Re: [Python-Dev] Custom AIX build last week...

2018-10-29 Thread Michael Felt
I did a bit of digging and it seems this is related to issue35059, and something about "inline" processing. Besides learning how to clone a PR manually (which I will need to do) - what are you hoping to find? As my bot is not using gcc ( but xlc) I could look at manually compiling a single file

[Python-Dev] Custom AIX build last week...

2018-10-29 Thread Michael Felt
I noticed that there was a "custom" build queued for my AIX build-bot last week. (https://buildbot.python.org/all/#/builders/159/builds/1). It failed, but I hope that was due to the issue with install.sh. If it could be run again - and if it fails again, please let me know what the test was, an

Re: [Python-Dev] short-circuiting runtime errors/exceptions in python debugger.

2018-10-29 Thread Steve Dower
On 29Oct2018 1709, Nathaniel Smith wrote: > I also wonder if it would be useful to give pdb the ability to break > when an exception is *raised*, rather than when it's caught? This is basically the first feature I implemented as an intern at Microsoft back in 2011 :) (for Visual Studio's Python de

[Python-Dev] Julien Palard joins the Python Release Team as Documentation Expert

2018-10-29 Thread Ned Deily
https://discuss.python.org/t/julien-palard-joins-the-python-release-team-as-documentation-expert/313 -- Ned Deily n...@python.org -- [] ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe

Re: [Python-Dev] Rename Include/internals/ to Include/pycore/

2018-10-29 Thread Benjamin Peterson
On Mon, Oct 29, 2018, at 05:38, Victor Stinner wrote: > Le lun. 29 oct. 2018 à 06:32, Benjamin Peterson a écrit > : > > > My overall approach is to make sure that we don't leak functions by > > > mistakes into the public API or into the stable API anymore. For > > > example, if a function is re

Re: [Python-Dev] Standardize error message for non-pickleable types

2018-10-29 Thread MRAB
On 2018-10-29 22:21, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 08:51:34PM +0100, Victor Stinner wrote: Le lun. 29 oct. 2018 à 20:42, Serhiy Storchaka a écrit : > 1. "pickle" or "serialize"? serialize -1 Serializing is more general; pickle is merely one form of serializing: https://en.

Re: [Python-Dev] short-circuiting runtime errors/exceptions in python debugger.

2018-10-29 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 10/29/2018 3:07 PM, Greg Ewing wrote: When I have a bug that only happens after hours of run time, I try to find a much shorter test case that reproduces it. Mmm. Yeah.  But that's often a guessing game, with a low chance of success. ___ Python-Dev

Re: [Python-Dev] short-circuiting runtime errors/exceptions in python debugger.

2018-10-29 Thread Chris Angelico
On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 11:10 AM Nathaniel Smith wrote: > I also wonder if it would be useful to give pdb the ability to break > when an exception is *raised*, rather than when it's caught? This is veering into python-ideas territory (or even python-list), but the first big concern that comes to

Re: [Python-Dev] short-circuiting runtime errors/exceptions in python debugger.

2018-10-29 Thread Nathaniel Smith
On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 11:59 AM, Chris Jerdonek wrote: > A simpler feature that could possibly help him (assuming there isn't any > external state to deal with) would be the ability to save everything at a > certain point in time, and then resume it later. He could rig things up to > save the sta

Re: [Python-Dev] Standardize error message for non-pickleable types

2018-10-29 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 08:51:34PM +0100, Victor Stinner wrote: > Le lun. 29 oct. 2018 à 20:42, Serhiy Storchaka a écrit : > > 1. "pickle" or "serialize"? > > serialize -1 Serializing is more general; pickle is merely one form of serializing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_data_se

Re: [Python-Dev] Standardize error message for non-pickleable types

2018-10-29 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 09:17:12PM +, MRAB wrote: > Therefore, my preference is for: > > "cannot pickle 'XXX' object" +1 I completely concur with MRAB. -- Steve ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mail

Re: [Python-Dev] short-circuiting runtime errors/exceptions in python debugger.

2018-10-29 Thread Greg Ewing
When I have a bug that only happens after hours of run time, I try to find a much shorter test case that reproduces it. -- Greg ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://m

Re: [Python-Dev] Standardize error message for non-pickleable types

2018-10-29 Thread Terry Reedy
On 10/29/2018 5:17 PM, MRAB wrote: On 2018-10-29 19:38, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: When you try to to pickle or copy a non-pickleable object, you will get an error. In most cases this will be a TypeError with one of few similar, but different variants:     "can't pickle XXX objects" (default)    

Re: [Python-Dev] short-circuiting runtime errors/exceptions in the python debugger.

2018-10-29 Thread Ed Peschko
Steve, thanks for the response, and yes, I've experimented with reverse debugging, and yes for the reasons specified in that article you gave it isn't really practical with anything but small projects because of the massive amounts of memory usage. But that's really not what I'm asking for here.

