On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 00:30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Benjamin Peterson writes:
>
> > My goodness, I was trying to make a ridiculous-sounding proposition.
>
> In this kind of discussion, that's in the same class as "be careful
> what you wish for -- because you might just get it."
I wish we
Benjamin Peterson writes:
> My goodness, I was trying to make a ridiculous-sounding proposition.
In this kind of discussion, that's in the same class as "be careful
what you wish for -- because you might just get it."
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2012/1/3 Stephen J. Turnbull :
> Benjamin Peterson writes:
> > Ethan Furman stoneleaf.us> writes:
> > >
> > > Readability also includes more than just the source code; as has already
> > > been stated:
>
> [diffs elided]
>
> > > I find the diff version that already had braces in place much mo
Benjamin Peterson writes:
> Ethan Furman stoneleaf.us> writes:
> >
> > Readability also includes more than just the source code; as has already
> > been stated:
[diffs elided]
> > I find the diff version that already had braces in place much more
> > readable.
>
> There are much larg
Ethan Furman stoneleaf.us> writes:
>
> Readability also includes more than just the source code; as has already
> been stated:
>
> if(cond) {
> stmt1;
> + stmt2;
> }
>
> vs.
>
> -if(cond)
> +if(cond) {
> stmt1;
> + stmt2;
> +}
>
> I find the diff version that already had braces
> Readability also includes more than just the source code; as has already
> been stated:
>
> if(cond) {
>stmt1;
> + stmt2;
> }
>
> vs.
>
> -if(cond)
> +if(cond) {
>stmt1;
> + stmt2;
> +}
>
> I find the diff version that already had braces in place much more
> readable.
Is it reall
"Stephen J. Turnbull" writes:
> Matt Joiner writes:
>
> > Readability is the highest concern, and this should be at the
> > discretion of the contributor.
>
> That's quite backwards. "Readability" is community property, and has
> as much, if not more, to do with common convention as with some
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Matt Joiner writes:
> Readability is the highest concern, and this should be at the
> discretion of the contributor.
That's quite backwards. "Readability" is community property, and has
as much, if not more, to do with common convention as with some
absolute metric
Matt Joiner writes:
> Readability is the highest concern, and this should be at the
> discretion of the contributor.
That's quite backwards. "Readability" is community property, and has
as much, if not more, to do with common convention as with some
absolute metric. The "contributor's discret
FWIW I'm against forcing braces to be used. Readability is the highest
concern, and this should be at the discretion of the contributor. A
code formatting tool, or compiler extension is the only proper handle
this, and neither are in use or available.
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 7:44 PM, "Martin v. Löw
> He keeps leaving them out, I occasionally tell him they should always
> be included (most recently this came up when we gave conflicting
> advice to a patch contributor). He says what he's doing is OK, because
> he doesn't consider the example in PEP 7 as explicitly disallowing it,
> I think it's
On Jan 02, 2012, at 02:08 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>The irony is that style guides exist to *avoid* debates like this. Yes, the
>choices are arbitrary. Yes, tastes differ. Yes, there are exceptions to the
>rules. But still, once a style rule has been set, the idea is to stop
>debating and just
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 8:32 AM, Raymond Hettinger
> wrote:
> > Running ``grep -B1 else Objects/*c`` shows that we've happily lived
> with a
> > mixture of styles for a very long time.
> > ISTM, our committers have had good instincts about wh
On 3 January 2012 09:55, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>
> On Jan 2, 2012, at 2:09 PM, Tim Delaney wrote:
>
> I'd also point out that if you're expecting braces, not having them can
> make the code less readable.
>
>
> If a programmer's mind explodes when they look at the simple and beautiful
> example
On Jan 2, 2012, at 4:27 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> With my perception of the status quo corrected, I can stop worrying
> about preserving a non-existent consistency.
+1 QOTD
Raymond
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On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 8:32 AM, Raymond Hettinger
wrote:
> Running ``grep -B1 else Objects/*c`` shows that we've happily lived with a
> mixture of styles for a very long time.
> ISTM, our committers have had good instincts about when braces add clarity
> and when they add clutter.
> If Nick pushe
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 12:54 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> I think it's fine Nick raised this. PEP 7 is not very explicit about
> braces at all.
I actually discovered in this thread that I've been misreading PEP 7
for going on 7 years now - I thought the brace usage example *did* use
"} else {"
On 1/2/2012 5:32 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
Running ``grep -B1 else Objects/*c`` shows that we've happily lived
with a mixture of styles for a very long time.
ISTM, our committers have had good instincts about when braces add
clarity and when they add clutter.
If Nick pushes through an alwa
On Jan 2, 2012, at 2:09 PM, Tim Delaney wrote:
> I'd also point out that if you're expecting braces, not having them can make
> the code less readable.
