing the
extension at the bottom of the .py file) is quite slow:
import sys
for i in range(1):
import decimal
del sys.module
11.10.13 13:33, Eric V. Smith написав(ла):
And Antoine has again taught me a new word:
polysemic: having more than one meaning; having multiple meanings
There is no such word in my dictionaries. :( Only polysemous and
polysemantic.
___
Python-Dev m
I wanted to teach a co-worker about "from __future__ import
absolute_import" today, so I thought I'd point them at the docs. The
page for "__future__" starts with a bunch of internal details that
almost no one needs to know. There's a table at the end that mentions
the actual importable names,
On 10/11/2013 5:00 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
>
> Let me answer here to Nick's argument on the tracker (made last year,
> before the patch was committed):
>
>> As with many context managers, a key benefit here is in the priming
>> effect for readers. In this code:
>>
>> try:
>># Whatev
[We are discussing issue #15806.]
2013/10/11 Antoine Pitrou :
> I don't think that this contextlib.ignore() thing has been discussed a
> lot.
If we decide to keep the feature, I would prefer a less generic name:
contextlib.ignore_excep(), contextlib.ignore_exception() or
contextlib.ignore_excepti
Let me answer here to Nick's argument on the tracker (made last year,
before the patch was committed):
> As with many context managers, a key benefit here is in the priming
> effect for readers. In this code:
>
> try:
># Whatever
> except (A, B, C):
>pass
>
> the reader
Hello,
On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 07:39:48 +0200 (CEST)
raymond.hettinger wrote:
> http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/f014b5f0773f
> changeset: 86209:f014b5f0773f
> user:Raymond Hettinger
> date:Thu Oct 10 22:39:39 2013 -0700
> summary:
> Rename contextlib.ignored() to contextlib.ign
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