Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7. on Windows

Steven D'Aprano writes: > On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 12:07:00PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > Note that if users actually paid attention to these guidelines, we'd > > be getting complaints from *them*, not from you. I don't recall ever > > seeing that. That implies that "normal users" w

Re: [Python-Dev] API and process questions (sparked by Claudiu Popa on 16104

On 28 Apr 2014 16:19, "Ezio Melotti" wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 6:32 PM, Jim J. Jewett wrote: > > (1) Should fixes to a docstring go in with a patch, even if they > > aren't related to the changing functionality? > > > > [...] > > > > It is best if a commit changes one small thing at a t

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes with trailing \0?

It is to improve the experience of passing bytes to a C function that expects a trailing \0. For example syscalls taking filenames. The wrapper must still check for embedded \0 but the bytes don't need to be copied. On Monday, April 28, 2014, Nikolaus Rath wrote: > Hello, > > I was surprised to

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7. on Windows

On 4/28/2014 8:52 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: I think that's unfair. I'm not a MS fan, not even close. I think their business practices in the past have been reprehensible. But if there is anyone who takes backwards-compatibility even more seriously than Python-Dev, it is them. I guess there is no

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7. on Windows

On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 12:07:00PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Mike Miller writes: > > > Microsoft's guidelines on where to install software are clear, and > > don't make exceptions that "tools" should be installed to the root > > of the drive to bypass file system permissions, for conv

[Python-Dev] bytes with trailing \0?

Hello, I was surprised to find the following in bytesobject.c: , | [...] |As always, an extra byte is allocated for a trailing \0 byte (newsize |does *not* include that), and a trailing \0 byte is stored. | */ | | int | _PyBytes_Resize(PyObject **pv, Py_ssize_t newsize) | { | [...] |

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7. on Windows

Mike Miller writes: > Microsoft's guidelines on where to install software are clear, and > don't make exceptions that "tools" should be installed to the root > of the drive to bypass file system permissions, for convenience. But there's the rub. In this case, Microsoft doesn't have *security*

Re: [Python-Dev] pep8 reasoning

> On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 11:12 AM, Chris Barker wrote: > not really -- it allows it: > > # Aligned with opening delimiter. > foo = long_function_name(var_one, var_two, > var_three, var_four) > > but all the examples have more than one variable per line...my poi

Re: [Python-Dev] pep8 reasoning

R. David Murray writes: > My unix fix-width terminal font handles most unicode (even a lot of > non-bmp stuff...though I have no idea if it is readable :). Oh, I bet you do. With a true fixed-width Unicode font, it's the *Latin-character* text that's painful, if not unreadable, because the asp

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7. on Windows

On Mon, Apr 28, 2014, at 17:14, Brian Curtin wrote: > If it's an acceptable change to the release manager (Benjamin?), and > if there's actually time before the RC (I don't know when it is > planned), I am willing to backport my 3.3 change to get this in the > 2.7 installer. That's fine. > > How

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7. on Windows

On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 7:04 PM, Steve Dower wrote: >> Mike Miller wrote: >> On 04/29/2014 05:12 AM, Steve Dower wrote: >>> This would be an incredibly painful change that would surprise and >>> hurt a lot of people. >> >> Hi, I think "incredibly painful" is overstating the case a bit. ;) We're >

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7. on Windows

> Mike Miller wrote: > On 04/29/2014 05:12 AM, Steve Dower wrote: >> This would be an incredibly painful change that would surprise and >> hurt a lot of people. > > Hi, I think "incredibly painful" is overstating the case a bit. ;) We're > talking > about an installer default, a setting that woul

Re: [Python-Dev] Multiple inheritance from builtin (C) types [still] supported in Python3?

