Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 7:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On 16/08/13 04:10, Eric V. Smith wrote: > > I agree with Mark: the proposed median, median.low, etc., doesn't feel >> right. Is there any example of doing this in the stdlib? >> > > The most obvious case is datetime: we have datetime(), an

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

On 8/15/2013 10:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On 16/08/13 04:10, Eric V. Smith wrote: > >> I agree with Mark: the proposed median, median.low, etc., doesn't feel >> right. Is there any example of doing this in the stdlib? > > The most obvious case is datetime: we have datetime(), and > datetime

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

On 8/15/2013 10:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: The most obvious case is datetime: we have datetime(), and datetime.now(), datetime.today(), and datetime.strftime(). The only API difference between it and median is that datetime is a type and median is not, but that's a difference that makes no di

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

On 16/08/13 04:24, R. David Murray wrote: I too prefer the median_low naming rather than median.low. I'm not sure I can articulate why, but certainly the fact that that latter isn't used anywhere else in the stdlib that I can think of is probably a lot of it:) And the reason it's not used in t

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

On 16/08/13 04:10, Eric V. Smith wrote: I agree with Mark: the proposed median, median.low, etc., doesn't feel right. Is there any example of doing this in the stdlib? The most obvious case is datetime: we have datetime(), and datetime.now(), datetime.today(), and datetime.strftime(). The onl

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 23:28:39 +0300, Michael Foord wrote: > > On 15 Aug 2013, at 21:10, "Eric V. Smith" wrote: > > > On 08/15/2013 01:58 PM, Mark Dickinson wrote: > >> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Steven D'Aprano >> > wrote: > >> > >> > >>- Each scheme end

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

+1 for the PEP in general from me, but using the underscore based pseudo-namespace for the median variants. The attribute approach isn't *wrong*, just surprising enough that I think independent functions with the "median_" prefix in their name is a better idea. Cheers, Nick. _

Re: [Python-Dev] When to remove deprecated stuff (was: Deprecating the formatter module)

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 8:36 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > >> > A number of us (I don't know how many) have clearly been thinking about >> > "Python 4" as the time when we remove cruft. This will not cause any >> > backward compatibility issue

[Python-Dev] PEP 452 API for Cryptographic Hash Functions v2.0

Hello, I have written a revised version of PEP 247. It's heavily based on AMKs original version from 2001. Version 2.0 adds ``name`` and ``block_size`` as mandatory attributes. It defines that hashing objects operate only on byte-like objects in Python 3.x, too. I have also developed an abstract

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

On 8/14/2013 9:25 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Hi all, I have raised a tracker item and PEP for adding a statistics module to the standard library: http://bugs.python.org/issue18606 http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0450/ There has been considerable discussion on python-ideas, I have avoided

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

On 8/15/2013 4:16 PM, Eric V. Smith wrote: itertools.chain.from_iterable. But I think that was a mistake, too. As a recent discussion showed, it's not exactly discoverable. The fact that it's not mentioned in the list of functions at the top of the documentation doesn't help. And "chain" is docum

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

On 8/15/2013 2:24 PM, R. David Murray wrote: > On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:10:39 -0400, "Eric V. Smith" > wrote: >> On 08/15/2013 01:58 PM, Mark Dickinson wrote: >>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Steven D'Aprano >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> - Each scheme ended up needing

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

> > > > And I guess this is subjective: conversely, the API you're proposing > > > doesn't feel Pythonic to me. :-) I'd like the hear the opinion of > other > > > python-dev readers. > > > > I agree with Mark: the proposed median, median.low, etc., doesn't feel > > right. Is there any example of

Re: [Python-Dev] format, int, and IntEnum

On 08/15/2013 10:44 AM, Eric V. Smith wrote: On 08/15/2013 11:21 AM, Ethan Furman wrote: Given that the !r and !s format codes can be used to get the repr and str of an IntEnum, would it be acceptable to have IntEnum's __format__ simply pass through to int's __format__? And likewise with all mi

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:24:50 -0400 "R. David Murray" wrote: > On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:10:39 -0400, "Eric V. Smith" > wrote: > > On 08/15/2013 01:58 PM, Mark Dickinson wrote: > > > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Steven D'Aprano > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > -

Re: [Python-Dev] When to remove deprecated stuff

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 13:34:12 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 8/15/2013 8:29 AM, R. David Murray wrote: > > A number of us (I don't know how many) have clearly been thinking about > > "Python 4" as the time when we remove cruft. This will not cause any > > backward compatibility issues for anyone w

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 14:10:39 -0400, "Eric V. Smith" wrote: > On 08/15/2013 01:58 PM, Mark Dickinson wrote: > > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Steven D'Aprano > > wrote: > > > > > > - Each scheme ended up needing to be a separate function, for ease > > of bo

Re: [Python-Dev] When to remove deprecated stuff

On 15/08/2013 13:29, R. David Murray wrote: On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:22:14 +0200, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:16:20 +0200 Victor Stinner wrote: > 2013/8/15 Antoine Pitrou : > > We don't have any substantial change in store for an eventual "Python > > 4", so it's quite a remote h

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

On 08/15/2013 01:58 PM, Mark Dickinson wrote: > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Steven D'Aprano > wrote: > > > - Each scheme ended up needing to be a separate function, for ease > of both implementation and testing. So I had four private median > function

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 6:48 PM, Ryan wrote: > For the naming, how about changing median(callable) to median.regular? > That way, we don't have to deal with a callable namespace. > Hmm. That sounds like a step backwards to me: whatever the API is, a simple "from statistics import median; m = m

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

For the naming, how about changing median(callable) to median.regular? That way, we don't have to deal with a callable namespace. Steven D'Aprano wrote: >On 15/08/13 21:42, Mark Dickinson wrote: >> The PEP and code look generally good to me. >> >> I think the API for median and its variants des

