On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Gregory P. Smith g...@krypto.org wrote:
On May 19, 2013 4:31 PM, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote:
2013/5/19 Gregory P. Smith g...@krypto.org:
Idea: I don't believe anybody has written a fixer for lib2to3 that
applies
fixers to doctests.
On Sat, 18 May 2013 23:41:59 -0700
Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote:
We should continue to encourage users to make thorough unit tests
and to leave doctests for documentation. That said, it should be
recognized that some testing is better than no testing. And doctests
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On 05/19/2013 07:22 PM, Mark Janssen wrote:
On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com
wrote:
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On 05/19/2013 10:48 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
Anyway, if you're doing
Hi all,
On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Maciej Fijalkowski fij...@gmail.com wrote:
Note that raymonds proposal would make dicts and ordereddicts almost
exactly the same speed.
Just checking: in view of Raymond's proposal, is there a good reason
against having all dicts be systematically
20.05.13 01:33, Benjamin Peterson написав(ла):
2013/5/19 Demian Brecht demianbre...@gmail.com:
It seems like external docs is standard throughout the stdlib. Is
there an actual reason for this?
ernal
One is legacy. It certainly wasn't possible with the old LaTeX doc
system.
Do you know that
On 20.05.13 14:37, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
20.05.13 01:33, Benjamin Peterson написав(ла):
2013/5/19 Demian Brecht demianbre...@gmail.com:
It seems like external docs is standard throughout the stdlib. Is
there an actual reason for this?
ernal
One is legacy. It certainly wasn't possible with
On 20/05/13 20:45, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Sat, 18 May 2013 23:41:59 -0700
Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote:
We should continue to encourage users to make thorough unit tests
and to leave doctests for documentation. That said, it should be
recognized that some testing is
As a quick reminder, PEP 409 allows this:
try:
...
except AnError:
raise SomeOtherError from None
so that if the exception is not caught, we get the traditional single exception
traceback, instead of the new:
During handling of the above exception, another
On Mon, 20 May 2013 23:32:10 +1000
Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote:
On 20/05/13 20:45, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Sat, 18 May 2013 23:41:59 -0700
Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote:
We should continue to encourage users to make thorough unit tests
and to leave
On May 20, 2013, at 02:30 PM, Armin Rigo wrote:
Just checking: in view of Raymond's proposal, is there a good reason
against having all dicts be systematically ordered? It would
definitely improve the debugging experience, by making multiple runs
of the same program more like each other,
On Mon, 20 May 2013 12:45:57 +0200, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
On Sat, 18 May 2013 23:41:59 -0700
Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote:
We should continue to encourage users to make thorough unit tests
and to leave doctests for documentation. That said, it
On Mon, 20 May 2013 15:02:08 +0200, Stefan Drees ste...@drees.name wrote:
On 20.05.13 14:37, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
20.05.13 01:33, Benjamin Peterson напиÑав(ла):
2013/5/19 Demian Brecht demianbre...@gmail.com:
It seems like external docs is standard throughout the stdlib. Is
On 20 May 2013 23:38, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote:
As a quick reminder, PEP 409 allows this:
try:
...
except AnError:
raise SomeOtherError from None
so that if the exception is not caught, we get the traditional single
exception traceback, instead of the
On Mon, 20 May 2013 06:12:41 -0700, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote:
As a quick reminder, PEP 409 allows this:
try:
...
except AnError:
raise SomeOtherError from None
so that if the exception is not caught, we get the traditional single
exception
On Mon, 20 May 2013 09:37:32 -0400
R. David Murray rdmur...@bitdance.com wrote:
On Mon, 20 May 2013 12:45:57 +0200, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net
wrote:
On Sat, 18 May 2013 23:41:59 -0700
Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote:
We should continue to encourage users
On 05/20/2013 06:47 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
On 20 May 2013 23:38, Ethan Furman wrote:
As a quick reminder, PEP 409 allows this:
try:
...
except AnError:
raise SomeOtherError from None
so that if the exception is not caught, we get the traditional single exception
On Mon, 20 May 2013 15:57:35 +0200, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
On Mon, 20 May 2013 09:37:32 -0400
R. David Murray rdmur...@bitdance.com wrote:
On Mon, 20 May 2013 12:45:57 +0200, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net
wrote:
On Sat, 18 May 2013 23:41:59 -0700
Raymond
On Mon, 20 May 2013 07:12:07 -0700, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote:
As a case in point, base64.py is currently getting a bug fix, and also
contains this code:
def b32decode(s, casefold=False, map01=None):
.
