Re: [Python-Dev] Can Python Be Built Without Distutils

2015-01-24 Thread Brett Cannon
On Fri Jan 23 2015 at 5:45:28 PM Gregory P. Smith g...@krypto.org wrote: On Fri Jan 23 2015 at 11:20:02 AM M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On 23.01.2015 19:48, Matthias Klose wrote: On 01/23/2015 06:30 PM, Cyd Haselton wrote: Related to my earlier question regarding building Python on

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 468 (Ordered kwargs)

2015-01-24 Thread Eric Snow
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 3:50 AM, Maciej Fijalkowski fij...@gmail.com wrote: I would like to point out that we implemented rhettingers idea in PyPy that makes all the dicts ordered by default and we don't have any adverse performance effects (in fact, there is quite significant memory saving

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 468 (Ordered kwargs)

2015-01-24 Thread Maciej Fijalkowski
Hi Guido. I *think* part of the reason why our implementation works is that machines are significantly different than at the times of Knuth. Avoiding cache misses is a very effective way to improve performance these days. Cheers, fijal On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 7:39 PM, Guido van Rossum

Re: [Python-Dev] Can Python Be Built Without Distutils

2015-01-24 Thread Cyd Haselton
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Zachary Ware zachary.w...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, January 24, 2015, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: On Fri Jan 23 2015 at 5:45:28 PM Gregory P. Smith g...@krypto.org wrote: On Fri Jan 23 2015 at 11:20:02 AM M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: On

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 468 (Ordered kwargs)

2015-01-24 Thread Guido van Rossum
Wow, very cool. When I implemented the very first Python dict (cribbing from an algorithm in Knuth) I had no idea that 25 years later there would still be ways to improve upon it! I've got a feeling Knuth probably didn't expect this either... On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 2:51 AM, Maciej Fijalkowski

Re: [Python-Dev] Can Python Be Built Without Distutils

2015-01-24 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
On 24.01.2015 21:23, Zachary Ware wrote: On Saturday, January 24, 2015, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: On Fri Jan 23 2015 at 5:45:28 PM Gregory P. Smith g...@krypto.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','g...@krypto.org'); wrote: On Fri Jan 23 2015 at 11:20:02 AM M.-A. Lemburg

Re: [Python-Dev] Can Python Be Built Without Distutils

2015-01-24 Thread Zachary Ware
On Saturday, January 24, 2015, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: On Fri Jan 23 2015 at 5:45:28 PM Gregory P. Smith g...@krypto.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','g...@krypto.org'); wrote: On Fri Jan 23 2015 at 11:20:02 AM M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com

[Python-Dev] Any grammar experts?

2015-01-24 Thread Neil Girdhar
To finish PEP 448, I need to update the grammar for syntax such as {**x for x in it} and {1:2, 3:4, **a} It's been a long time since I've looked at grammars and I could really use the advice of an expert. I'm considering replacing: dictorsetmaker: ( (test ':' test (comp_for | (',' test ':'

Re: [Python-Dev] Can Python Be Built Without Distutils

2015-01-24 Thread Gregory P. Smith
Why doesn't our Makefile supply that flag with the make parallelism level in the sharedmods step? On Sat Jan 24 2015 at 2:25:45 PM Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 21:53:06 +0100 M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: BTW: Parallel execution, cross compilation

Re: [Python-Dev] Undefined dlopen When Building Module On Android

2015-01-24 Thread Cyd Haselton
Closer. make make install ran successfully; however running the newly installed binary results in the same error. On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 5:08 PM, Frank, Matthew I matthew.i.fr...@intel.com wrote: Android's dlopen() works slightly differently than the normal Unix dlopen() in at least two

Re: [Python-Dev] Any grammar experts?

2015-01-24 Thread Guido van Rossum
Have you tried it yet? I think you have to inline dictpopulator, because dictpopulator can start with the same tokens as test, and the parser doesn't backtrack. So it wouldn't know how to decide whether to take the dictpopulator branch or the set branch. If you inline it, the parser will know,

Re: [Python-Dev] Why are generated files in the repository?

2015-01-24 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 25 Jan 2015 01:09, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: On Sat, Jan 24, 2015, at 03:00, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 20 January 2015 at 10:53, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: On Mon, Jan 19, 2015, at 19:40, Neil Girdhar wrote: I was also wondering why files

Re: [Python-Dev] Undefined dlopen When Building Module On Android

2015-01-24 Thread Frank, Matthew I
Android's dlopen() works slightly differently than the normal Unix dlopen() in at least two different ways. I haven't seen your particular problem, but that's probably because I'm cross-building CPython (building everything I need on a Linux machine, and then copying the install directory to

Re: [Python-Dev] Any grammar experts?

