Re: [Python-Dev] Backward-incompatible change to random.randrange in 2.7.6

2013-12-18 Thread Serhiy Storchaka
18.12.13 04:40, Benjamin Peterson написав(ла): Mostly yes, but at least you could tell people to upgrade straight to 2.7.7 and skip 2.7.6. It'll make the people to postpone the upgrade to 2.7.6 (which fixes many security bugs) until 2.7.7 release, instead of correcting their morally-broken

Re: [Python-Dev] Backward-incompatible change to random.randrange in 2.7.6

2013-12-18 Thread Chris Angelico
On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 8:43 PM, Serhiy Storchaka storch...@gmail.com wrote: 18.12.13 04:40, Benjamin Peterson написав(ла): Mostly yes, but at least you could tell people to upgrade straight to 2.7.7 and skip 2.7.6. It'll make the people to postpone the upgrade to 2.7.6 (which fixes many

Re: [Python-Dev] Backward-incompatible change to random.randrange in 2.7.6

2013-12-18 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 18 December 2013 20:17, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 8:43 PM, Serhiy Storchaka storch...@gmail.com wrote: 18.12.13 04:40, Benjamin Peterson написав(ла): Mostly yes, but at least you could tell people to upgrade straight to 2.7.7 and skip 2.7.6. It'll

Re: [Python-Dev] Backward-incompatible change to random.randrange in 2.7.6

2013-12-18 Thread Guido van Rossum
BTW, I bet a lavish dinner at PyCon that it is *only* Zope/ZODB that does this. In the time we added this bogus dependency on undocumented parameters, the PythonLabs team was at Zope and we didn't always get our boundaries straight. On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 2:51 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Backward-incompatible change to random.randrange in 2.7.6

2013-12-18 Thread Daniel Holth
But who could forget njzrs' wasp UAV software line 107, using int=float? https://github.com/nzjrs/wasp/blob/master/sw/groundstation/wasp/__init__.py#L107 On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: BTW, I bet a lavish dinner at PyCon that it is *only* Zope/ZODB

Re: [Python-Dev] Backward-incompatible change to random.randrange in 2.7.6

2013-12-18 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 11:31:47 -0500 Daniel Holth dho...@gmail.com wrote: But who could forget njzrs' wasp UAV software line 107, using int=float? https://github.com/nzjrs/wasp/blob/master/sw/groundstation/wasp/__init__.py#L107 And the purpose is quite Pythonesque: Generates a noisy

Re: [Python-Dev] Backward-incompatible change to random.randrange in 2.7.6

2013-12-18 Thread Tim Peters
[Daniel Holth] But who could forget njzrs' wasp UAV software line 107, using int=float? https://github.com/nzjrs/wasp/blob/master/sw/groundstation/wasp/__init__.py#L107 I could forget it ;-) The remarkable thing about the two instances of: random.randrange(0.0,1.0, int=float) in that

Re: [Python-Dev] Backward-incompatible change to random.randrange in 2.7.6

2013-12-18 Thread Daniel Holth
On Dec 18, 2013 11:54 AM, Tim Peters tim.pet...@gmail.com wrote: [Daniel Holth] But who could forget njzrs' wasp UAV software line 107, using int=float? https://github.com/nzjrs/wasp/blob/master/sw/groundstation/wasp/__init__.py#L107 I could forget it ;-) The remarkable thing about the

Re: [Python-Dev] Backward-incompatible change to random.randrange in 2.7.6

2013-12-18 Thread Ethan Furman
On 12/18/2013 08:54 AM, Tim Peters wrote: Which reminds me. I used to think there was no such thing as a stupid question. Then I discovered Stack Overflow ;-) +1 QOTW ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] Backward-incompatible change to random.randrange in 2.7.6

2013-12-17 Thread Tres Seaver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 12/17/2013 01:40 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: This really seems a case of ZODB depending on internals where it really, really should have known better. Calling this a de-facto public interface seems way too far a stretch of the intention. And

Re: [Python-Dev] Backward-incompatible change to random.randrange in 2.7.6

2013-12-17 Thread Barry Warsaw
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On Dec 17, 2013, at 01:18 PM, Tres Seaver wrote: http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/b1e94e332ec8 Do we really want to change an undocumented-but-effectively-public API in a late-in-the-release-cycle third dot release? It caused, ZODB's tests to

Re: [Python-Dev] Backward-incompatible change to random.randrange in 2.7.6

2013-12-17 Thread Guido van Rossum
This really seems a case of ZODB depending on internals where it really, really should have known better. Calling this a de-facto public interface seems way too far a stretch of the intention. And please don't fix it by version-testing and using a different argument name... On Tue, Dec 17, 2013

Re: [Python-Dev] Backward-incompatible change to random.randrange in 2.7.6

2013-12-17 Thread Tim Peters
[Barry] ... I don't think the API *has* to change in a backward incompatible way either. The methods could be given **kws with a bit of hackery to figure out whether the old API was being used (keys: int, default, maxwidth) or the new API was being used (keys: _int and _maxwidth). Yeah it's

Re: [Python-Dev] Backward-incompatible change to random.randrange in 2.7.6

2013-12-17 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 13:18:25 -0500 Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/b1e94e332ec8 Do we really want to change an undocumented-but-effectively-public API in a late-in-the-release-cycle third dot

Re: [Python-Dev] Backward-incompatible change to random.randrange in 2.7.6

2013-12-17 Thread Benjamin Peterson
2013/12/17 Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net: On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 13:18:25 -0500 Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/b1e94e332ec8 Do we really want to change an undocumented-but-effectively-public API in

Re: [Python-Dev] Backward-incompatible change to random.randrange in 2.7.6

2013-12-17 Thread Donald Stufft
Isn't changing it in 2.7.6 which is already released and then reverting in 2.7.7 worse? Either way 2.7.6 will have this change and be in the wild and broken for people who depend on it On Dec 17, 2013, at 5:54 PM, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: 2013/12/17 Antoine Pitrou

Re: [Python-Dev] Backward-incompatible change to random.randrange in 2.7.6

2013-12-17 Thread Benjamin Peterson
Mostly yes, but at least you could tell people to upgrade straight to 2.7.7 and skip 2.7.6. 2013/12/17 Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io: Isn't changing it in 2.7.6 which is already released and then reverting in 2.7.7 worse? Either way 2.7.6 will have this change and be in the wild and broken