.
.
for i in range(0, len(s), 8):
quanta =
On May 18, 2013, at 11:41 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote:
I'm hoping that core developers don't get caught-up in the doctests are bad
meme.
Thanks for your message Raymond. I know that doctests are controversial, but
I do firmly believe that when used correctly, they have value and should not
be
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 6:39 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote:
Or in other words, if dicts are to be ordered, let's make it an explicit
language feature that we can measure compliance against.
Guaranteeing a dict order would be tough on Jython - today it's nice
that we can just have a
On May 19, 2013, at 07:28 PM, Tim Peters wrote:
But more than just one ;-) Another great use has nothing to do with
docstrings: using an entire file as a doctest. This encourages
writing lots of text explaining what you're doing,. with snippets of
code interspersed to illustrate that the code
On May 19, 2013, at 04:27 PM, Gregory P. Smith wrote:
Idea: I don't believe anybody has written a fixer for lib2to3 that applies
fixers to doctests. That'd be an interesting project for someone.
I'm not sure that's true. I don't use 2to3 anymore if I can help it, but I'm
pretty sure you can
I think that kills the let's make all dicts ordered idea, even for
CPython. I wouldn't want people to start relying on this. The dict type
should be clearly recognizable as the hash table it is.
Making **kwds ordered is still open, but requires careful design and
implementation to avoid slowing
On 05/20/2013 07:50 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
On Mon, 20 May 2013 07:12:07 -0700, Ethan Furman wrote:
As a case in point, base64.py is currently getting a bug fix, and also
contains this code:
def b32decode(s, casefold=False, map01=None):
.
.
.
for i in range(0,
On 21/05/13 00:12, Ethan Furman wrote:
As a case in point, base64.py is currently getting a bug fix, and also contains
this code:
def b32decode(s, casefold=False, map01=None):
.
.
.
for i in range(0, len(s), 8):
quanta = s[i: i + 8]
acc = 0
try:
On Mon, 20 May 2013 07:12:07 -0700
Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote:
As a case in point, base64.py is currently getting a bug fix, and also
contains this code:
def b32decode(s, casefold=False, map01=None):
.
.
.
for i in range(0, len(s), 8):
quanta =
On 20/05/13 23:38, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Mon, 20 May 2013 23:32:10 +1000
Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote:
On 20/05/13 20:45, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Sat, 18 May 2013 23:41:59 -0700
Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote:
We should continue to encourage users to
On Tue, 21 May 2013 02:00:32 +1000
Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote:
On 20/05/13 23:38, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Mon, 20 May 2013 23:32:10 +1000
Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote:
On 20/05/13 20:45, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Sat, 18 May 2013 23:41:59 -0700
Raymond
Hi !
:)
I'll be replying some individual messages in this thread in spite of
putting my replies in the right context . Sorry if I repeat something
, or this makes the thread hard to read . Indeed , IMHO this is a
subject suitable to discuss in TiP ML .
On 5/19/13, Gregory P. Smith
-- Forwarded message --
From: Olemis Lang ole...@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 20 May 2013 11:33:42 -0500
Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Purpose of Doctests [Was: Best practices for Enum]
To: Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net
On 5/20/13, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
On Sat, 18
I'm hoping that core developers don't get caught-up in the doctests are bad
meme.
Instead, we should be clear about their primary purpose which is to test
the examples given in docstrings.
In other words, doctests have a perfectly legitimate use case.