Hello, On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 12:08:40 -0700 Guido van Rossum wrote: [] > > How is "compatible layout" defined? Or "layout" for that matter at > > all? > > > > The layout is what the C struct defining the object looks like. These > are typically defined in headers in the Include directory (e.g. >

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7. on Windows

On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > * watch Dave Beazley's PyCon 2014 talk for a good story involving one > >> of those manufacturer installed Pythons: >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ4Sn-Y7AP8 >> > > Thanks, I'm trying to get thru all the talk will watch that shortly. ;) >

Re: [Python-Dev] pep8 reasoning

On 4/28/2014 7:13 PM, Chris Barker wrote: On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Terry Reedy mailto:tjre...@udel.edu>> wrote: I don't think anyone should write code with variable width fonts, The problem is that fixed pitch does not work well for even a half-way complete unicode font

Re: [Python-Dev] pep8 reasoning

On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > I don't think anyone should write code with variable width fonts, >> > > The problem is that fixed pitch does not work well for even a half-way > complete unicode font and I don't know that there are any available. > ... > Given that PEP8 gen

Re: [Python-Dev] pep8 reasoning

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 18:01:32 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 4/28/2014 2:12 PM, Chris Barker wrote: > > > I don't think anyone should write code with variable width fonts, > > The problem is that fixed pitch does not work well for even a half-way > complete unicode font and I don't know that the

Re: [Python-Dev] API and process questions (sparked by Claudiu Popa on 16104

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 23:24:16 +0300, Claudiu Popa wrote: > - Will raise NotImplementedError if multiprocessing can't be used > (when `workers` equals to 0 or > 1) I think the most common use case for this ability will be "run with the appropriate number of processes for the system I'm on", where '

Re: [Python-Dev] Python-Dev Digest, Vol 129, Issue 81

On 4/28/2014 5:01 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: On Mon Apr 28 2014 at 4:58:35 PM, Mike Miller mailto:python-...@mgmiller.net>> wrote: Hi, note the pep, it makes allowances for security enhancements. The PEP in question is about fixing fundamentally broken security issues in Python 2.7 (e.g. up

Re: [Python-Dev] pep8 reasoning

On 4/28/2014 2:12 PM, Chris Barker wrote: I don't think anyone should write code with variable width fonts, The problem is that fixed pitch does not work well for even a half-way complete unicode font and I don't know that there are any available. As far as I know, my Windows 7 only came wit

Re: [Python-Dev] API and process questions (sparked by Claudiu Popa on 16104

On 4/28/2014 4:24 PM, Claudiu Popa wrote: This issue raised too much bikeshedding. To wrap it up, I'll modify the patch with the following: - processes renamed to workers - `workers` defaults to 1 - When `workers` is equal to 0, then `os.cpu_count` will be used - When `workers` > 1, multiple pro

Re: [Python-Dev] Python-Dev Digest, Vol 129, Issue 81

On Mon Apr 28 2014 at 4:58:35 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > Hi, note the pep, it makes allowances for security enhancements. > The PEP in question is about fixing fundamentally broken security issues in Python 2.7 (e.g. updating OpenSSL). Tweaking where Python is installed by default on Windows is no

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7. on Windows

On 04/29/2014 08:38 AM, Brian Curtin wrote: The option to add the current install to your path was added 3.3. Ok, thanks. So there is some precedent it would be useful. Remember, python-dev's are not the target users of this package, and are a rather minuscule fraction of the user base. K

Re: [Python-Dev] Python-Dev Digest, Vol 129, Issue 81

Hi, note the pep, it makes allowances for security enhancements. -Mike > Message: 5 Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 20:23:12 +0200 > From: Antoine Pitrou > To: python-dev@python.org Subject: > Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7. on Windows > Message-ID: <20140428202312.6903d62a@fsol> > Regardless of whether

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7. on Windows

Hi, Those bugs were fixed 9 years ago or so around 2005. I use python in ProgramFiles every day without issue. If another bug has crept in somewhere, it can be fixed. -Mike -- From: Sturla Molden To: python-dev@python.org Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7. on Windows

On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Mike Miller wrote: > > On 04/29/2014 05:12 AM, Steve Dower wrote: >> >> This would be an incredibly painful change that would surprise and hurt a >> lot of >> people. > > > Hi, I think "incredibly painful" is overstating the case a bit. ;) We're > talking about an

Re: [Python-Dev] API and process questions (sparked by Claudiu Popa on 16104

This issue raised too much bikeshedding. To wrap it up, I'll modify the patch with the following: - processes renamed to workers - `workers` defaults to 1 - When `workers` is equal to 0, then `os.cpu_count` will be used - When `workers` > 1, multiple processes will be used - When `workers` == 1, r

