Re: [Python-Dev] Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Chris Withers writes: > > > aptitude also won't help when: > > - your customer is deploying onto managed machines running RHEL > > True. > > > - debian has an outdated and/or broken version of your package. > > True, but just as for the package system you are adv

Re: [Python-Dev] Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?

Chris Withers writes: > aptitude also won't help when: > - your customer is deploying onto managed machines running RHEL True. > - debian has an outdated and/or broken version of your package. True, but just as for the package system you are advocating, it's quite easy to set up your apt to

Re: [Python-Dev] an unimportant question, ...

This is all over now, but I do think that the change from char to int was made for alignment reasons. I don't know, but I could certainly imagine that aligned memcpy calls are faster. I can't explain why I still put the 3-byte savings comment in SVN -- perhaps I was in a hurry. On Sun, Mar 22, 200

Re: [Python-Dev] tracker status options

On Mon, 23 Mar 2009 at 16:20, Tennessee Leeuwenburg wrote: literally searching for 'not closed' rather than 'open'. I think it's also unclear whether the 'pending' stage means 'suspended pending additional user feedback' or 'resolution of this issue is impending'. My understanding was that it mea

Re: [Python-Dev] Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 6:47 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: >already the introduction of eggs made the life worse for Debian > package maintainers, at least initially - i.e. for a few years. It still is, FWIW, David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-De

Re: [Python-Dev] tracker status options

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 11:00 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: > > That would be great. It occurs to me that if we wanted to use > > "Stage" settings, it would be easy to search for issues which are > > not closed by literally searching for 'not closed' rather than > > 'open'. I think

Re: [Python-Dev] [Roundup-devel] PSF GSoC slot for Roundup?

Daniel (ajax) Diniz wrote: Hi, I'm about to submit a proposal for the PSF to use one GSoC slot for the Python bug tracker. I've collected a few items I think might be interesting for Roundup itself, most of which are valid RFEs for our tracker. Feel free to add more ideas to the list below.

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue workflow doc is now live

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 17:01, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: > > I sent this out as a Google Doc a while back, but I just did > a > > proof-reading, converted it, and pushed it live to the > > python.org > > : http:

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue workflow doc is now live

> I sent this out as a Google Doc a while back, but I just did a > proof-reading, converted it, and pushed it live to the > python.org > : http://www.python.org/dev/workflow/ . > So now people >

Re: [Python-Dev] tracker status options

> That would be great. It occurs to me that if we wanted to use > "Stage" settings, it would be easy to search for issues which are > not closed by literally searching for 'not closed' rather than > 'open'. I think it's also unclear whether the 'pending' stage means > 'suspended

Re: [Python-Dev] tracker status options

2009/3/22 Tennessee Leeuwenburg > Hi Daniel, > > That would be great. It occurs to me that if we wanted to use "Stage" > settings, it would be easy to search for issues which are not closed by > literally searching for 'not closed' rather than 'open'. I think it's also > unclear whether the 'pend

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue workflow doc is now live

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 05:36, Barry Warsaw wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Mar 23, 2009, at 8:31 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > Brett Cannon wrote: >> >>> I sent this out as a Google Doc a while back, but I just did a >>> proof-reading, converted it, and pushed it l

Re: [Python-Dev] Core projects for Summer of Code

> Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but I didn't mean to say that this > version should work on both python 2.x and python 3.x. Ideally, there > would be a PIL distribution for 2.x only and another one for 3.x only. I don't know what Fredrik thinks, but I would not consider this ideal. Ideally, there

Re: [Python-Dev] Core projects for Summer of Code

> I don't disagree, I just don't want to volunteer projects for something > they don't want. Right, there must be clear indication that they are willing to accept the work when it's done. > Note also that some of the largest Python-based projects, Django, I have a working port of Django to Py3k,

Re: [Python-Dev] speeding up PyObject_GetItem

Nick Coghlan wrote: The main problem is that many of these methods are not only used internally, but are *also* part of the public C API made available to extension modules. We want misuse of the latter to trigger exceptions, not segfault the interpreter. But is it worth slowing everything dow

Re: [Python-Dev] Non-Core project: IDLE

Guilherme Polo wrote: On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: IDLE needs lots of attention -- more than any one experienced person is likely to have I'm willing to step up as a student for this but I still have to write a good proposal for it. My actual concern is about mentor avai

Re: [Python-Dev] Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?

