Re: [Python-Dev] Long term development external named branches and periodic merges from python

2011-11-30 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Could be implemented as a command line command using revsets?. Propose a new revset to mercurial devels? It *is* implemented as a command line command using revsets. The revset is max(ancestors(branch(%s)))-outgoing(%s)) where the first parameter is the branch that contains your changes, and

[Python-Dev] STM and python

2011-11-30 Thread Matt Joiner
Given GCC's announcement that Intel's STM will be an extension for C and C++ in GCC 4.7, what does this mean for Python, and the GIL? I've seen efforts made to make STM available as a context, and for use in user code. I've also read about the old attempts way back that attempted to use finer

Re: [Python-Dev] STM and python

2011-11-30 Thread Benjamin Peterson
2011/11/30 Matt Joiner anacro...@gmail.com: Given GCC's announcement that Intel's STM will be an extension for C and C++ in GCC 4.7, what does this mean for Python, and the GIL? I've seen efforts made to make STM available as a context, and for use in user code. I've also read about the old

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 402: Simplified Package Layout and Partitioning

2011-11-30 Thread PJ Eby
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Éric Araujo mer...@netwok.org wrote: Le 11/08/2011 20:30, P.J. Eby a écrit : At 04:39 PM 8/11/2011 +0200, Éric Araujo wrote: I’ll just regret that it's not possible to provide a module docstring to inform that this is a namespace package used for X and

Re: [Python-Dev] STM and python

2011-11-30 Thread Charles-François Natali
However given advances in locking and garbage collection in the last decade, what attempts have been made recently to try these new ideas out? In particular, how unlikely is it that all the thread safe primitives, global contexts, and reference counting functions be made __transaction_atomic,

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 402: Simplified Package Layout and Partitioning

2011-11-30 Thread Éric Araujo
Hi, Thanks for the replies. At this point, though, before doing any more work on the PEP I'd like to have some idea of whether there's any chance of it being accepted. At this point, there seems to be a lot of passive, Usenet nod syndrome type support for it, but little active support. If

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 402: Simplified Package Layout and Partitioning

2011-11-30 Thread Martin v. Löwis
If this helps, I am +1, and I’m sure other devs will chime in. I think the feature is useful, and I prefer 402’s way to 382’s pyp directories. If that's the obstacle to adopting PEP 382, it would be easy to revert the PEP back to having file markers to indicate package-ness. I insist on having

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 402: Simplified Package Layout and Partitioning

2011-11-30 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 1:28 AM, PJ Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote: It doesn't help at all that I'm not really in a position to provide an implementation, and the persons most likely to implement have been leaning somewhat towards 382, or wanting to modify 402 such that it uses .pyp directory

Re: [Python-Dev] STM and python

2011-11-30 Thread Matt Joiner
I did see this, I'm not convinced it's only relevant to PyPy. On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 2:25 AM, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: 2011/11/30 Matt Joiner anacro...@gmail.com: Given GCC's announcement that Intel's STM will be an extension for C and C++ in GCC 4.7, what does this mean

Re: [Python-Dev] STM and python

2011-11-30 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Thu, 1 Dec 2011 01:31:14 +1100 Matt Joiner anacro...@gmail.com wrote: However given advances in locking and garbage collection in the last decade, what attempts have been made recently to try these new ideas out? In particular, how unlikely is it that all the thread safe primitives,

Re: [Python-Dev] STM and python

2011-11-30 Thread Gregory P. Smith
Azul has been using hardware transactional memory on their custom CPUs (and likely STM in their current x86 virtual machine based products) to great effect for their massively parallel Java VM (700+ cpu cores and gobs of ram) for over 4 years. I'll leave it to the reader to do the relevant

Re: [Python-Dev] STM and python

2011-11-30 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Gregory P. Smith g...@krypto.org wrote: Azul has been using hardware transactional memory on their custom CPUs (and likely STM in their current x86 virtual machine based products) to great effect for their massively parallel Java VM (700+ cpu cores and gobs of

Re: [Python-Dev] STM and python

2011-11-30 Thread Matt Joiner
I saw this, I believe it just exposes an STM primitive to user code. It doesn't make use of STM for Python internals. Explicit STM doesn't seem particularly useful for a language that doesn't expose raw memory in its normal usage. On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com

[Python-Dev] Warnings

2011-11-30 Thread Raymond Hettinger
When updating the documentation, please don't go overboard with warnings. The docs need to be worded affirmatively -- say what a tool does and show how to use it correctly. See http://docs.python.org/documenting/style.html#affirmative-tone The docs for the subprocess module currently have SEVEN

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 402: Simplified Package Layout and Partitioning

2011-11-30 Thread Glyph
On Nov 30, 2011, at 6:39 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 1:28 AM, PJ Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote: It doesn't help at all that I'm not really in a position to provide an implementation, and the persons most likely to implement have been leaning somewhat towards 382, or

Re: [Python-Dev] Warnings

2011-11-30 Thread Glyph
On Dec 1, 2011, at 1:10 AM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: When updating the documentation, please don't go overboard with warnings. The docs need to be worded affirmatively -- say what a tool does and show how to use it correctly. See

Re: [Python-Dev] Warnings

2011-11-30 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote: When updating the documentation, please don't go overboard with warnings. The docs need to be worded affirmatively -- say what a tool does and show how to use it correctly. See 

Re: [Python-Dev] Warnings

2011-11-30 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 5:15 PM, Glyph gl...@twistedmatrix.com wrote: I think both of these documents point to a need for a recommended idiom for discussing security, or at least common antipatterns, within the Python documentation.  I like the IETF's security considerations section, because it

Re: [Python-Dev] Warnings

2011-11-30 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 5:15 PM, Glyph gl...@twistedmatrix.com wrote: I think both of these documents point to a need for a recommended idiom for discussing security, or at least common antipatterns, within the Python