Re: [Python-Dev] Slow down...

2018-05-08 Thread Greg Ewing
Serhiy Storchaka wrote: Like tab-delimited tables. No, the obvious way to do tables is to allow HTML-marked-up source code. There would be other benefits to that as well. For example we could decree that all keywords must be formatted in bold, and then there would be no trouble adding new keyw

Re: [Python-Dev] Slow down...

2018-05-08 Thread Ben Finney
Serhiy Storchaka writes: > 09.05.18 07:25, Steven D'Aprano пише: > > If we could look forward to 2028, when we're running Python 3.14 or so > > (4.7 if you prefer), how many fantastic language features that we cannot > > bear to give up would we be missing out on? > > Like tab-delimited tables.

Re: [Python-Dev] Slow down...

2018-05-08 Thread Tim Peters
[Steven D'Aprano ] > ... > If we could look forward to 2028, when we're running Python 3.14 or so > (4.7 if you prefer), how many fantastic language features that we cannot > bear to give up would we be missing out on? This, for just one: k = 6 if >!{myobj.meth(arg)[2]} elsenone 7 elsenan 8 e

Re: [Python-Dev] Slow down...

2018-05-08 Thread Serhiy Storchaka
09.05.18 07:25, Steven D'Aprano пише: If we could look forward to 2028, when we're running Python 3.14 or so (4.7 if you prefer), how many fantastic language features that we cannot bear to give up would we be missing out on? Like tab-delimited tables. _

Re: [Python-Dev] Slow down...

2018-05-08 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Mon, May 07, 2018 at 10:23:32PM +0200, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Mon, 07 May 2018 19:19:28 + > Ryan Gonzalez wrote: > > 10 years feels like a simultaneously long and arbitrary limit. IMO a policy > > of "try to avoid major language features for a while" would work better. > > I would remo

Re: [Python-Dev] Slow down...

2018-05-08 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Mon, May 07, 2018 at 10:21:13AM -0700, Glenn Linderman wrote: > Dan's original comment about language versus library is interesting, > though. It is probably true that one should resist adding language where > library suffices, but sometimes a lack of certain expressiveness in the > language

Re: [Python-Dev] Slow down...

2018-05-08 Thread David Mertz
This seems like a rather bad idea. None of the core changes in the last few versions were on the radar 10 years in advance. And likewise, no one really knows what new issues will become critical over the next 10. The asyncio module and the async/await keywords only developed as important concerns

Re: [Python-Dev] Slow down...

2018-05-08 Thread Eric V. Smith
> On May 8, 2018, at 11:48 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 8 May 2018 at 08:26 Craig Rodrigues wrote: >>> On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 2:24 PM Barry Warsaw wrote: >>> On May 7, 2018, at 11:49, Craig Rodrigues wrote: >>> > >>> > Would it be reasonable to request a 10 year moratorium on m

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

2018-05-08 Thread Chris Angelico
On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 2:53 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > 08.05.18 19:10, Ethan Furman пише: >>> >>> X.Y+1: added a deprecation warning. Many users need to support only two >>> recent versions and can move to using the >>> replacement now. >> >> >> I'm curious how you arrived at this conclusion?

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

2018-05-08 Thread Serhiy Storchaka
08.05.18 19:10, Ethan Furman пише: X.Y+1: added a deprecation warning. Many users need to support only two recent versions and can move to using the replacement now. I'm curious how you arrived at this conclusion?  I know I've only worked at two different Python-using companies, but neither a

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

2018-05-08 Thread Serhiy Storchaka
04.05.18 22:08, Matthias Bussonnier пише: Maybe to push people forward, but from experience it is hard to predict future, so saying when it _will_ be remove is hard. Right. But the data of removing is usually specified when the code for removing already is written, or even merged in the next

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

2018-05-08 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Tue, May 08, 2018 at 03:20:50PM +0200, Stéphane Blondon wrote: > I wonder if it would be interesting to have a package available by > pypi.org which would provide the removed features. [...] > Cons: > - it pushes the question to how many times the previous behavior should > be maintained from

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

2018-05-08 Thread Serhiy Storchaka
08.05.18 18:51, Joni Orponen пише: If one can import from the future can one can also import from the past? One can move removed feature to a third-party module and import them from it. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

2018-05-08 Thread Ethan Furman
On 05/04/2018 11:48 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: 04.05.18 20:57, Matthias Bussonnier пише: But when I hit a DeprecationWarning message there is one crucial piece of information missing most of the time: Since which version number it's deprecated (and sometime since when the replacement is avail

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

2018-05-08 Thread Joni Orponen
On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 3:20 PM, Stéphane Blondon wrote: > Le 02/05/2018 à 11:11, Victor Stinner a écrit : > > * Communicate on python-dev, Twitter, Python Insider blog, etc. > > * Collaborate with major Python projects to help them to migrate the > alternative > > I wonder if it would be interest

Re: [Python-Dev] Slow down...

2018-05-08 Thread Brett Cannon
On Tue, 8 May 2018 at 08:26 Craig Rodrigues wrote: > On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 2:24 PM Barry Warsaw wrote: > >> On May 7, 2018, at 11:49, Craig Rodrigues wrote: >> > >> > Would it be reasonable to request a 10 year moratorium on making >> changes to the core Python language, >> > and for the next

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 575 (Unifying function/method classes) update

2018-05-08 Thread Jeroen Demeyer
On 2018-05-06 09:35, Nick Coghlan wrote: Thanks for this update Jeroen! If it doesn't come up otherwise, I'll try to claim one of the lightning talk slots at the Language Summit to discuss this with folks in person :) Sounds great! I'd love to hear what people think. As an example of how the n

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

2018-05-08 Thread Stéphane Blondon
Le 02/05/2018 à 11:11, Victor Stinner a écrit : > * Communicate on python-dev, Twitter, Python Insider blog, etc. > * Collaborate with major Python projects to help them to migrate the > alternative I wonder if it would be interesting to have a package available by pypi.org which would provide th

Re: [Python-Dev] Slow down...

2018-05-08 Thread Craig Rodrigues
On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 2:24 PM Barry Warsaw wrote: > On May 7, 2018, at 11:49, Craig Rodrigues wrote: > > > > Would it be reasonable to request a 10 year moratorium on making changes > to the core Python language, > > and for the next 10 years only focus on things that do not require core > lang