Martin v. Löwis wrote: In some environments, each new component must be approved. Once python is approved, the standard library is OK, but adding 7 packages from pypi requires 7 more sets of approvals. True, but as I mentioend elsewhere, I myself haven't done a python project where I only neede

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: Core Python development tools

>> P.S. I don't believe your claim that it forgot changesets. Could it be >> that it simply forgot adding files, and that it did so because you >> already had the files in the sandbox, so that the merging failed? > > It's more weird actually, it actively forgot some changes in some files but > so

Re: [Python-Dev] Non-Core project: IDLE

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > Guilherme Polo wrote: >> >> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: >>> >>> IDLE needs lots of attention -- more than any one experienced person is >>> likely to have >>> >> >> I'm willing to step up as a student for this but I sti

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: Core Python development tools

Martin v. Löwis v.loewis.de> writes: > > P.S. I don't believe your claim that it forgot changesets. Could it be > that it simply forgot adding files, and that it did so because you > already had the files in the sandbox, so that the merging failed? It's more weird actually, it actively forgot so

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: Core Python development tools

Martin v. Löwis wrote: > P.P.S. Are you sure you have to re-merge when somebody commits > something unrelated to the branch? Or just when somebody else merges > as well? The latter is the only one I've ever had problems with (and that was due to me forgetting to update before merging rather than s

Re: [Python-Dev] Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?

I was always able to get what I need through aptitude. >>> Yes, well known for its ability to run on Windows and Mac OS... >> Is it? I had never heard before that aptitude works well on >> Windows (although it does work on OSX). > > I'm actually not quite sure if that was a sarcastic response

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: Core Python development tools

> The real issues with svnmerge are its occasional bugs or failures (it forgot > some changesets when merging in the io-c branch!), its slowness, and its > limitations (which are really inherent to the SVN model: e.g., if someone > commits to the branch you have just started doing an svnmerge to, y

Re: [Python-Dev] Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?

Martin v. Löwis wrote: > In some environments, each new component must be approved. Once > python is approved, the standard library is OK, but adding 7 packages > from pypi requires 7 more sets of approvals. True, but as I mentioend elsewhere, I myself haven't done a python p

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: Core Python development tools

> Everything I've seen from Daniel so far seems to be about either making > things we already do more efficient, or else providing additional > features in ways that don't make the tools any more confusing for others > already used to a particular way of doing things. So he seems to be > navigating

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: Replace MS Windows Console with Unicode UI

On approximately 3/23/2009 12:12 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Terry Reedy: Glenn Linderman wrote: One can set CMD into Unicode mode (chcp 65001)... not sure how Python reacts to that either. But even then... I tried that and others have reported doing so on python

Re: [Python-Dev] Multiprocessing on Solaris

> I've started with a autoconf file for the multiprocessing backport > package. The tests should produce the same set of definitions but I'm > not able to test it on different platforms expect Linux. > http://python-multiprocessing.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/configure.ac If you want to see how it fa

Re: [Python-Dev] speeding up PyObject_GetItem

Daniel Stutzbach wrote: > 1) Assume the index is a PyLong until proven otherwise > > The PyIndex_Check in PyObject_GetItem looks pretty useless. If it > returns false, PyObject_GetItem throws a type error. If we skipped the > PyIndex_Check when it would have returned false, PyNumber_AsSsize_t >

Re: [Python-Dev] Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?

In some environments, each new component must be approved. Once python is approved, the standard library is OK, but adding 7 packages from pypi requires 7 more sets of approvals. >>> True, but as I mentioend elsewhere, I myself haven't done a python >>> project where I only needed p

Re: [Python-Dev] Adding PEP consistent aliases for names that don't currently conform

On Tue, Mar 3 at 19:25:21 Guido van Rossum wrote: > On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 5:15 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 05:13, wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 at 06:01, Ivan Krsti?~G wrote: On Mar 2, 2009, at 7:08 PM, Steve Holden wrote: > > > > ?PS.: so is da

Re: [Python-Dev] Non-Core project: IDLE

Guilherme Polo wrote: On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: IDLE needs lots of attention -- more than any one experienced person is likely to have I'm willing to step up as a student for this but I still have to write a good proposal for it. My actual concern is about mentor av

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: Core Python development tools

2009/3/23 Antoine Pitrou : > Guilherme Polo gmail.com> writes: >> >> Any chance you were not using the latest svnmerge when you did that >> merge ? I've had problems like this when using older versions. > > Well, actually, Benjamin did the merge, so perhaps he can give more info. I was using the

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: Core Python development tools

Guilherme Polo gmail.com> writes: > > Any chance you were not using the latest svnmerge when you did that > merge ? I've had problems like this when using older versions. Well, actually, Benjamin did the merge, so perhaps he can give more info. Regards Antoine. __

