Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

2013-09-09 Thread Martin v. Löwis
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am 06.09.13 17:14, schrieb Guido van Rossum: > I've heard good things about DTRACE but never used it myself. > > Do I understand correctly that you have to build a separate Python > executable with it turned on? My understanding is that you would no

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

2013-09-07 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 7 September 2013 19:06, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 08:57:07 +0200 > Xavier Morel wrote: >> >> On 2013-09-07, at 05:40 , Jesus Cea wrote: >> >> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> > Hash: SHA1 >> > >> > On 06/09/13 20:33, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> >> On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 18:14

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

2013-09-07 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 08:57:07 +0200 Xavier Morel wrote: > > On 2013-09-07, at 05:40 , Jesus Cea wrote: > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 06/09/13 20:33, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > >> On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 18:14:26 +0200 Jesus Cea wrote: > >>> > >>> It is intrusive. Y

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

2013-09-06 Thread Xavier Morel
On 2013-09-07, at 05:40 , Jesus Cea wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 06/09/13 20:33, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 18:14:26 +0200 Jesus Cea wrote: >>> >>> It is intrusive. Yes. I think it must be, by its own nature. >>> Probably room for improvemen

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

2013-09-06 Thread Jesus Cea
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/09/13 20:33, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 18:14:26 +0200 Jesus Cea wrote: >> >> It is intrusive. Yes. I think it must be, by its own nature. >> Probably room for improvement and code transparency. But... are >> Python-DEVs intere

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

2013-09-06 Thread Guido van Rossum
I think there are a couple of issues. - In order for the patch to be acceptable, we'd need someone to take responsibility for owning and maintaining it for at least several years. Jesus, are you willing to commit to this? - I think it's not all that important whether any core developer would want

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

2013-09-06 Thread Xavier Morel
On 2013-09-06, at 19:05 , Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 18:14:26 +0200 > Jesus Cea wrote: >> >>> Right now, I agree with Charles-François: your patch is too >>> intrusive. >> >> It is intrusive. Yes. I think it must be, by its own nature. Probably >> room for improvement and code

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

2013-09-06 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 18:14:26 +0200 Jesus Cea wrote: > > It is intrusive. Yes. I think it must be, by its own nature. Probably > room for improvement and code transparency. But... are Python-DEVs > interested in the project?. That is the point :) As a concrete data point: - here are Dave's modifi

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

2013-09-06 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Fri, 06 Sep 2013 18:14:26 +0200 Jesus Cea wrote: > > > Right now, I agree with Charles-François: your patch is too > > intrusive. > > It is intrusive. Yes. I think it must be, by its own nature. Probably > room for improvement and code transparency. But... are Python-DEVs > interested in the

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

2013-09-06 Thread Charles-François Natali
> The main value of DTrace is systemwide observability. You can see > something "strange" at kernel level and trace it to a particular line > of code in a random Python script. There is no other tool that can do > that. You have complete transversal observability of ALL the code > running in your c

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

2013-09-06 Thread Jesus Cea
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/09/13 17:29, Charles-François Natali wrote: > IMO, that's a large, intrusive patch, which distracts the reader > from the main code and logic. Yes, the patch is intrusive. It must be, to get its goals. Could be improved, nevertheless. Help and s

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

2013-09-06 Thread Jesus Cea
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/09/13 17:41, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > You should start by addressing review comments: > http://bugs.python.org/issue13405#msg151751 Antoine, my first step now is to poke Python-DEV about this subject. If the consensus is "DON'T" I will probably

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

2013-09-06 Thread Antoine Pitrou
Le Fri, 06 Sep 2013 17:08:23 +0200, Jesus Cea a écrit : > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > As far as I know, Erlang, Ruby, PHP, Perl, etc., support Dtrace. > Python is embarrasingly missing from this list. > > Some examples: > >

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

2013-09-06 Thread Charles-François Natali
> As far as I know, Erlang, Ruby, PHP, Perl, etc., support Dtrace. > Python is embarrasingly missing from this list. > > Some examples: > > > >

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

2013-09-06 Thread Jesus Cea
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/09/13 17:14, Guido van Rossum wrote: > I've heard good things about DTRACE but never used it myself. > > Do I understand correctly that you have to build a separate Python > executable with it turned on? It is a patch you apply on stock Python

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

2013-09-06 Thread Guido van Rossum
I've heard good things about DTRACE but never used it myself. Do I understand correctly that you have to build a separate Python executable with it turned on? I noticed one odd thing in the patch: apparently the dtrace module only exists to have a flag that tells whether it is enabled. Can't that

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

2013-09-06 Thread Jesus Cea
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/09/13 17:08, Jesus Cea wrote: > Does Python-Dev have any opinion or interest in this project?. > Should I push for it? I have using this code for ages on my Solaris machines: Python 2.7.5 (dtrace-issue13405_2.7:f96ea83cd766, Aug 19 2013, 02:55:

[Python-Dev] DTRACE support

2013-09-06 Thread Jesus Cea
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As far as I know, Erlang, Ruby, PHP, Perl, etc., support Dtrace. Python is embarrasingly missing from this list. Some examples: <

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

2013-09-06 Thread Skip Montanaro
> I have spend a very long time on a patch for Dtrace support in most > platforms with dtrace available. Currently working under Solaris and > derivatives, and MacOS X. Last time I checked, it would crash FreeBSD > because bugs in the dtrace port, but that was a long time ago. I looked at this sev

Re: [Python-Dev] DTRACE support

2013-09-06 Thread Jesus Cea
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/09/13 17:18, Skip Montanaro wrote: > I looked at this several years ago. As I recall, the problem at the > time was that the Apple and Sun DTrace implementations were > incompatible, or that the probes they had inserted into their own > /usr/bin/