Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-29 Thread Eli Bendersky
I have updated PEP 411, following the input from this discussion. The updated PEP is at: http://hg.python.org/peps/file/default/pep-0411.txt Changes: - Specified that a package may remain provisional for longer than a single minor release - Shortened the suggested documentation notice, linking

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-12 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Antoine Pitrou writes: I think the word provisional doesn't mean anything to many (non-native English speaking) people. I would like to suggest something clearer, e.g. experimental or unstable - which have the benefit of *already* having a meaning in other software-related contexts. I

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-11 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:06:15 +0200 Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com wrote: Following the intensive and fruitful discussion of the (now rejected) PEP 408 (http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2012-January/115850.html), we've drafted PEP 411 to summarize the conclusions with regards to

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-11 Thread Toshio Kuratomi
On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 04:32:56PM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote: This would then be seen by pydoc and help(), as well as being amenable to programmatic inspection. Would using warnings.warn('This is a provisional API and may change radically from' ' release to release',

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-11 Thread Isaac Morland
On Sat, 11 Feb 2012, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Arguably, the canonical test for whether a package is provisional or not should be the existence of __provisional__: for package in packages: if hasattr(package, '__provisional__') assert package documentation includes boilerplate

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-11 Thread Eric Snow
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 1:39 PM, Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com wrote: Is there more to it than having a simple __provisional__ attribute on the module and/or a list at sys.provisional_modules? Yes. As soon as

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-11 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 1:20 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:06:15 +0200 Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com wrote: Following the intensive and fruitful discussion of the (now rejected) PEP 408

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-11 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 2:45 AM, Isaac Morland ijmor...@uwaterloo.ca wrote: Could the documentation generator simply insert the boilerplate if and only if the package has the __provisional__ attribute?  I'm not an expert in Python documentation but isn't it generated from properly-formatted

[Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-10 Thread Eli Bendersky
Hi all, Following the intensive and fruitful discussion of the (now rejected) PEP 408 (http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2012-January/115850.html), we've drafted PEP 411 to summarize the conclusions with regards to the process of marking packages provisional. Note that this is an

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-10 Thread Brett Cannon
Other than the misspelling of maintenante instead of maintenance, LGTM. On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 09:06, Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, Following the intensive and fruitful discussion of the (now rejected) PEP 408 (

[Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-10 Thread Jim J. Jewett
Eli Bendersky wrote (in http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2012-February/116393.html ): A package will be marked provisional by including the following paragraph as a note at the top of its documentation page: I really would like some marker available from within Python itself.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-10 Thread Terry Reedy
On 2/10/2012 9:06 AM, Eli Bendersky wrote: Whenever the Python core development team decides that a new package should be included into the standard library, but isn't entirely sure about whether the package's API is optimal, the package can be included and marked as provisional. In the next

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-10 Thread Eric Snow
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Jim J. Jewett jimjjew...@gmail.com wrote: Eli Bendersky wrote (in http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2012-February/116393.html ): A package will be marked provisional by including the following paragraph as a note at the top of its documentation

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-10 Thread Steven D'Aprano
Jim J. Jewett wrote: Eli Bendersky wrote (in http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2012-February/116393.html ): A package will be marked provisional by including the following paragraph as a note at the top of its documentation page: I really would like some marker available from

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-10 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 20:33, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: Other than the misspelling of maintenante instead of maintenance, LGTM. Fixed that and another typo (thanks 'aspell' :-] ) Eli ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-10 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 22:13, Jim J. Jewett jimjjew...@gmail.com wrote: Eli Bendersky wrote (in http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2012-February/116393.html ): A package will be marked provisional by including the following paragraph as a note at the top of its documentation page:

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-10 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 23:56, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: On 2/10/2012 9:06 AM, Eli Bendersky wrote: Whenever the Python core development team decides that a new package should be included into the standard library, but isn't entirely sure about whether the package's API is

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-10 Thread Eric Snow
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 22:13, Jim J. Jewett jimjjew...@gmail.com wrote: Eli Bendersky wrote (in http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2012-February/116393.html ): A package will be marked provisional by including

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-10 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 1:39 PM, Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com wrote: Is there more to it than having a simple __provisional__ attribute on the module and/or a list at sys.provisional_modules? Yes. As soon as we touch functional code, it because something to be tested and the process

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-10 Thread Steven D'Aprano
Eric Snow wrote: On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 22:13, Jim J. Jewett jimjjew...@gmail.com wrote: Eli Bendersky wrote (in http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2012-February/116393.html ): A package will be marked