Re: [Python-Dev] General concerns about C API changes

2018-11-13 Thread Nathaniel Smith
To me, the "new C API" discussion and the "converting macros into inline functions" discussions are very different, almost unrelated. There are always lots of small C API changes happening, and AFAIK the macros->inline changes fall into that category. It sounds like you want to discuss whether

Re: [Python-Dev] Experiment an opt-in new C API for Python? (leave current API unchanged)

2018-11-13 Thread Nathaniel Smith
On Sun, Nov 11, 2018 at 3:19 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: > I'm not sure yet how far we should go towards a perfect API which > doesn't leak everything. We have to move slowly, and make sure that we > don't break major C extensions. We need to write tools to fully > automate the conversion. If it's

[Python-Dev] General concerns about C API changes

2018-11-13 Thread Raymond Hettinger
Overall, I support the efforts to improve the C API, but over the last few weeks have become worried. I don't want to hold up progress with fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Yet, I would like to be more comfortable that we're all aware of what is occurring and what are the potential benefits and

Re: [Python-Dev] Experiment an opt-in new C API for Python? (leave current API unchanged)

2018-11-13 Thread Nathaniel Smith
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 10:46 PM, Gregory P. Smith wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 5:50 PM Nathaniel Smith wrote: >> >> On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 4:30 PM, Victor Stinner >> wrote: >> > Ah, important points. I don't want to touch the current C API nor make >> > it less efficient. And

Re: [Python-Dev] Experiment an opt-in new C API for Python? (leave current API unchanged)

2018-11-13 Thread Victor Stinner
Le mar. 13 nov. 2018 à 20:32, André Malo a écrit : > As long as they are recompiled. However, they will lose a lot of performance. > Both these points have been mentioned somewhere, I'm certain, but it cannot be > stressed enough, IMHO. Somewhere is here:

Re: [Python-Dev] Experiment an opt-in new C API for Python? (leave current API unchanged)

2018-11-13 Thread André Malo
Victor Stinner wrote: > Replacing macros with functions has little impact on backward > compatibility. Most C extensions should still work if macros become > functions. As long as they are recompiled. However, they will lose a lot of performance. Both these points have been mentioned somewhere,

Re: [Python-Dev] Experiment an opt-in new C API for Python? (leave current API unchanged)

2018-11-13 Thread André Malo
Victor Stinner wrote: > Replacing macros with functions has little impact on backward > compatibility. Most C extensions should still work if macros become > functions. As long as they are recompiled. However, they will lose a lot of performance. Both these points have been mentioned somewhere,

Re: [Python-Dev] Experiment an opt-in new C API for Python? (leave current API unchanged)

2018-11-13 Thread Victor Stinner
Le mar. 13 nov. 2018 à 08:13, Gregory P. Smith a écrit : > When things have only ever been macros (Py_INCREF, etc) the name can be > reused if there has never been a function of that name in an old C API. But > beware of reuse for anything where the semantics change to avoid >