Re: [Python-Dev] Assign(expr* targets, expr value) - why targetS?

2013-11-12 Thread Benjamin Peterson
2013/11/12 anatoly techtonik : > On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 8:34 AM, Benjamin Peterson > wrote: >> 2013/11/10 anatoly techtonik : >>> http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/1ee45eb6aab9/Parser/Python.asdl >>> >>> In Assign(expr* targets, expr value), why the first argument is a list? >> >> x = y = 42 > >

[Python-Dev] The pysandbox project is broken

2013-11-12 Thread Victor Stinner
Hi, After having work during 3 years on a pysandbox project to sandbox untrusted code, I now reached a point where I am convinced that pysandbox is broken by design. Different developers tried to convinced me before that pysandbox design is unsafe, but I had to experience it myself to be convinece

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython: Provide a more readable representation of socket on repr().

2013-11-12 Thread Victor Stinner
Hi Giampaolo, You forgot to update tests after your change in repr(socket). Tests are failing on buildbots, just one example: == FAIL: test_repr (test.test_socket.GeneralModuleTests) --

Re: [Python-Dev] The pysandbox project is broken

2013-11-12 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 13 Nov 2013 07:18, "Victor Stinner" wrote: > > Please tell me if you know sandbox projects for Python so I can > redirect users of pysandbox to a safer solution. I already know PyPy > sandbox. Sandboxing is hard enough (see also the many JVM vulnerabilities) that the only ones I even remotely

Re: [Python-Dev] The pysandbox project is broken

2013-11-12 Thread Terry Reedy
On 11/12/2013 4:16 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: It would also be nice to help developers looking for a sandbox for their application. Please tell me if you know sandbox projects for Python so I can redirect users of pysandbox to a safer solution. I already know PyPy sandbox. There are several web

Re: [Python-Dev] The pysandbox project is broken

2013-11-12 Thread Josiah Carlson
Python-dev is for the development of the Python core language, the CPython runtime, and libraries. Your sandbox, despite using and requiring deep knowledge of the runtime, is not developing those things. If you had a series of requests for the language or runtime that would make your job easier, th

Re: [Python-Dev] The pysandbox project is broken

2013-11-12 Thread Victor Stinner
2013/11/13 Josiah Carlson : > Python-dev is for the development of the Python core language, the CPython > runtime, and libraries. Your sandbox, despite using and requiring deep > knowledge of the runtime, is not developing those things. If you had a > series of requests for the language or runtime

Re: [Python-Dev] The pysandbox project is broken

2013-11-12 Thread Victor Stinner
2013/11/13 Terry Reedy : > There are several websites running submitted Python code (and in some cases, > many other languages). > ProjectEuler > CodeAcademy (I think they use someone else's code box) > CheckIO.org - python only > other coding challenge sites > I suspect they use sandboxed processe

Re: [Python-Dev] The pysandbox project is broken

2013-11-12 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: > 2013/11/13 Terry Reedy : > > There are several websites running submitted Python code (and in some > cases, > > many other languages). > > ProjectEuler > > CodeAcademy (I think they use someone else's code box) > > CheckIO.org - python only

Re: [Python-Dev] The pysandbox project is broken

2013-11-12 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 12:58:42AM +0100, Victor Stinner wrote: > I now gave up on sandboxing Python. I just would like to warn other > core developers that trying to put a sandbox in Python is not a good > idea :-) Do you mean CPython? Do you think it would be productive to create an independen

Re: [Python-Dev] The pysandbox project is broken

2013-11-12 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 11/12/2013 4:11 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 12:58:42AM +0100, Victor Stinner wrote: >I now gave up on sandboxing Python. I just would like to warn other >core developers that trying to put a sandbox in Python is not a good >idea:-) Do you mean CPython? Do you think i

Re: [Python-Dev] The pysandbox project is broken

2013-11-12 Thread Christian Heimes
Am 13.11.2013 01:47, schrieb Glenn Linderman: > If it is an implementation issue, then perhaps a different > implementation would help. Or perhaps a "safe compiler". > > If it is a language design issue, then a different implementation > wouldn't help, it would require a new language, or a restric

Re: [Python-Dev] The pysandbox project is broken

2013-11-12 Thread Ned Batchelder
On 11/12/13 6:48 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: On 11/12/2013 4:16 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: It would also be nice to help developers looking for a sandbox for their application. Please tell me if you know sandbox projects for Python so I can redirect users of pysandbox to a safer solution. I already k

Re: [Python-Dev] The pysandbox project is broken

2013-11-12 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 13 Nov 2013 13:44, "Ned Batchelder" wrote: > > On 11/12/13 6:48 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: >> >> On 11/12/2013 4:16 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: >> >>> It would also be nice to help developers looking for a sandbox for >>> their application. Please tell me if you know sandbox projects for >>> Python s

Re: [Python-Dev] The pysandbox project is broken

2013-11-12 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 13 Nov 2013 12:11, "Christian Heimes" wrote: > > Am 13.11.2013 01:47, schrieb Glenn Linderman: > > If it is an implementation issue, then perhaps a different > > implementation would help. Or perhaps a "safe compiler". > > > > If it is a language design issue, then a different implementation >

Re: [Python-Dev] The pysandbox project is broken

2013-11-12 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 13 Nov 2013 09:56, "Josiah Carlson" wrote: > > Python-dev is for the development of the Python core language, the CPython runtime, and libraries. Your sandbox, despite using and requiring deep knowledge of the runtime, is not developing those things. If you had a series of requests for the lang

Re: [Python-Dev] The pysandbox project is broken

2013-11-12 Thread Georg Brandl
Am 13.11.2013 00:49, schrieb Josiah Carlson: > Python-dev is for the development of the Python core language, the CPython > runtime, and libraries. Your sandbox, despite using and requiring deep > knowledge > of the runtime, is not developing those things. If you had a series of > requests > for

Re: [Python-Dev] The pysandbox project is broken

2013-11-12 Thread Maciej Fijalkowski
On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 2:11 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 12:58:42AM +0100, Victor Stinner wrote: > >> I now gave up on sandboxing Python. I just would like to warn other >> core developers that trying to put a sandbox in Python is not a good >> idea :-) > > Do you mean CPy