Re: [Python-Dev] Standardize error message for non-pickleable types

2018-10-29 Thread MRAB
On 2018-10-29 19:38, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: When you try to to pickle or copy a non-pickleable object, you will get an error. In most cases this will be a TypeError with one of few similar, but different variants: "can't pickle XXX objects" (default) "Cannot serialize XXX object" (socke

Re: [Python-Dev] Standardize error message for non-pickleable types

2018-10-29 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 10/29/2018 12:51 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: Le lun. 29 oct. 2018 à 20:42, Serhiy Storchaka a écrit : 1. "pickle" or "serialize"? serialize 2. "can't", "Cannot", "can not" or "cannot"? cannot 3. "object" or "objects"? object 4. Use the "a" article or not? no: "cannot serialize xxx ob

Re: [Python-Dev] Rename Include/internals/ to Include/pycore/

2018-10-29 Thread Michael Felt
My short comment: +1 My longer comment: for someone who is not trying to be caught up in "internals" I find it extremely difficult to work with the "default" approach described below - trying to mentally understand, and remember what those macros mean/do as I got "bug-hunting". Ultimately, hav

Re: [Python-Dev] Standardize error message for non-pickleable types

2018-10-29 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Oct 29, 2018, at 12:51, Victor Stinner wrote: > >> 4. Use the "a" article or not? > > no: "cannot serialize xxx object" (but i'm not a native english > speaker, so don't trust me :-)) It should be fine to leave off the indefinite article. > >> 5. Use quotes around type name or not? Ideall

Re: [Python-Dev] short-circuiting runtime errors/exceptions in python debugger.

2018-10-29 Thread Chris Jerdonek
I have another idea on this. What about the idea of starting the program, and then a few minutes later, starting the same program a second time. If the first program errors, you could examine the second one which is a little bit behind. Before starting the second one, perhaps you could even make a

Re: [Python-Dev] Standardize error message for non-pickleable types

2018-10-29 Thread Victor Stinner
Le lun. 29 oct. 2018 à 20:42, Serhiy Storchaka a écrit : > 1. "pickle" or "serialize"? serialize > 2. "can't", "Cannot", "can not" or "cannot"? cannot > 3. "object" or "objects"? object > 4. Use the "a" article or not? no: "cannot serialize xxx object" (but i'm not a native english speaker,

[Python-Dev] Standardize error message for non-pickleable types

2018-10-29 Thread Serhiy Storchaka
When you try to to pickle or copy a non-pickleable object, you will get an error. In most cases this will be a TypeError with one of few similar, but different variants: "can't pickle XXX objects" (default) "Cannot serialize XXX object" (socket, BZ2Compressor, BZ2Decompressor) "can not se

Re: [Python-Dev] short-circuiting runtime errors/exceptions in python debugger.

2018-10-29 Thread Chris Jerdonek
A simpler feature that could possibly help him (assuming there isn't any external state to deal with) would be the ability to save everything at a certain point in time, and then resume it later. He could rig things up to save the state e.g. after every hour: 1 hour, 2 hours, etc. Then if an error

[Python-Dev] AIX build-bots broken for 11 days

2018-10-29 Thread Michael Felt
a) I wish I seen this earlier, but I have been away from OSS for the last weeks as my RL job has priority. b) to answer a very different question I needed to look at the current (Always FAIL) status of the the two AIX buildbots - and I saw that 11 days ago they both started failing with the fol

Re: [Python-Dev] short-circuiting runtime errors/exceptions in python debugger.

2018-10-29 Thread Armin Rigo
Hi, On Sat, 27 Oct 2018 at 01:50, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > [...] > > So I was wondering if it would be possible to keep that context around > > if you are in the debugger and rewind the execution point to before > > the statement was triggered. > > I think what you are looking for is a reverse de

Re: [Python-Dev] Helping with Documentation

2018-10-29 Thread Ned Deily
On Oct 29, 2018, at 07:04, Kenneth Reitz wrote: > I’d like to become a core contributor to Python, by contributing polish to > its documentation (adding missing pieces, modernize it a bit in spots, add > more usage examples (itertools), etc). > > Is anyone already working on this, and if so, c

Re: [Python-Dev] Helping with Documentation

2018-10-29 Thread Brian Curtin
On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 9:36 AM Kenneth Reitz wrote: > Hello all, > > > > I’d like to become a core contributor to Python, by contributing polish to > its documentation (adding missing pieces, modernize it a bit in spots, add > more usage examples (itertools), etc). > > > > Is anyone already work

[Python-Dev] Helping with Documentation

2018-10-29 Thread Kenneth Reitz
Hello all, I’d like to become a core contributor to Python, by contributing polish to its documentation (adding missing pieces, modernize it a bit in spots, add more usage examples (itertools), etc). Is anyone already working on this, and if so, can I join forces with you? -- Kenneth Reitz __

Re: [Python-Dev] Rename Include/internals/ to Include/pycore/

2018-10-29 Thread Victor Stinner
Le lun. 29 oct. 2018 à 06:32, Benjamin Peterson a écrit : > > My overall approach is to make sure that we don't leak functions by > > mistakes into the public API or into the stable API anymore. For > > example, if a function is really for the core, put it in pycore/. It > > will be more explicit