Re: [Python-Dev] API and process questions (sparked by Claudiu Popa on 16104

On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 6:32 PM, Jim J. Jewett wrote: > (1) Should fixes to a docstring go in with a patch, even if they > aren't related to the changing functionality? > > [...] > > It is best if a commit changes one small thing at a time. > On the other hand, Nick recently posted that the minim

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7. on Windows

On 04/29/2014 05:12 AM, Steve Dower wrote: This would be an incredibly painful change that would surprise and hurt a lot of people. Hi, I think "incredibly painful" is overstating the case a bit. ;) We're talking about an installer default, a setting that would still be changeable as it alw

Re: [Python-Dev] Commit-ready patches needing review

On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 12:10:46 -0700 Nikolaus Rath wrote: > > * http://bugs.python.org/issue21057 (TextIOWrapper does not support > reading bytearrays or memoryviews) I've reviewed this one. Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@p

Re: [Python-Dev] Multiple inheritance from builtin (C) types [still] supported in Python3?

On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 21:42:02 +0300 > Paul Sokolovsky wrote: > > > > > > Basically, if two classes have compatible layouts, you can inherit > > > from both at once. > > > > How is "compatible layout" defined? Or "layout" for that matter a

Re: [Python-Dev] Multiple inheritance from builtin (C) types [still] supported in Python3?

On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 11:42 AM, Paul Sokolovsky wrote: Well, it's easy to treat "object" class as a special-case, "null" > class. But the implementation doesn't, at least not for the question you're asking. > So, let's re-formulate questions above with "where such > native base classes are

Re: [Python-Dev] pep8 reasoning

On Apr 28, 2014, at 11:12 AM, Chris Barker wrote: >No -- stupid variable-width font! > >I don't think anyone should write code with variable width fonts, and I'd >rather not do email that way either, but gmail is making it tough these >days.. Ouch. I'm sure it's gmail being "helpful" the way

Re: [Python-Dev] Multiple inheritance from builtin (C) types [still] supported in Python3?

Hi Paul, On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 21:42:02 +0300 Paul Sokolovsky wrote: > > > > Basically, if two classes have compatible layouts, you can inherit > > from both at once. > > How is "compatible layout" defined? Or "layout" for that matter at > all? See Guido's answer. I don't think it's documented

Re: [Python-Dev] Multiple inheritance from builtin (C) types [still] supported in Python3?

Hello, On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 20:24:58 +0200 Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 20:45:48 +0300 > Paul Sokolovsky wrote: > > > > So, is that it, or disjoint native types are supported as bases > > somehow? Also, would someone know if a class-subclass case happens > > for example in stdlib

Re: [Python-Dev] API and process questions (sparked by Claudiu Popa on 16104

In article , "Jim J. Jewett" wrote: > As Claudiu pointed out, processes=1 should really mean 1 worker > process, which is still different from "do everything in the main > process". I'm not sure that level of control is really worth the > complexity, but I'm not certain it isn't. For regrtest,

Re: [Python-Dev] Multiple inheritance from builtin (C) types [still] supported in Python3?

Antoine's example works because list inherits from object. The more general rule "compatible layout" only allows the rarest of cases to work -- basically the two classes involved must have a common base class and one of the classes must not add any C-level fields to that base class's layout. I woul

Re: [Python-Dev] Multiple inheritance from builtin (C) types [still] supported in Python3?

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 20:45:48 +0300 Paul Sokolovsky wrote: > > So, is that it, or disjoint native types are supported as bases > somehow? Also, would someone know if a class-subclass case happens for > example in stdlib? Well, for instance this trivial example works: >>> class C(list, object): p

Re: [Python-Dev] file objects guarantees

File objects historically have a pretty vague spec. E.g. it's not defined which methods are supported beyond read() and readline() (for readers) or write() (for writers). Short writes shouldn't be allowed (a regular file object's write() doesn't even return a value for this reason). This means tha

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7. on Windows

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 19:52:48 +1200 Mike Miller wrote: > > I thought this might be a good time to make a final plea to fix a > long-standing security issue in the installer on Windows. By default it > installs Python to the root folder, thereby bypassing filesystem permissions: > > http://bugs.p

Re: [Python-Dev] pep8 reasoning

On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 6:34 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > I would agree with having at least one example done with one arg per > line. > > Is it really necessary? I think that one-arg-per-line is an obvious > variation of the existing example. > not really -- a lot of folks learn more from foll

Re: [Python-Dev] pep8 reasoning

On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Apr 27, 2014, at 12:34 PM, Chris Barker wrote: > >foo = long_function_name(var_one, > > var_two, > > var_three, > >

Re: [Python-Dev] API and process questions (sparked by Claudiu Popa on 16104

2014-04-28 18:29 GMT+01:00 Jim J. Jewett : > On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Charles-François Natali > wrote: >> Why would the user care if multiprocessing is used behind the scene? > > Err ... that was another set of questions that I forgot to ask. > > (A) Why bother raising an error if multip

[Python-Dev] Multiple inheritance from builtin (C) types [still] supported in Python3?