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: Core Python development tools

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > Hi, > > Daniel (ajax) Diniz gmail.com> writes: >> >> But the real point is that, regardless of underlying VCS, there is a >> choice between "having all core developers know by heart the right >> switches and order of steps to correctly ch

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: Core Python development tools

Hi, Daniel (ajax) Diniz gmail.com> writes: > > But the real point is that, regardless of underlying VCS, there is a > choice between "having all core developers know by heart the right > switches and order of steps to correctly checkout/update ->( branch > locally) -> fix -> diff -> commit -> m

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: Core Python development tools

Thanks for the feedback, Antoine! Antoine Pitrou wrote: > Daniel (ajax) Diniz gmail.com> writes: >> >>   Sometimes, non-obvious bits like the right sequence of svnmerge >> commands, the right way to link a Rietveld code review to a given >> issue or checking for correct autoconf version might get

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: Core Python development tools

Daniel (ajax) Diniz gmail.com> writes: > > Sometimes, non-obvious bits like the right sequence of svnmerge > commands, the right way to link a Rietveld code review to a given > issue or checking for correct autoconf version might get in the way of > real development. Well, really, rather than

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: Core Python development tools

C. Titus Brown wrote: > Given the relative paucity of core Python GSoC ideas, I think you should > go for both of these, *especially* if you have a mentor up front.  So, > write 'em up, add 'em to the GSoC page, and let's see who we get... > If we get good applications for both, then I think we can

Re: [Python-Dev] Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Antoine Pitrou wrote: > Chris Withers simplistix.co.uk> writes: >> Well, python already has tools available to do exactly this.: >> buildout from a private egg repository will do exactly what you're after. >> >> However, its built on top of setuptools

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: Replace MS Windows Console with Unicode UI

Glenn Linderman wrote: One can set CMD into Unicode mode (chcp 65001)... not sure how Python reacts to that either. But even then... I tried that and others have reported doing so on python-list but no one has gotten that to work. CMD will only use fixed-width fonts, and none of the stan

Re: [Python-Dev] Non-Core project: IDLE

On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > IDLE needs lots of attention -- more than any one experienced person is > likely to have > I'm willing to step up as a student for this but I still have to write a good proposal for it. My actual concern is about mentor availability, is someon

Re: [Python-Dev] Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?

Chris Withers simplistix.co.uk> writes: > > Well, python already has tools available to do exactly this.: > buildout from a private egg repository will do exactly what you're after. > > However, its built on top of setuptools, which is flawed, and it's not > blessed as "official core python", s

[Python-Dev] speeding up PyObject_GetItem

In Python 2.5, list objects were special-cased to skip PyObject_GetItem and go straight to PyList_GET_ITEM. That special case gave made other sequences 20% slower than lists for getitem operations. The special case was removed in Python 3 (haven't checked 2.6). Today I was tracing through how Py

Re: [Python-Dev] Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?

2009/3/23 Chris Withers : > Paul Moore wrote: >> >> I am not. What I *am* doing is saying (obliquely, I admit) is that for >> a package management system to be "decent enough" for stripping down >> the stdlib to not be an issue, it has to address these points (which >> clearly it can't). > > Sure i

Re: [Python-Dev] Multiprocessing on Solaris

Jesse Noller wrote: > Christian - I would appreciate it if we could coordinate/track this on > the tracker too - I had no idea you were doing this in the back port, > and I don't think we want the two code bases to diverge that much. You could not have known about the idea because I started the ex

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: Core Python development tools

> Oh, I heartily endorse his suggestions! I just want to make sure that we > make maximum use of students (and their code doesn't get tossed at the > end of the summer, which has serious morale consequences ;) This is my concern as well. One of my past students pitched a core project and ended u

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: Core Python development tools

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 10:26:54PM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote: -> C. Titus Brown wrote: -> > On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 07:30:01PM -0300, Daniel (ajax) Diniz wrote: -> > I do think you should be prepared for pushback from python-dev on any -> > such ideas ;). Don't get too ambitious about writing up *

Re: [Python-Dev] Multiprocessing on Solaris

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Christian Heimes wrote: > Martin v. Löwis wrote: >> I think multiprocessing is misguided in hard-coding these settings >> into setup.py. As we can see, the necessary features are available >> on some versions of Solaris, but not on others. It would be better >> if

Re: [Python-Dev] packaging (was Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?)

