Re: [Python-Dev] Updated PEP 362 (Function Signature Object)

2012-06-11 Thread Benjamin Peterson
2012/6/10 Alexandre Zani alexandre.z...@gmail.com: I prefer the flags. Flags means I can just look at the Parameter object. A type or kind or whatever means I need to compare to a bunch of constants. That's more stuff to remember. I don't see why remembering 4 names is any harder than

Re: [Python-Dev] Updated PEP 362 (Function Signature Object)

2012-06-11 Thread Alexandre Zani
On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 11:13 PM, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: 2012/6/10 Alexandre Zani alexandre.z...@gmail.com: I prefer the flags. Flags means I can just look at the Parameter object. A type or kind or whatever means I need to compare to a bunch of constants. That's more

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

2012-06-11 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: But what guarantee do you have that (a) the right people sign up for the new list, and (b) topics are correctly brought up there instead of on python-dev? I agree that python-dev is turning into a firehose, but I am

Re: [Python-Dev] VS 11 Express is Metro only.

2012-06-11 Thread Jesse Noller
On Friday, June 8, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Meador Inge wrote: On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 7:06 AM, mar...@v.loewis.de (mailto:mar...@v.loewis.de) wrote: I hereby predict that Microsoft will revert this decision, and that VS Express 11 will be able to build CPython. And your prediction

Re: [Python-Dev] TZ-aware local time

2012-06-11 Thread Alexander Belopolsky
On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 11:06 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Alexander Belopolsky alexander.belopol...@gmail.com wrote: .. t = mktime((2010, 11, 7, 1, 0, 0, -1, -1, 0)) for i in range(5): ...     print(strftime(%T%z, localtime(t + i - 2))) ...

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

2012-06-11 Thread Eric Snow
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:58 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: But what guarantee do you have that (a) the right people sign up for the new list, and (b) topics are correctly brought up there instead of on

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

2012-06-11 Thread Alex Gaynor
Eric Snow ericsnowcurrently at gmail.com writes: Nick's option 2 would be an improvement, but I imagine that option 3 would have been the most effective by far. Of course, the key thing is how closely the various implementors would follow the new list. Only they could say, though Frank

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

2012-06-11 Thread Jeff Hardy
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com wrote: Nick's option 2 would be an improvement, but I imagine that option 3 would have been the most effective by far.  Of course, the key thing is how closely the various implementors would follow the new list. Only they

Re: [Python-Dev] TZ-aware local time

2012-06-11 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 6:33 AM, Alexander Belopolsky alexander.belopol...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 11:06 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Alexander Belopolsky alexander.belopol...@gmail.com wrote: .. t = mktime((2010, 11, 7, 1, 0, 0,

Re: [Python-Dev] TZ-aware local time

2012-06-11 Thread R. David Murray
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:01:57 -0700, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 6:33 AM, Alexander Belopolsky alexander.belopol...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 11:06 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Alexander

Re: [Python-Dev] TZ-aware local time

2012-06-11 Thread Alexander Belopolsky
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: .. Maybe the problem here is the *input*? It should be a POSIX timestamp, not a datetime object. No. Seconds since epoch or POSIX timestamp is a foreign data type to the datetime module. An aware datetime object with

Re: [Python-Dev] TZ-aware local time

2012-06-11 Thread Guido van Rossum
Let's agree to disagree. I don't have the time to argue any more but you haven't convinced me. On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Alexander Belopolsky alexander.belopol...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: .. Maybe the problem here is the

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

2012-06-11 Thread PJ Eby
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Jeff Hardy jdha...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com wrote: Nick's option 2 would be an improvement, but I imagine that option 3 would have been the most effective by far. Of course, the key thing is

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

2012-06-11 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Jun 11, 2012, at 04:58 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: 1. Asking on python-dev is considered adequate. If an implementation wants to be consulted on changes, one or more of their developers *must* follow python-dev sufficiently closely that they don't miss cross-VM compatibility questions. That's

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

2012-06-11 Thread Brett Cannon
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:35 PM, PJ Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Jeff Hardy jdha...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com wrote: Nick's option 2 would be an improvement, but I imagine that option 3

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

2012-06-11 Thread Brett Cannon
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote: On Jun 11, 2012, at 04:58 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: 1. Asking on python-dev is considered adequate. If an implementation wants to be consulted on changes, one or more of their developers *must* follow python-dev

Re: [Python-Dev] TZ-aware local time

2012-06-11 Thread Ben Finney
Alexander Belopolsky alexander.belopol...@gmail.com writes: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: Maybe the problem here is the *input*? It should be a POSIX timestamp, not a datetime object. No. Seconds since epoch or POSIX timestamp is a foreign data

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

2012-06-11 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Brett Cannon writes: But we already have the various SIGs carry out discussions outside of python-dev and just bring forward their results to python-dev when they are ready. Why would this list be any different? (1) Because AIUI the main problem this list is supposed to solve is

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

2012-06-11 Thread fwierzbi...@gmail.com
On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 11:58 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: 1. Asking on python-dev is considered adequate. If an implementation wants to be consulted on changes, one or more of their developers *must* follow python-dev sufficiently closely that they don't miss cross-VM

[Python-Dev] Built-in sub modules

2012-06-11 Thread Albert Zeyer
Hi, I just created some code to support built-in sub modules. The naive way I tried first was just to add {Mod.Sub1.Sub2, init_modsub1sub2} to _PyImport_Inittab. This didn't worked. Maybe it would be a nice addition so that this works. Mod itself, in my case, was a package directory with pure

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

2012-06-11 Thread Brett Cannon
On Monday, June 11, 2012, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Brett Cannon writes: But we already have the various SIGs carry out discussions outside of python-dev and just bring forward their results to python-dev when they are ready. Why would this list be any different? (1) Because AIUI

Re: [Python-Dev] Built-in sub modules

2012-06-11 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Albert Zeyer alb...@googlemail.com wrote: I also searched a bit around and I didn't directly found any easier way to do this. Only a post from 2009 (http://mail.python.org/pipermail/cplusplus-sig/2009-January/014178.html) which seems like a much more ugly hack.

Re: [Python-Dev] TZ-aware local time

2012-06-11 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Ben Finney ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au wrote: Alexander Belopolsky alexander.belopol...@gmail.com writes: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: Maybe the problem here is the *input*? It should be a POSIX timestamp, not a

Re: [Python-Dev] TZ-aware local time

2012-06-11 Thread Ben Finney
Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org writes: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Ben Finney ben+pyt...@benfinney.id.au wrote: Unambiguous storage of absolute time can be achieved with POSIX timestamps, but that is certainly not the only nor best way to do it. For example, RFC 5322

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

2012-06-11 Thread Terry Reedy
On 6/11/2012 11:13 PM, fwierzbi...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 11:58 PM, Nick Coghlanncogh...@gmail.com wrote: 2. As 1, but we adopt a subject line convention to make it easier to filter out general python-dev traffic for those that are just interested in cross-vm questions

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

2012-06-11 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: This is simple to try and see what happens. [X] or [XI] for X(cross) implementation. To allow easier transition to a separate list (if that seems necessary at a later date), my preferred colour for the bikeshed is