Re: [Python-Dev] Choosing a best practice solution for Python/extension modules

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009, Brett Cannon wrote: > On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 15:46, Aahz wrote: >> On Sat, Feb 21, 2009, Brett Cannon wrote: >>> >>> I am seeing two approaches emerging. One is where pickle contains all >>> Python code and then uses something like use_extension to make sure >>> the original

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

> This has been true for a number of cases over the years: whether the > "repostiory format", or the wire protocol, sometimes changes which > materially *improve* the user's experience may require upgrading the > client on the user's machine. In the case of SVN, upgrading to 1.5 gets > vastly be

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 9:15 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > "Martin v. Löwis" writes: > > sjt sez: > > > > I didn't say "from source", I said "from a VCS checkout". If using a > > > *specific* recent official release of a core tool is bureaucratically > > > infeasible, it would IMO be very

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

Steven Bethard wrote: > On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 1:11 PM, Paul Moore wrote: >> PS Just for my own information, am I correct in thinking that it is >> *only* Bazaar in the (D)VCS world that has this problem, to any real >> extent? I know old Mercurial clients can interact with newer servers >> (ie,

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Moore wrote: > 2009/2/21 Barry Warsaw : >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> On Feb 21, 2009, at 4:11 PM, Paul Moore wrote: >> >>> PS Just for my own information, am I correct in thinking that it is >>> *only* Bazaar in the (D

Re: [Python-Dev] code.interact() locals + globals?

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 16:59, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 15:20, Rocky Bernstein wrote: > >> I notice code.interact() in Python 2.6 has a parameter for locals but not >> globals. Should it? >> > > What is code.interact()?:: > > >>> (lambda: None).__code__.interact >

Re: [Python-Dev] code.interact() locals + globals?

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 15:20, Rocky Bernstein wrote: > I notice code.interact() in Python 2.6 has a parameter for locals but not > globals. Should it? > What is code.interact()?:: >>> (lambda: None).__code__.interact Traceback (most recent call last): File "", line 1, in At

Re: [Python-Dev] Choosing a best practice solution for Python/extension modules

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 15:46, Aahz wrote: > On Sat, Feb 21, 2009, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > I am seeing two approaches emerging. One is where pickle contains all > > Python code and then uses something like use_extension to make sure > > the original Python objects are still reachable at some

Re: [Python-Dev] Choosing a best practice solution for Python/extension modules

So go ahead and tear this apart so that we can hopefully reach a consensus that makes sense so that at least testing can easily be done. If I was developing an application and wanted to deal with two different versions of the same library, I would simply make sure that the version I

Re: [Python-Dev] Choosing a best practice solution for Python/extension modules

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009, Brett Cannon wrote: > > I am seeing two approaches emerging. One is where pickle contains all > Python code and then uses something like use_extension to make sure > the original Python objects are still reachable at some point. This > has the drawback that you have to use som

[Python-Dev] code.interact() locals + globals?

I notice code.interact() in Python 2.6 has a parameter for locals but not globals. Should it? Ultimately, *exec* is used underneath so I don't see a technical reason why it couldn't add a global parameter. Also, although one could pass in a dictionary that is the merger or update() of locals() a

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

2009/2/21 Barry Warsaw : > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Feb 21, 2009, at 4:11 PM, Paul Moore wrote: > >> PS Just for my own information, am I correct in thinking that it is >> *only* Bazaar in the (D)VCS world that has this problem, to any real >> extent? I know old Mercur

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 21, 2009, at 4:11 PM, Paul Moore wrote: PS Just for my own information, am I correct in thinking that it is *only* Bazaar in the (D)VCS world that has this problem, to any real extent? I know old Mercurial clients can interact with newer serv

Re: [Python-Dev] Choosing a best practice solution for Python/extension modules

Brett Cannon wrote: > > > On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 11:43, > wrote: > > On 07:07 pm, br...@python.org wrote: > > On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 09:17, Jean-Paul Calderone > mailto:exar...@divmod.com>>wrote: > > > B

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 1:11 PM, Paul Moore wrote: > PS Just for my own information, am I correct in thinking that it is > *only* Bazaar in the (D)VCS world that has this problem, to any real > extent? I know old Mercurial clients can interact with newer servers > (ie, the wire protocol hasn't cha