Steve Holden wrote: Some people want an "all batteries and kitchen sink included" distro that they can treat as a single component for configuration control purposes. Others, like you, want the libraries to be separated out to allow separate fixes. Yes, but while the "batteries included" option

Re: [Python-Dev] Multiprocessing on Solaris

Martin v. Löwis wrote: > I think multiprocessing is misguided in hard-coding these settings > into setup.py. As we can see, the necessary features are available > on some versions of Solaris, but not on others. It would be better > if autoconf tests were written, and the entire configuration remove

Re: [Python-Dev] Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?

Trent Mick wrote: Apologies for jumping in mid-thread here. FYI: We're (where "we" == ActiveState here) looking at spending more effort on Python of late. Some of our thoughts are on add modules: whether added to the ActivePython core or easily addable via an equivalent to ActivePerl's ppm (pa

Re: [Python-Dev] Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?

Martin v. Löwis wrote: In some environments, each new component must be approved. Once python is approved, the standard library is OK, but adding 7 packages from pypi requires 7 more sets of approvals. True, but as I mentioend elsewhere, I myself haven't done a python project where I only neede

Re: [Python-Dev] packaging (was Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?)

Chris Withers wrote: > Nick Coghlan wrote: >> Network connectivity isn't a given, even today. > > Indeed, now that is an important consideration. > Packaging systems need to support "offline" modes. Buildout already does... > >> If someone else decides to create a MinimalPython which consists so

Re: [Python-Dev] Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?

R. David Murray wrote: I disagree. One of the jobs I've had is release management for internal software projects that depend on various external pieces. Release integration tested against specific versions of those external packages, and those were the packages that needed to wind up on the syst

Re: [Python-Dev] Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?

Paul Moore wrote: I am not. What I *am* doing is saying (obliquely, I admit) is that for a package management system to be "decent enough" for stripping down the stdlib to not be an issue, it has to address these points (which clearly it can't). Sure it can, either by supporting "offline bundl

Re: [Python-Dev] packaging (was Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?)

Nick Coghlan wrote: Network connectivity isn't a given, even today. Indeed, now that is an important consideration. Packaging systems need to support "offline" modes. Buildout already does... If someone else decides to create a MinimalPython which consists solely of something like easy_instal

Re: [Python-Dev] Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?

Lie Ryan wrote: Some companies have /very/ strict policies on running anything on live server, including scripts you write yourself. The problem is if the script goes awry, it might disturb the stability or even security of the server. Yes, "we" as a profession right software and have respons

Re: [Python-Dev] Integrate BeautifulSoup into stdlib?

Tres Seaver wrote: Given that the out-of-the-box Python install already has facilities for retrieving text over the net and executing that text, the notion of "locking down" a machine to include only the bits installed in the stock Python install is just "security theatre;" such a machine should

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue workflow doc is now live

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Mar 23, 2009, at 8:31 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: Brett Cannon wrote: I sent this out as a Google Doc a while back, but I just did a proof-reading, converted it, and pushed it live to the python.org : http://www.python.org/dev/wor

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue workflow doc is now live

Brett Cannon wrote: > I sent this out as a Google Doc a while back, but I just did a > proof-reading, converted it, and pushed it live to the python.org > : http://www.python.org/dev/workflow/ . So now people > who ever triage issues have a guide to follow if they are not sure ho

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: Core Python development tools

C. Titus Brown wrote: > On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 07:30:01PM -0300, Daniel (ajax) Diniz wrote: > I do think you should be prepared for pushback from python-dev on any > such ideas ;). Don't get too ambitious about writing up *your* way of > fixing things, but rather make sure you and the students ar

Re: [Python-Dev] Multiprocessing on Solaris

Martin v. Löwis wrote: >> Sorry, I mistakenly said "without issue" and then copied the issues >> below. I meant to say "not without issues." _multiprocessing does *not* >> build on Solaris 8. > > Hmm. They are all warnings - did you omit the actual error message? > > The lack of CMSG_LEN seems to

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: Replace MS Windows Console with Unicode UI

> 2) IDLE does much better but its support seems to still be imcomplete. > Upgrade tk/tkinter/IDLE (wherever the problems lie) and make IDLE's > shell an alternate UI. That is certainly *no* good SoC project. Instead, just report it as a *specific* bug report (rather than saying "it seems incomple

Re: [Python-Dev] Multiprocessing on Solaris

> Sorry, I mistakenly said "without issue" and then copied the issues > below. I meant to say "not without issues." _multiprocessing does *not* > build on Solaris 8. Hmm. They are all warnings - did you omit the actual error message? The lack of CMSG_LEN seems to suggest that control messages are