Hello, It's more or less known fact (ref: google) that you can't inherit from multiple generic builtin (as in "coded in C") types: class C(dict, list): pass TypeError: multiple bases have instance lay-out conflict However, more detailed googling led me to this page of a book: http://books.googl

[Python-Dev] file objects guarantees

Hi, What's meant exactly by a "file object"? Let me be more specific: for example, pickle.dump() accepts a "file object". Looking at the code, it doesn't check the return value of its write() method. So it assumes that write() should always write the whole data (not partial write). Same thing

Re: [Python-Dev] API and process questions (sparked by Claudiu Popa on 16104

On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Charles-François Natali wrote: > Why would the user care if multiprocessing is used behind the scene? Err ... that was another set of questions that I forgot to ask. (A) Why bother raising an error if multiprocessing is unavailable? After all, there is a perfec

Re: [Python-Dev] API and process questions (sparked by Claudiu Popa on 16104

And incidentally, I think that the argument *processes* should be renamed to *workers*, or *jobs* (like in make), and any mention of multiprocessing in the documentation should be removed (if any): multiprocessing is an implementation detail. When I type: make -jN I don't really care that make is

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7. on Windows

Mike Miller wrote: > I thought this might be a good time to make a final plea to fix a > long-standing security issue in the installer on Windows. By default it > installs > Python to the root folder, thereby bypassing filesystem permissions: > >http://bugs.python.org/issue1284316 This would be a

Re: [Python-Dev] API and process questions (sparked by Claudiu Popa on 16104

>> (2) The patch adds new functionality to use multiple processes in >> parallel. The normal parameter values are integers indicating how >> many processes to use. The parameter also needs two special values -- >> one to indicate "use os.cpu_count", and the other to indicate "don't >> use multip

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7. on Windows

Mike Miller wrote: > The main rationale given (for not using the standard %ProgramFiles%) has been > that the full path to python is too long to type, and ease of use is more > important than the security benefits given by following Windows conventions. "C:\Program Files\Python27" contains an

Re: [Python-Dev] API and process questions (sparked by Claudiu Popa on 16104

On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 6:32 PM, Jim J. Jewett wrote: > (1) Should fixes to a docstring go in with a patch, even if they > aren't related to the changing functionality? > > Bytestring compilation has several orthogonal parameters. Most -- but > not all -- are documented in the docstring. (Speci

[Python-Dev] API and process questions (sparked by Claudiu Popa on 16104

On Mon Apr 28 2014 at 11:32:58 AM, Jim J. Jewett wrote: > (1) Should fixes to a docstring go in with a patch, even if they > aren't related to the changing functionality? > It should probably be its own commit. > > Bytestring compilation has several orthogonal parameters. Most -- but > not a

[Python-Dev] API and process questions (sparked by Claudiu Popa on 16104

(1) Should fixes to a docstring go in with a patch, even if they aren't related to the changing functionality? Bytestring compilation has several orthogonal parameters. Most -- but not all -- are documented in the docstring. (Specifically, there is no explanation of the rx parameter which acts

[Python-Dev] Python 2.7.7. on Windows

Greetings, I've just woken up and noticed Python 2.7.7 is on track to be released, and in a rather unique event contains a few security enhancements in addition to the usual fixes: http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0466/ I thought this might be a good time to make a final plea to fix a lo

[Python-Dev] Add calloc-like memory allocators to Python

Hi, We made progress on the following issue and the latest patch (calloc-5.patch) is ready for a review: http://bugs.python.org/issue21233 This issue should help numpy to reuse Python memory allocators to use the new tracemalloc module of Python 3.4. The issue is only for Python 3.5. It was also