Re: [Python-Dev] Choosing a best practice solution for Python/extension modules

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 11:32, Jean-Paul Calderone wrote: > On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 11:07:07 -0800, Brett Cannon wrote: > >> On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 09:17, Jean-Paul Calderone > >wrote: >> >> On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 13:45:26 -0800, Brett Cannon >>> wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:53, Aahz w

Re: [Python-Dev] Choosing a best practice solution for Python/extension modules

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 11:43, wrote: > On 07:07 pm, br...@python.org wrote: > >> On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 09:17, Jean-Paul Calderone > >wrote: >> > > But there is another issue with this: the pure Python code will never call the extension code because the globals will be bound to _pypickle

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

2009/2/21 "Martin v. Löwis" : >> Wouldn't such hypothetical core Python developers be able to build and >> run their own local copy of bzr, using that self-compiled Python? > > It has been hypothetical for a while, but it never was about core > developers. Given that it *is* all hypothetical by no

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 21, 2009, at 3:35 PM, Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven wrote: -On [20090221 21:30], Barry Warsaw (ba...@python.org) wrote: I think no matter what DVCS gets chosen Isn't that getting ahead of the game? I thought that the choice wheth

Re: [Python-Dev] A suggestion: Do proto-PEPs in Google Docs

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 20, 2009, at 10:56 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: (1) and (2) are obvious, I think, and I don't know how much (3) really matters when the editors are a small group. But I was surprised by how much (4), and (5) contributed to my experience wo

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

-On [20090221 21:30], Barry Warsaw (ba...@python.org) wrote: >I think no matter what DVCS gets chosen Isn't that getting ahead of the game? I thought that the choice whether or not a DVCS gets chosen is part of that PEP? -- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven / asmodai イェルーン ラウフロック ヴァン デ

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 21, 2009, at 4:57 AM, Martin v. Löwis wrote: There is no problem with people building their own versions of Python, though - they do so in their home directories, and OS security mechanisms prevent them from doing harm to other users. As sh

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 21, 2009, at 7:15 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Besides, if Barry makes this experiment *now* and enough people speak up that it will make it difficult for them to contribute to Python, the Bazaar proponents can revert to an older version of

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

Stephen J. Turnbull xemacs.org> writes: > > > > Whether it is depends on when a DVCS gets selected. If it gets selected > > after lenny+1 has been released, I see no problem with requiring version > > 1.12 (or whatever lenny+1 will then ship with). > > I really hope we won't have to wait tha

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

> I'm *not* ignoring them; I'm stating a strong belief that the great > majority of them will not be adversely affected by this change. Since > almost by definition they're not likely to speak up very much, I'm > happy to hear arguments from a qualified observer (such as yourself) > on their behal

Re: [Python-Dev] Choosing a best practice solution for Python/extension modules

On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 11:07:07 -0800, Brett Cannon wrote: On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 09:17, Jean-Paul Calderone wrote: On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 13:45:26 -0800, Brett Cannon wrote: On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:53, Aahz wrote: On Fri, Feb 20, 2009, Brett Cannon wrote: > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:37,

Re: [Python-Dev] Choosing a best practice solution for Python/extension modules

On 07:07 pm, br...@python.org wrote: On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 09:17, Jean-Paul Calderone wrote: But there is another issue with this: the pure Python code will never call the extension code because the globals will be bound to _pypickle and not _pickle. So if you have something like:: # _

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

"Martin v. Löwis" writes: > so ignoring the primary target group of the setup when discussing > changes to is is, well, counter-productive. I'm *not* ignoring them; I'm stating a strong belief that the great majority of them will not be adversely affected by this change. Since almost by defini

Re: [Python-Dev] Choosing a best practice solution for Python/extension modules

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 09:17, Jean-Paul Calderone wrote: > On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 13:45:26 -0800, Brett Cannon wrote: > >> On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:53, Aahz wrote: >> >> On Fri, Feb 20, 2009, Brett Cannon wrote: >>> > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:37, Brett Cannon wrote: >>> >> On Fri, Feb 20, 20

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

> Wouldn't such hypothetical core Python developers be able to build and > run their own local copy of bzr, using that self-compiled Python? It has been hypothetical for a while, but it never was about core developers. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev ma

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martin v. Löwis wrote: >> I didn't say "from source", I said "from a VCS checkout". If using a >> *specific* recent official release of a core tool is bureaucratically >> infeasible, it would IMO be very unusual if you're allowed to checkout >> and bu