But more than just one ;-) Another
Am 20.05.2013 17:39, schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
On 21/05/13 00:12, Ethan Furman wrote:
As a case in point, base64.py is currently getting a bug fix, and also
contains this code:
def b32decode(s, casefold=False, map01=None): . . . for i in range(0,
len(s), 8): quanta = s[i: i + 8] acc = 0
On 5/19/13, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote:
On 20/05/13 09:27, Gregory P. Smith wrote:
On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 11:41 PM, Raymond Hettinger
raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote:
On May 14, 2013, at 9:39 AM, Gregory P. Smith g...@krypto.org wrote:
Bad: doctests.
I'm hoping that
I have pondered it many times, although usually in the form Why do we
need both str and repr?
Here's an idea: considering python objects are stateful. Make a
general, state-query operator: ?. Then the distinction is clear.
?This is a string #Returns the contents of the string
This is a
20.05.13 16:12, Ethan Furman написав(ла):
As a quick reminder, PEP 409 allows this:
try:
...
except AnError:
raise SomeOtherError from None
so that if the exception is not caught, we get the traditional single
exception traceback, instead of the new:
During
On 5/20/2013 11:39 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On 21/05/13 00:12, Ethan Furman wrote:
As a case in point, base64.py is currently getting a bug fix, and also
contains this code:
def b32decode(s, casefold=False, map01=None):
.
.
.
for i in range(0, len(s), 8):
On 05/20/2013 11:14 AM, Mark Janssen wrote:
I have pondered it many times, although usually in the form Why do we
need both str and repr?
Here's an idea: considering python objects are stateful. Make a
general, state-query operator: ?. Then the distinction is clear.
-- ?This is a string
On 05/20/2013 11:32 AM, Terry Jan Reedy wrote:
On 5/20/2013 11:39 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On 21/05/13 00:12, Ethan Furman wrote:
As a case in point, base64.py is currently getting a bug fix, and also
contains this code:
def b32decode(s, casefold=False, map01=None):
.
.
.
On May 20, 2013, at 11:46 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
On Mon, 20 May 2013 07:12:07 -0700
Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote:
As a case in point, base64.py is currently getting a bug fix, and also
contains this code:
def b32decode(s, casefold=False, map01=None):
On 21 May 2013 05:01, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote:
On 05/20/2013 11:32 AM, Terry Jan Reedy wrote:
On 5/20/2013 11:39 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On 21/05/13 00:12, Ethan Furman wrote:
As a case in point, base64.py is currently getting a bug fix, and also
contains this code:
On 20 May 2013, at 18:26, Mark Janssen dreamingforw...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm hoping that core developers don't get caught-up in the doctests are bad
meme.
Instead, we should be clear about their primary purpose which is to test
the examples given in docstrings.
In other words, doctests
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Greg Ewing
greg.ew...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote:
Joao S. O. Bueno wrote:
Actually, when I was thinking on the subject I came to the same idea, of
having
some functions marked differently so they would use a different call
mechanism -
but them I wondered around
I don't think a python-dev discussion about the value of doctests is going to
change minds one way or the other, but I just *had* to respond to this one
point:
On May 20, 2013, at 11:26 PM, Michael Foord wrote:
* Doctests practically beg you to write your code first and then copy and
* paste
On 5/19/2013 9:08 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
On 05/19/2013 05:24 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
This is the point I was trying to make: once you use IntEnum (as you
would in any case where you need bitwise operators), Enum gets out of
the way for everything other than __str__, __repr__, and one other
Hi !
... sorry , I could not avoid to reply this message ...
On 5/20/13, Michael Foord fuzzy...@voidspace.org.uk wrote:
On 20 May 2013, at 18:26, Mark Janssen dreamingforw...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm hoping that core developers don't get caught-up in the doctests are
bad
meme.
Instead, we
On 5/20/13, Olemis Lang ole...@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
On 5/20/13, Michael Foord fuzzy...@voidspace.org.uk wrote:
[...]
* Tool support for editing within doctests is *generally* worse
this is true , let's do it !
[...]
* Typing and ... all the time is really annoying
... I have faith ...
* Doctests practically beg you to write your code first and then copy and
paste terminal sessions - they're the enemy of TDD
Of course , not , all the opposite . If the approach is understood
correctly then the first thing test author will do is to write the
code «expected» to get something
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