If a programmer's mind explodes when they look at the simple and beautiful
examples in K&R's The C Programming Language, then they've got pro
On Jan 2, 2012, at 12:31 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote:
> I might add that assuming you have braces, PEP 7 would want you to format it
> as
>
> if (cond) {
>statement;
> }
> else {
>more_stuff;
> }
>
Running ``grep -B1 else Objects/*c`` shows that we've happily lived with a
mixture o
On 3 January 2012 08:50, Larry Hastings wrote:
> On 01/02/2012 12:47 AM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>
>> Really? Do we need to have a brace war?
>> People have different preferences.
>> The standard library includes some of both styles
>> depending on what the maintainer thought was cleanest to th
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 1:50 PM, Larry Hastings wrote:
> On 01/02/2012 12:47 AM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
>
>> Really? Do we need to have a brace war?
>> People have different preferences.
>> The standard library includes some of both styles
>> depending on what the maintainer thought was cleanes
On 01/02/2012 12:47 AM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
Really? Do we need to have a brace war?
People have different preferences.
The standard library includes some of both styles
depending on what the maintainer thought was cleanest to their eyes in a given
context.
I'm with Raymond. Code should
2012/1/1 Nick Coghlan :
>
> if (cond) {
> statement;
> } else {
> statement;
> }
I might add that assuming you have braces, PEP 7 would want you to format it as
if (cond) {
statement;
}
else {
more_stuff;
}
--
Regards,
Benjamin
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On 01/02/2012 01:02 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Scott Dial
> wrote:
>> On 1/1/2012 11:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>>> I think it's a recipe for future maintenance hassles when someone
>>> adds a second statement to one of
2012/1/1 Nick Coghlan :
> I've been having an occasional argument with Benjamin regarding braces
> in 4-line if statements:
Python's C code has been dropping braces long before I ever arrived.
See this beautiful example in dictobject.c, for example:
if (numfree < PyDict_MAXFREELIST && Py_TYPE
On 1/1/2012 11:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
I've been having an occasional argument with Benjamin regarding braces
in 4-line if statements:
if (cond)
statement;
else
statement;
vs.
if (cond) {
statement;
} else {
statement;
}
He keeps leaving them out, I occas
Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> I don't like having the else on the same line as the closing brace,
> and prefer:
>
>if (cond) {
>statement;
>}
>else {
>statement;
>}
And this is how it's written in PEP-7. It seems to me that PEP-7
doesn't require braces. But it explicitly
On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 14:44:49 +1000
Nick Coghlan wrote:
> I've been having an occasional argument with Benjamin regarding braces
> in 4-line if statements:
>
> if (cond)
> statement;
> else
> statement;
>
> vs.
>
> if (cond) {
> statement;
> } else {
> statement;
> }
Go
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 6:47 PM, Raymond Hettinger
wrote:
> Really? Do we need to have a brace war?
> People have different preferences.
> The standard library includes some of both styles
> depending on what the maintainer thought was cleanest to their eyes in a
> given context.
If the answer i
On Jan 1, 2012, at 8:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> I've been having an occasional argument with Benjamin regarding braces
> in 4-line if statements:
>
> if (cond)
>statement;
> else
>statement;
>
> vs.
>
> if (cond) {
>statement;
> } else {
>statement;
> }
Really? Do we
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 4:22 PM, Ron Adam wrote:
> The problem is only when an additional statement is added to the last
> block, not the preceding ones, as the compiler will complain about
> those. So I don't know how the 4 line example without braces is any
> worse than a 2 line if without brace
On Mon, 2012-01-02 at 14:44 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> I've been having an occasional argument with Benjamin regarding braces
> in 4-line if statements:
>
> if (cond)
> statement;
> else
> statement;
>
> vs.
>
> if (cond) {
> statement;
> } else {
> statement;
> }
>
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Scott Dial
wrote:
> On 1/1/2012 11:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>> I think it's a recipe for future maintenance hassles when someone adds
>> a second statement to one of the clauses but doesn't add the braces.
>> (The only time I consider it reasonable to leave out th
On 1/1/2012 11:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> I think it's a recipe for future maintenance hassles when someone adds
> a second statement to one of the clauses but doesn't add the braces.
> (The only time I consider it reasonable to leave out the braces is for
> one liner if statements, where there's
Nick Coghlan writes:
> He keeps leaving [braces] out [when the block is a single statement],
> I occasionally tell him they should always be included (most recently
> this came up when we gave conflicting advice to a patch contributor).
As someone who has maintained his fair share of C code, I a
I've been having an occasional argument with Benjamin regarding braces
in 4-line if statements:
if (cond)
statement;
else
statement;
vs.
if (cond) {
statement;
} else {
statement;
}
He keeps leaving them out, I occasionally tell him they should always
be included (most
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