Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library

On 23/05/2019 02.58, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 01:31:18PM +0200, Christian Heimes wrote: >> On 22/05/2019 12.19, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >>> I don't think this PEP should become a document about "Why you should >>> use PAM". I appreciate that from your perspective as a Red Ha

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library

On 5/22/2019 4:09 AM, Christian Heimes wrote: On 22/05/2019 01.11, Glenn Linderman wrote: On 5/21/2019 2:00 PM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 10:43 AM Glenn Linderman wrote: After maintaining my own version of http.server to fix or workaround some of its deficiencies for som

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library

On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 01:31:18PM +0200, Christian Heimes wrote: > On 22/05/2019 12.19, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > I don't think this PEP should become a document about "Why you should > > use PAM". I appreciate that from your perspective as a Red Hat security > > guy, you want everyone to use b

Re: [Python-Dev] Python in next Windows 10 update

On Thu, May 23, 2019, 12:17 AM Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev < python-dev@python.org> wrote: > On 22.05.2019 23:52, Steve Dower wrote: > > On 22May2019 1309, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: > >> As someone whose job is to diagnose and fix problems with running > software: > >> Are there patches i

Re: [Python-Dev] Python in next Windows 10 update

On 22.05.2019 23:52, Steve Dower wrote: On 22May2019 1309, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: As someone whose job is to diagnose and fix problems with running software: Are there patches in your release? Do you provide corresponding sources and debug symbols for it? You can find the sources

Re: [Python-Dev] Python in next Windows 10 update

On 22May2019 1309, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: As someone whose job is to diagnose and fix problems with running software: Are there patches in your release? Do you provide corresponding sources and debug symbols for it? You can find the sources at https://github.com/python/cpython :)

Re: [Python-Dev] Python in next Windows 10 update

On 22May2019 1237, Oscar Benjamin wrote: On Tue, 21 May 2019 at 21:32, Steve Dower wrote: In the next Windows 10 update that starts rolling out today, we (Microsoft) have added "python.exe" and "python3.exe" commands that are installed on PATH *by default* and will open the Microsoft Store at

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: update 1

My apologies for that oversight. My understanding is that many of the methods present in aifc depend heavily on audioop for reading and writing. On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 12:35 PM Nathaniel Smith wrote: > On Wed, May 22, 2019, 12:14 Sean Wallitsch > wrote: > >> Dear python-dev, >> >> I'm writing

Re: [Python-Dev] Python in next Windows 10 update

On 21.05.2019 23:30, Steve Dower wrote: Hi all Just sharing this here because I think it's important for us to be aware of it - I'm not trying to promote or sell anything here :) (Those who were at the language summit have seen this already.) In the next Windows 10 update that starts rollin

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library

On Wed, May 22, 2019, 04:32 Christian Heimes wrote: > On 22/05/2019 12.19, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > I don't think this PEP should become a document about "Why you should > > use PAM". I appreciate that from your perspective as a Red Hat security > > guy, you want everyone to use best practices

Re: [Python-Dev] Python in next Windows 10 update

On Tue, 21 May 2019 at 21:32, Steve Dower wrote: > > In the next Windows 10 update that starts rolling out today, we > (Microsoft) have added "python.exe" and "python3.exe" commands that are > installed on PATH *by default* and will open the Microsoft Store at the > page where we (Python core team

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: update 1

On Wed, May 22, 2019, 12:14 Sean Wallitsch wrote: > Dear python-dev, > > I'm writing to provide some feedback on PEP-594, primarily the proposed > deprecation and reason for the removal of the aifc and audioop libraries. > > The post production film industry continues to make heavy use of AIFFs,

[Python-Dev] Have a big machine and spare time? Here's a possible Python bug.

There's a Stackoverflow report[1] I suspect is worth looking into, but it requires far more RAM (over 80GB) than I have). The OP whittled it down to a reasonably brief & straightforward pure Python 3 program. It builds a ternary search tree, with perhaps a billion nodes. The problem is that it "t

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: update 1

Dear python-dev, I'm writing to provide some feedback on PEP-594, primarily the proposed deprecation and reason for the removal of the aifc and audioop libraries. The post production film industry continues to make heavy use of AIFFs, as completely uncompressed audio is preferred. Support for the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library

Between this discussion and Steve Dower's recently referenced blog post at https://devblogs.microsoft.com/python/python-in-the-windows-10-may-2019-update/from which I quote below: It’s been widely known for many years that Windows is the only mainstream operating system that does not include

Re: [Python-Dev] Missing testcase for bpo-34125

On 5/22/2019 5:41 AM, Jeroen Demeyer wrote: Could somebody please merge https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/13461 It adds a missing testcase for bpo-34125. This is testing code which is affected by PEP 590, so missing this test might accidentally break CPython if we screw up with implementi

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: update 1

On Wed., May 22, 2019, 03:13 Antoine Pitrou, wrote: > On Tue, 21 May 2019 17:44:16 -0700 > Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > > > So I should never have added those tests and then we wouldn't be > talking > > > about removing nntplib. > > > > > > > Not necessarily. I suspect it still would have been li

