Re: [Python-Dev] Migration from Python 2.7 and bytes formatting

2014-01-18 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Neil Schemenauer writes: > That's it. After sleeping on it, I'm not sure that's enough Python > 2.x compatibility to help a lot. I haven't ported much code to 3.x > yet but I imagine the following are major challenges: > > - comparisons between str and bytes always returns unequal > > -

Re: [Python-Dev] Migration from Python 2.7 and bytes formatting

2014-01-18 Thread Neil Schemenauer
On 2014-01-18, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > The above are descriptions of current behavior (ie, unchanged by PEPs > 460, 461), and this: [..] > is the content of this proposal, is that right? The proposal is that -2 enables the following: - %r as an alias for %a (i.e. calls ascii()) - %s wil

Re: [Python-Dev] Migration from Python 2.7 and bytes formatting

2014-01-17 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Neil Schemenauer writes: > I'd like to try porting code making use of the -2 feature to see how > helpful it is. The behavior is partway between Python 2.x laziness > and Python 3.x strictness in terms of specifying encodings. > > Python 2.x: > [...] > Python 3.x: > [...] The above are

Re: [Python-Dev] Migration from Python 2.7 and bytes formatting

2014-01-17 Thread Ryan Gonzalez
Regardless, I still feel the introduction of a switch and all that stuff is too complicated. I understand you position, since all my applications are written in Python 2(except 1). However, I don't think this is the best solution. On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Neil Schemenauer wrote: > On 20

Re: [Python-Dev] Migration from Python 2.7 and bytes formatting

2014-01-17 Thread Neil Schemenauer
Glenn Linderman wrote: > -1 overall. > > Not worth the extra complexity in documentation and command line > parameters. Really? It's less than 20 lines of code to implement, probably similar to document. With millions maybe billions of lines of existing Python 2.x code to port, I'm dismayed to

Re: [Python-Dev] Migration from Python 2.7 and bytes formatting

2014-01-17 Thread Neil Schemenauer
On 2014-01-17, Ryan Gonzalez wrote: > A command line parameter?? I believe it has to be global flag. A __future__ statement will not work. Probably we should allow the flag to be set with an environment variable as well. > The annoying part would be telling every single user to call Python with

Re: [Python-Dev] Migration from Python 2.7 and bytes formatting

2014-01-17 Thread Ryan Gonzalez
A command line parameter?? The annoying part would be telling every single user to call Python with a certain argument and hope they read the README. If it's a library, out of the question. If it's a program, well, I hope your users read READMEs. On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 4:49 AM, Neil Schemenau

Re: [Python-Dev] Migration from Python 2.7 and bytes formatting

2014-01-17 Thread Neil Schemenauer
I've refined this idea a little in my latest PEP 461 patch (issue 20284). Continuing to use %s instead of introducing %b seems better. I've called the commmand-line option -2, it could be used to enable other similar porting aids. I'd like to try porting code making use of the -2 feature to see

Re: [Python-Dev] Migration from Python 2.7 and bytes formatting

2014-01-17 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 1/17/2014 2:49 AM, Neil Schemenauer wrote: As I see it, there are two separate goals in adding formatting methods to bytes. One is to make it easier to write new programs that manipulate byte data. Another is to make it easier to upgrade Python 2.x programs to Python 3.x. Here is an idea to

[Python-Dev] Migration from Python 2.7 and bytes formatting

2014-01-17 Thread Neil Schemenauer
As I see it, there are two separate goals in adding formatting methods to bytes. One is to make it easier to write new programs that manipulate byte data. Another is to make it easier to upgrade Python 2.x programs to Python 3.x. Here is an idea to better address these separate goals. Introduce