On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 11:29 PM Terry Reedy wrote:
>
> On 2/9/2021 8:28 PM, Inada Naoki wrote:
>
> > Note that many Python users don't use consoles.
>
> Those of use who do may find it hard to imagine just how easy we have
> made computing.
>
> My daughter minored in Computer Science about 6 years
On 2/9/2021 8:28 PM, Inada Naoki wrote:
Note that many Python users don't use consoles.
Those of use who do may find it hard to imagine just how easy we have
made computing.
My daughter minored in Computer Science about 6 years ago. She never
saw Command Prompt until the summer after her
On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 5:50 AM Paul Moore wrote:
>
> On Tue, 9 Feb 2021 at 16:54, Inada Naoki wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 9:31 PM Paul Moore wrote:
> > >
> > > Personally, I'm not at all keen on the idea of making users always
> > > specify encoding in the first place, even if it's "j
On 2/9/21 9:15 PM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
09.02.21 12:22, Erlend Aasland пише:
What's the recommended approach with issues like
https://bugs.python.org/issue43094? Change the docs or the implementation? I
did a quick search on bpo, but could not find similar past issues.
If the documentatio
On Tue, 9 Feb 2021 at 16:54, Inada Naoki wrote:
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 9:31 PM Paul Moore wrote:
> >
> > Personally, I'm not at all keen on the idea of making users always
> > specify encoding in the first place, even if it's "just for the
> > transition".
>
> I agree with you. But as I wrote
On Tue., Feb. 9, 2021, 12:20 Serhiy Storchaka, wrote:
> 09.02.21 12:22, Erlend Aasland пише:
> > What's the recommended approach with issues like
> https://bugs.python.org/issue43094? Change the docs or the
> implementation? I did a quick search on bpo, but could not find similar
> past issues.
>
09.02.21 12:22, Erlend Aasland пише:
> What's the recommended approach with issues like
> https://bugs.python.org/issue43094? Change the docs or the implementation? I
> did a quick search on bpo, but could not find similar past issues.
If the documentation and the C implemented function contradi
On 2/9/2021 11:21 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
I think we have reached consensus on PEP 647 in typing-sig. We have
implementations for mypy and pyright, not sure about the rest. This PEP
does not affect CPython directly except for the addition of one special
item (TypeGuard) to typing.py -- it w
> On 9 Feb 2021, at 11:22, Erlend Aasland wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> What's the recommended approach with issues like
> https://bugs.python.org/issue43094? Change the docs or the implementation? I
> did a quick search on bpo, but could not find similar past issues.
>
>
>
> Erlend
To provide
I raised https://bugs.python.org/issue43155 for the missing
PyCMethod_New that was added in 3.9 but is missing from the
python3.lib.
Barry
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On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 5:51 PM Anders Munch wrote:
> Victor Stinner [mailto:vstin...@python.org] wrote:
> > The warning can explicitly suggest to use encoding="utf8", it should work
> > in almost all cases.
>
> The warning should also explain how to get backwards-compatible behaviour,
> i.e. sug
On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 1:46 AM Anders Munch wrote:
>
>
> Inada Naoki wrote:
> > This warning is opt-in warning like BytesWarning.
>
> What use is a warning that no-one sees?
At least, I see.
We can fix stdlib and tests first, and fix some major tools too.
After that, `encoding="locale"` becom
On Tue, 9 Feb 2021 at 16:52, Anders Munch wrote:
> How about swapping around "locale" and None? That is, make "locale" the new
> default that emits a warning, and encoding=None emits no warning. That has
> the advantage that old code can be updated to say encoding=None, and then it
> will wor
On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 9:31 PM Paul Moore wrote:
>
> Personally, I'm not at all keen on the idea of making users always
> specify encoding in the first place, even if it's "just for the
> transition".
I agree with you. But as I wrote in the PEP, omitted encoding caused
much troubles already.
Wind
Victor Stinner [mailto:vstin...@python.org] wrote:
> The warning can explicitly suggest to use encoding="utf8", it should work in
> almost all cases.
The warning should also explain how to get backwards-compatible behaviour, i.e.
suggest encoding="locale".
Inada Naoki wrote:
> This warning i
On Tue, 9 Feb 2021 at 16:28, Inada Naoki wrote:
>
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 1:19 AM Paul Moore wrote:
> >
> > But people who currently don't specify the encoding, and *don't* have
> > any issue (because the system locale is correct) will be getting told
> > to introduce a bug into their code, if
On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 1:19 AM Paul Moore wrote:
>
> But people who currently don't specify the encoding, and *don't* have
> any issue (because the system locale is correct) will be getting told
> to introduce a bug into their code, if they follow that advice :-(
>
This warning is opt-in warning
I think we have reached consensus on PEP 647 in typing-sig. We have
implementations for mypy and pyright, not sure about the rest. This PEP
does not affect CPython directly except for the addition of one special
item (TypeGuard) to typing.py -- it would be nice to get that in the 3.10
stdlib.
I'm
But people who currently don't specify the encoding, and *don't* have
any issue (because the system locale is correct) will be getting told
to introduce a bug into their code, if they follow that advice :-(
Paul
On Tue, 9 Feb 2021 at 16:03, Victor Stinner wrote:
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 1:31 P
On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 1:31 PM Paul Moore wrote:
> If we can't provide a good recommendation
> to the user on what to do, we shouldn't be warning them that what they
> are currently doing is wrong.
The warning can explicitly suggest to use encoding="utf8", it should
work in almost all cases.
Vic
On Tue, 9 Feb 2021 at 11:55, Inada Naoki wrote:
> I think only we can do is documenting the option like this:
>
> """
> EncodingWarning is warning to find missing encoding="utf-8" option. It
> is common pitfall that many Windows user
> Don't try to fix them if you need to use locale specific enco
On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 7:23 PM Victor Stinner wrote:
>
> I recall that something like 1 year ago, I basically tried to
> implement something like your PEP, to see if the stdlib calls open()
> without specifying an encoding. There were so many warnings, that the
> output was barely readable.
>
> Th
Hi Victor, and thanks for you reply.
> On 9 Feb 2021, at 11:46, Victor Stinner wrote:
> If there are applications relying on the parameter name, it's better
> to trust the Python implementation, rather than the documentation.
I feared that answer :)
> It would be better to make these parameters
If there are applications relying on the parameter name, it's better
to trust the Python implementation, rather than the documentation.
It would be better to make these parameters positional only in the
first place, but now it's too late for such backward incompatible
change :-(
Victor
On Tue, F
Hi all,
What's the recommended approach with issues like
https://bugs.python.org/issue43094? Change the docs or the implementation? I
did a quick search on bpo, but could not find similar past issues.
Erlend
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On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Inada Naoki wrote:
> I changed my mind. Since there is no plan to change the default
> encoding for now,
> no need to encourage `encoding="locale"` soon.
>
> Until users can drop Python 3.9 support, they can use EncodingWarning
> only for finding missing `encoding="u
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