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: update 1

Christian, Please don't touch nntplib. Also I think telnetlib should stay. On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 5:44 AM Berker Peksağ wrote: > On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 7:11 PM Christian Heimes > wrote: > > > > On 21/05/2019 17.31, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > > > > > As I said, if the main annoyance with nntp

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 590 (Vectorcall) discussion

Discussion on PEP 590 (Vectorcall) has been split over several PRs, issues and e-mails, so let me post an update. I am planning to approve PEP 590 with the following changes, if Mark doesn't object to them: * https://github.com/python/peps/pull/1064 (Mark the main API as private to allow cha

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: discussion-to discuss.python.org

On Wed, 22 May 2019 at 13:28, Christian Heimes wrote: > > Please use > https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-594-removing-dead-batteries-from-the-standard-library/1704 > for feedback and discussion. > > Thank you, > Christian Out of curiosity, why? There's been a lot of useful discussion here - why

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: update 1

On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 7:11 PM Christian Heimes wrote: > > On 21/05/2019 17.31, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > > > As I said, if the main annoyance with nntplib is the sporadic test > > failures, then the relevant tests can be disabled on CI. > > > > NNTP itself is still used, even if less and less. >

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: update 1

On 22/05/2019 02.44, Brett Cannon wrote: > It also doesn't help that no one is listed in the experts index for the > module either.. Excellent point! The PEP now lists the presence / absence of experts. Christian ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev

[Python-Dev] PEP 594: discussion-to discuss.python.org

Please use https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-594-removing-dead-batteries-from-the-standard-library/1704 for feedback and discussion. Thank you, Christian ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-d

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library

On 22/05/2019 06.59, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Christian Heimes writes: > > > It's all open source. It's up to the Python community to adopt > > packages and provide them on PyPI. > > > > Python core will not maintain and distribute the packages. I'll > > merely provide a repository with

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library

On 22/05/2019 12.19, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > I don't think this PEP should become a document about "Why you should > use PAM". I appreciate that from your perspective as a Red Hat security > guy, you want everyone to use best practices as you see them, but it > isn't Python's position to convin

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library

On 22/05/2019 01.11, Glenn Linderman wrote: > On 5/21/2019 2:00 PM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: >> On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 10:43 AM Glenn Linderman >> wrote: >>> After maintaining my own version of http.server to fix or workaround some >>> of its deficiencies for some years, I discovered bottle.py. I

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library

On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 01:59:56PM -0400, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 5/21/2019 9:01 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > ... > >Many Python users don't have the privilege of being able to install > >arbitrary, unvetted packages from PyPI. They get to use only packages > >from approved vendors, including the s

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library

On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 01:59:59PM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > This looks to me like an opening to a special class of supply chain > attacks. [...] > One thing we *could* do that would require moderate effort would be to > put them up on PyPI ourselves, and require that would-be maintaine

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library

On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 10:07:31AM +0200, Christian Heimes wrote: > On 22/05/2019 06.20, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: > > It is possible to have a modern Linux desktop system with PAM not > > installed at all, and therefore not used. [...] Christian wrote: > Thanks for bringing thi

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library

2019年5月22日(水) 18:57 Steven D'Aprano : > > > All deprecated modules will also undergo a feature freeze. No additional > > features should be added. Bug should still be fixed. > > I disagree with this. If people are requesting or contributing features > to a module, that's a good sign that it *is* in

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: update 1

On Tue, 21 May 2019 17:44:16 -0700 Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > So I should never have added those tests and then we wouldn't be talking > > about removing nntplib. > > > > Not necessarily. I suspect it still would have been listed, you would have > objected, and someone may have looked at the t

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library

On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 01:13:30PM -0400, Edwin Zimmerman wrote: [...] [-- Attachment #2: winmail.dat --] [-- Type: application/ms-tnef, Encoding: base64, Size: 8.4K --] Wow! I haven't see one of those for *years* -- I haven't noticed one for about 15 years, and I thought it was an obsolete form

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library

Let me be clear: I do not oppose the removal of modules where necessary, but I do not like this PEP as it stands. But full credit to Christian for graciously accepting feedback; I also acknowledge that if this PEP is accepted, we still have at least two releases to change our minds about indivi

[Python-Dev] Missing testcase for bpo-34125

Could somebody please merge https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/13461 It adds a missing testcase for bpo-34125. This is testing code which is affected by PEP 590, so missing this test might accidentally break CPython if we screw up with implementing PEP 590. Thanks, Jeroen. ___

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library

Neil Schemenauer writes: > Here is an alternative, straw man, proposal. Split the CPython repo > into two parts: > > - core Python: minimal possible stdlib > - everything else I take issue with the characterization of "straw man," it's a practical idea that turns out to be not so e

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library

On 22/05/2019 08.30, Giampaolo Rodola' wrote: > > > On Tue, 21 May 2019 at 04:30, Antoine Pitrou > wrote: > > > NNTP is still quite used (often through GMane, but probably not only) so > I'd question the removal of nntplib. > > > I concur nntplib should be

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 594: Removing dead batteries from the standard library

On 22/05/2019 06.20, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: > 2019-05-21 00:06 UTC+02:00, Christian Heimes wrote: >> On 20/05/2019 23.27, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >>> Removing the crypt module would remove support for system-standard >>> password files. I don't understand the rationale. >> >> Ap