[Python-Dev] Small RFEs and the Bug Tracker

2008-02-18 Thread Facundo Batista
Hi! Don't now if always, or in the last few months where I've been following the issues more closely, but I found that are appearing a lot of small RFEs in the tracker. These normally are small but not trivial things. In most cases when I read them I think Mmm, yes... it won't hurt to have it,

[Python-Dev] Different float formatting on Windows and Linux

2008-02-18 Thread Eric Smith
The tests for float.__format__ are breaking on Windows, because of this issue: http://bugs.python.org/issue1600. Basically, Windows is using 3 digits for exponents 100, and Linux (and at least MacOS) are using 2. The patch attached to the issue proposes changing all platforms to use at least

Re: [Python-Dev] Py_CLEAR to avoid crashes

2008-02-18 Thread Nick Coghlan
Greg Ewing wrote: Martin v. Löwis wrote: when some caller of PyEval_EvalFrameEx still carries a pointer to some object that got deleted, and then still some code can get hold of the then-deleted object. I seem to have missed the beginning of this discussion. I don't see what the problem is

Re: [Python-Dev] Small RFEs and the Bug Tracker

2008-02-18 Thread Virgil Dupras
On 2/18/08, Facundo Batista [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! Don't now if always, or in the last few months where I've been following the issues more closely, but I found that are appearing a lot of small RFEs in the tracker. These normally are small but not trivial things. In most cases when I

Re: [Python-Dev] Py_CLEAR to avoid crashes

2008-02-18 Thread Neil Schemenauer
Nick Coghlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem is calls to Py_DECREF(self-attr) where some of the code invoked by __del__ manages to find a way back around to reference self-attr and gets access to a half-deleted object. Don't you mean __del__ manages to find a way back around to self? If

Re: [Python-Dev] Py_CLEAR to avoid crashes

2008-02-18 Thread Amaury Forgeot d'Arc
Hello, Neil Schemenauer wrote: Nick Coghlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem is calls to Py_DECREF(self-attr) where some of the code invoked by __del__ manages to find a way back around to reference self-attr and gets access to a half-deleted object. Don't you mean __del__ manages to

Re: [Python-Dev] Small RFEs and the Bug Tracker

2008-02-18 Thread Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven
-On [20080218 13:38], Virgil Dupras ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Personally, I think that a bug tracker is a good place to keep RFE, not a PEP. I think that the PEP would tend to be cluttered with RFE nobody cares about forever. So the clutter can never be cleaned unless someone takes

Re: [Python-Dev] Small RFEs and the Bug Tracker

2008-02-18 Thread Amaury Forgeot d'Arc
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven wrote: -On [20080218 13:38], Virgil Dupras ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Personally, I think that a bug tracker is a good place to keep RFE, not a PEP. I think that the PEP would tend to be cluttered with RFE nobody cares about forever. So the clutter can never

Re: [Python-Dev] Py_CLEAR to avoid crashes

2008-02-18 Thread Jeffrey Yasskin
On Feb 17, 2008 12:29 PM, Martin v. Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeffrey Yasskin wrote: On Feb 16, 2008 3:12 PM, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Should we however intensively search and correct all of them? Is there a clever way to prevent these problems globally, for

Re: [Python-Dev] Small RFEs and the Bug Tracker

2008-02-18 Thread Brett Cannon
On Feb 18, 2008 11:11 AM, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven wrote: -On [20080218 13:38], Virgil Dupras ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Personally, I think that a bug tracker is a good place to keep RFE, not a PEP. I think that the PEP would tend

Re: [Python-Dev] Small RFEs and the Bug Tracker

2008-02-18 Thread Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven
-On [20080218 21:41], Brett Cannon ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: My issue with keeping the RFEs in the tracker as they are is that it artificially inflates the open issue count. Python does not have over 1,700 open bugs. An issue does not necessarily mean the same as bug. :) Is it a bug tracker you

Re: [Python-Dev] Small RFEs and the Bug Tracker

2008-02-18 Thread Virgil Dupras
On 2/18/08, Brett Cannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Feb 18, 2008 11:11 AM, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven wrote: -On [20080218 13:38], Virgil Dupras ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Personally, I think that a bug tracker is a good place to keep RFE

Re: [Python-Dev] Small RFEs and the Bug Tracker

2008-02-18 Thread Steve Holden
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven wrote: -On [20080218 21:41], Brett Cannon ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: My issue with keeping the RFEs in the tracker as they are is that it artificially inflates the open issue count. Python does not have over 1,700 open bugs. An issue does not necessarily mean

Re: [Python-Dev] Small RFEs and the Bug Tracker

2008-02-18 Thread Gregory P. Smith
PEP: -1 tracker: +1 I agree. Then we can set some status/keyword when the subject of a RFE is accepted by core developers, saying if someone proposes a patch, it has a chance to be reviewed and applied. It may incite occasional contributors to work on some of these tasks,