2015-01-24 Thread Neil Girdhar
Thanks, I had tried it and got the ambiguities, but I wasn't sure if those would disappear with editing some peripheral file. Yes, you're right about the set branch. Thank you, Neil On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 10:29 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: Have you tried it yet? I think

Re: [Python-Dev] Why are generated files in the repository?

2015-01-24 Thread Neil Girdhar
But you can remove Python/graminit.c and make clean make works, right? On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 11:00 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On 25 Jan 2015 01:09, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: On Sat, Jan 24, 2015, at 03:00, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 20 January 2015

Re: [Python-Dev] Undefined dlopen When Building Module On Android

2015-01-24 Thread Cyd Haselton
Replies in body of message for clarity: On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 5:08 PM, Frank, Matthew I matthew.i.fr...@intel.com wrote: Android's dlopen() works slightly differently than the normal Unix dlopen() in at least two different ways. I haven't seen your particular problem, but that's probably

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 468 (Ordered kwargs)

2015-01-24 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Maciej Fijalkowski fij...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Guido. I *think* part of the reason why our implementation works is that machines are significantly different than at the times of Knuth. Avoiding cache misses is a very effective way to improve performance

Re: [Python-Dev] Overriding stdlib http package

2015-01-24 Thread Donald Stufft
On Jan 24, 2015, at 2:57 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On 15 January 2015 at 07:35, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote: On Jan 14, 2015, at 4:19 PM, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: But as Guido pointed out, we _like_ it being difficult to do because we don't want

Re: [Python-Dev] Overriding stdlib http package

2015-01-24 Thread Donald Stufft
On Jan 24, 2015, at 10:17 AM, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote: Or you have things like pdb++ which needs to replace the pdb import because a lot of tools only have a flag like —pdb and do not provide a way to switch it to a different import. The sys.path ordering means that pdb++ has

Re: [Python-Dev] Why are generated files in the repository?

2015-01-24 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 20 January 2015 at 10:53, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: On Mon, Jan 19, 2015, at 19:40, Neil Girdhar wrote: I was also wondering why files like Python/graminit.c are in the respository? They generate spurious merge conflicts. Convenience mostly. It also gets us a round a

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 468 (Ordered kwargs)

2015-01-24 Thread Maciej Fijalkowski
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 12:50 PM, Maciej Fijalkowski fij...@gmail.com wrote: Hi I would like to point out that we implemented rhettingers idea in PyPy that makes all the dicts ordered by default and we don't have any adverse performance effects (in fact, there is quite significant memory

[Python-Dev] PEP 468 (Ordered kwargs)

2015-01-24 Thread Maciej Fijalkowski
Hi I would like to point out that we implemented rhettingers idea in PyPy that makes all the dicts ordered by default and we don't have any adverse performance effects (in fact, there is quite significant memory saving coming from it). The measurments on CPython could be different, but in

Re: [Python-Dev] Can Python Be Built Without Distutils

2015-01-24 Thread Cyd Haselton
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 12:48 PM, Matthias Klose d...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 01/23/2015 06:30 PM, Cyd Haselton wrote: Related to my earlier question regarding building Python on Android and an undefined reference to dlopen error...I have the following question: Is it possible to build and

Re: [Python-Dev] Can Python Be Built Without Distutils

2015-01-24 Thread Cyd Haselton
On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 12:48 PM, Matthias Klose d...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 01/23/2015 06:30 PM, Cyd Haselton wrote: Related to my earlier question regarding building Python on Android and an undefined reference to dlopen error...I have the following question: Is it possible to build and

Re: [Python-Dev] Why are generated files in the repository?

2015-01-24 Thread Benjamin Peterson
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015, at 03:00, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 20 January 2015 at 10:53, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: On Mon, Jan 19, 2015, at 19:40, Neil Girdhar wrote: I was also wondering why files like Python/graminit.c are in the respository? They generate spurious

Re: [Python-Dev] Can Python Be Built Without Distutils

2015-01-24 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 21:53:06 +0100 M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: BTW: Parallel execution, cross compilation can be added to setup.py. I don't think parallel execution is all that important, $ ./python setup.py build_ext --help [...] --parallel (-j) number of parallel build jobs