Re: [Python-Dev] A suggestion: Do proto-PEPs in Google Docs

On 21-02-2009, Guido van Rossum wrote: > On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 6:25 AM, wrote: >> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 at 01:12, Jeff Hall wrote: Not that I'm expecting to be working on PEPs any time soon, but just as a different perspective, I would find the effort to open up Google docs to

Re: [Python-Dev] Choosing a best practice solution for Python/extension modules

On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 13:45:26 -0800, Brett Cannon wrote: On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:53, Aahz wrote: On Fri, Feb 20, 2009, Brett Cannon wrote: > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:37, Brett Cannon wrote: >> On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:31, Daniel Stutzbach < >> dan...@stutzbachenterprises.com> wrote: >>

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

> You're ignoring the second paragraph quoted above. I'm *not* denying > that such environments are common. The question is "Do developers > *restricted to such environments* really have an impact on Python > development to outweigh the real cost of standardizing on an older > implementation of B

Re: [Python-Dev] A suggestion: Do proto-PEPs in Google Docs

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 6:25 AM, wrote: > On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 at 01:12, Jeff Hall wrote: >>> >>> Not that I'm expecting to be working on PEPs any time soon, but just as a >>> different perspective, I would find the effort to open up Google docs to >>> be a much higher barrier to doing some editin

Re: [Python-Dev] A suggestion: Do proto-PEPs in Google Docs

On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 at 01:12, Jeff Hall wrote: Not that I'm expecting to be working on PEPs any time soon, but just as a different perspective, I would find the effort to open up Google docs to be a much higher barrier to doing some editing tweaks than the dvcs case. For the DVCS, I'd just write

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

2009/2/21 Stephen J. Turnbull : > Besides, if Barry makes this experiment *now* and enough people speak > up that it will make it difficult for them to contribute to Python, > the Bazaar proponents can revert to an older version of Bazaar before > a final decision is made. In addition, I think it'

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

"Martin v. Löwis" writes: > sjt sez: > > I didn't say "from source", I said "from a VCS checkout". If using a > > *specific* recent official release of a core tool is bureaucratically > > infeasible, it would IMO be very unusual if you're allowed to checkout > > and build arbitrary versions

Re: [Python-Dev] Tkinter problem in Python 3

Hi Klaus, Tkinter was renamed as part of the stdlib reorganization (see the PEP 3108 :http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3108/#tkinter-packagefor more details). The 2to3 tool should handle all those changes automatically, by the way. Cheers, Quentin On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Klaus Müller

Re: [Python-Dev] Tkinter problem in Python 3

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 7:47 AM, Klaus Müller wrote: > Hi! > I am the lead developer of SimPy (http://simpy.sourceforge.net) . Currently, > I am porting SimPy to Python 3. > > SimPy provides Tk/Tkinter-based GUI and plot facilities. > > I find that "import Tkinter" does not work in Python 3, only

[Python-Dev] Tkinter problem in Python 3

Hi! I am the lead developer of SimPy (http://simpy.sourceforge.net) . Currently, I am porting SimPy to Python 3. SimPy provides Tk/Tkinter-based GUI and plot facilities. I find that "import Tkinter" does not work in Python 3, only "import tkinter". What are the changes for Tkinter under Python

Re: [Python-Dev] A suggestion: Do proto-PEPs in Google Docs

-On [20090220 18:51], Guido van Rossum (gu...@python.org) wrote: >I still don't like wikis for this purpose very much -- a person >editing effectively grabs a lock on the whole file. Imagine a Wiki with a cross-polination of Etherpad [1], that would resolve that complaint. [1] http://etherpad.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

> I didn't say "from source", I said "from a VCS checkout". If using a > *specific* recent official release of a core tool is bureaucratically > infeasible, it would IMO be very unusual if you're allowed to checkout > and build arbitrary versions of Python, rather than using a version > provided b

Re: [Python-Dev] A suggestion: Do proto-PEPs in Google Docs

On 21-02-2009, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Summary: > > Google Docs is easy to use, featureful, and here now. Since AIUI the > PEPs eventually need to be hosted at python.org, I see Google Docs as > an immediate replacement for email transmission of early drafts of > PEPs, not as a permanent solu

Re: [Python-Dev] Attention Bazaar mirror users

David Cournapeau writes: > > Er, what are people without access to PPAs doing building Python from > > a VCS checkout? > > I don't see the link between access to PPA and building Python from > sources. I didn't say "from source", I said "from a VCS checkout". If using a *specific* recent o