Re: [Python-Dev] Small RFEs and the Bug Tracker

2008-02-18 Thread Steve Holden
Virgil Dupras wrote: On 2/18/08, Brett Cannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] So I have no issue with keeping the RFEs in the tracker, at some point I do want to change how they are represnted so that they are a separate things from issues representing bugs and patches. -Brett Which is why

Re: [Python-Dev] trunk-math

2008-02-18 Thread Neal Becker
There is a post on boost (http://boost.org) about floating point utilities that are being considered for review. This seems to have a lot of overlap with python needs. I haven't reviewed this myself, but boost code is meant to be quite portable. Here is the link: http://tinyurl.com/2gg4z3

Re: [Python-Dev] Small RFEs and the Bug Tracker

2008-02-18 Thread Georg Brandl
Steve Holden schrieb: Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven wrote: -On [20080218 21:41], Brett Cannon ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: My issue with keeping the RFEs in the tracker as they are is that it artificially inflates the open issue count. Python does not have over 1,700 open bugs. An issue does

Re: [Python-Dev] Small RFEs and the Bug Tracker

2008-02-18 Thread Steve Holden
Virgil Dupras wrote: On 2/18/08, Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure we should be throwing RFE's away with such casual abandon just because nobody had time to pay them any attention in six months - nor bugs neither, come to that. Well, we have to evaluate the chances of our

Re: [Python-Dev] Small RFEs and the Bug Tracker

2008-02-18 Thread Virgil Dupras
On 2/18/08, Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure we should be throwing RFE's away with such casual abandon just because nobody had time to pay them any attention in six months - nor bugs neither, come to that. Well, we have to evaluate the chances of our older tickets to come to

Re: [Python-Dev] Py_CLEAR to avoid crashes

2008-02-18 Thread Neil Schemenauer
On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 05:48:57PM +0100, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc wrote: For example, in exception.c, BaseException_init() starts with the instruction: Py_DECREF(self-args); this may call __del__ on self-args Ah, I understand now. We are not talking about tp_dealloc methods (the GC takes

Re: [Python-Dev] Use Python 3.0 syntax for except and raise?

2008-02-18 Thread Guido van Rossum
I don't know if you're done with this already, but there's a lot of experience suggesting such sweeps are quite dangerous. In the past, whenever a sweep across the entire stdlib was done, it's always caused a few breakages, some of which didn't get caught until the next release. Things to worry

Re: [Python-Dev] Small RFEs and the Bug Tracker

2008-02-18 Thread Martin v. Löwis
This is still valid? Should we start moving RFEs to this PEP and closing their issues in the tracker? As other have indicated - PEP 42 was a mistake (IMO). Or should we try to get more discussion regarding these RFEs? Maybe, for example, a weekly digest where the latests RFEs added are sent

[Python-Dev] Py_CLEAR to avoid crashes

2008-02-18 Thread Jim Jewett
A simple way to do this would be to push objects whose refcounts had reached 0 onto a list instead of finalizing them immediately, and have PyEval_EvalFrameEx periodically swap in a new to-delete list and delete the objects on the old one. Some of the memory management threads discussed

Re: [Python-Dev] Py_CLEAR to avoid crashes

2008-02-18 Thread Martin v. Löwis
That sucks. Most Py_DECREF calls are probably okay but it's going to be hard to find the ones that are not. Methinks that egrep 'DECREF\([a-zA-Z0-9_]-[a-zA-Z0-9_]+\)' */*.c gives a good overview - you should never DECREF a variable on heap. In the trunk, this command finds 36 candidates.

Re: [Python-Dev] Small RFEs and the Bug Tracker

2008-02-18 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Well, we have to evaluate the chances of our older tickets to come to completion. I'm of the opinion that ticket getting older have very small chances of ever being completed. RFE for python 2.4 are likely to be irrelevant. Do you have any facts to base this theory on? Two years for a bug

Re: [Python-Dev] Py_CLEAR to avoid crashes

2008-02-18 Thread Neil Schemenauer
I wrote: Most Py_DECREF calls are probably okay but it's going to be hard to find the ones that are not. I suppose Py_DECREF is not the only source of trouble. Many calls to the Python API can end up calling arbitrary user code (via __getattr__, __getitem__, etc.). Whenever an object does

Re: [Python-Dev] Different float formatting on Windows and Linux

2008-02-18 Thread Ralf W. Grosse-Kunstleve
The tests for float.__format__ are breaking on Windows, because of this issue: http://bugs.python.org/issue1600. Basically, Windows is using 3 digits for exponents 100, and Linux (and at least MacOS) are using 2. Yes, this is very annoying and I once lost of lot of time because of the

Re: [Python-Dev] Small RFEs and the Bug Tracker

2008-02-18 Thread Virgil Dupras
On 2/19/08, Martin v. Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, we have to evaluate the chances of our older tickets to come to completion. I'm of the opinion that ticket getting older have very small chances of ever being completed. RFE for python 2.4 are likely to be irrelevant. Do you have