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > - Each scheme ended up needing to be a separate function, for ease of both > implementation and testing. So I had four private median functions, which I > put inside a class to act as namespace and avoid polluting the main > namespace. Th

Re: [Python-Dev] format, int, and IntEnum

On 08/15/2013 11:21 AM, Ethan Furman wrote: > Given that the !r and !s format codes can be used to get the repr and > str of an IntEnum, would it be acceptable to have IntEnum's __format__ > simply pass through to int's __format__? And likewise with all mix-in > classes? That helps with str.forma

Re: [Python-Dev] format, int, and IntEnum

On 08/15/2013 11:06 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 15 August 2013 05:03, Eric V. Smith wrote: >> On 8/15/2013 12:27 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >>> I think Eric is overinterpreting the spec, there. While that particular >>> sentence requires that the empty format string will be equivalent to a >>> plain

Re: [Python-Dev] When to remove deprecated stuff

On 8/15/2013 8:29 AM, R. David Murray wrote: A number of us (I don't know how many) have clearly been thinking about "Python 4" as the time when we remove cruft. This will not cause any backward compatibility issues for anyone who has paid heed to the deprecation warnings, but will for those wh

[Python-Dev] Issue 13248: 3.4 Removals?

Related to the current deprecation discussion: http://bugs.python.org/issue13248 This is a master list of deprecated items scheduled for removal in 3.4. Anything that is going to be removed should be done now, before the next alpha, methinks. -- Terry Jan Reedy __

Re: [Python-Dev] format, int, and IntEnum

> This got me thinking when we were discussing it in the issue. It's > plausible that every subclass of builtin types will need to implement > __format__ to act sanely. So maybe we can propose some sort of API (on the > Python level) that makes parsing the format string easy and will not make > cod

Re: [Python-Dev] format, int, and IntEnum

On Aug 15, 2013, at 11:36 AM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > > > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 8:15 AM, Eric V. Smith wrote: >> On Aug 15, 2013, at 10:59 AM, Eli Bendersky wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:03 AM, Eric V. Smith wrote: On 8/15/2013 12:27 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:

Re: [Python-Dev] format, int, and IntEnum

Given that the !r and !s format codes can be used to get the repr and str of an IntEnum, would it be acceptable to have IntEnum's __format__ simply pass through to int's __format__? And likewise with all mix-in classes? -- ~Ethan~ ___ Python-Dev maili

Re: [Python-Dev] format, int, and IntEnum

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 8:15 AM, Eric V. Smith wrote: > On Aug 15, 2013, at 10:59 AM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:03 AM, Eric V. Smith wrote: > >> On 8/15/2013 12:27 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >> > I think Eric is overinterpreting the spec, there. While that particular

Re: [Python-Dev] When to remove deprecated stuff (was: Deprecating the formatter module)

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Ezio Melotti wrote: > Hi, > > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:29 PM, R. David Murray > wrote: > > On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:22:14 +0200, Antoine Pitrou > wrote: > >> On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:16:20 +0200 > >> Victor Stinner wrote: > >> > 2013/8/15 Antoine Pitrou : > >> > >

Re: [Python-Dev] format, int, and IntEnum

On Aug 15, 2013, at 10:59 AM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > > > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:03 AM, Eric V. Smith wrote: >> On 8/15/2013 12:27 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >> > I think Eric is overinterpreting the spec, there. While that particular >> > sentence requires that the empty format string will

Re: [Python-Dev] format, int, and IntEnum

On 15 August 2013 05:03, Eric V. Smith wrote: > On 8/15/2013 12:27 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: >> I think Eric is overinterpreting the spec, there. While that particular >> sentence requires that the empty format string will be equivalent to a >> plain str() operation for builtin types, it is only a r

Re: [Python-Dev] When to remove deprecated stuff

On 08/15/2013 05:40 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: What we should probably do is have unittest turn deprecations on by default when running your tests but leave them silent otherwise. I still think keeping them silent for the benefit of end-users is a good thing as long as we make it easier for devel

Re: [Python-Dev] format, int, and IntEnum

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:03 AM, Eric V. Smith wrote: > On 8/15/2013 12:27 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > I think Eric is overinterpreting the spec, there. While that particular > > sentence requires that the empty format string will be equivalent to a > > plain str() operation for builtin types, it

Re: [Python-Dev] When to remove deprecated stuff (was: Deprecating the formatter module)

Hi, On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:29 PM, R. David Murray wrote: > On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:22:14 +0200, Antoine Pitrou > wrote: >> On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:16:20 +0200 >> Victor Stinner wrote: >> > 2013/8/15 Antoine Pitrou : >> > > We don't have any substantial change in store for an eventual "Python

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

On 15/08/13 21:42, Mark Dickinson wrote: The PEP and code look generally good to me. I think the API for median and its variants deserves some wider discussion: the reference implementation has a callable 'median', and variant callables 'median.low', 'median.high', 'median.grouped'. The pattern

Re: [Python-Dev] When to remove deprecated stuff (was: Deprecating the formatter module)

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 8:36 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:29:35 -0400 > "R. David Murray" wrote: > > > On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:22:14 +0200, Antoine Pitrou > wrote: > > > On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:16:20 +0200 > > > Victor Stinner wrote: > > > > 2013/8/15 Antoine Pitrou : > > >

Re: [Python-Dev] When to remove deprecated stuff (was: Deprecating the formatter module)

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 8:29 AM, R. David Murray wrote: > On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:22:14 +0200, Antoine Pitrou > wrote: > > On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:16:20 +0200 > > Victor Stinner wrote: > > > 2013/8/15 Antoine Pitrou : > > > > We don't have any substantial change in store for an eventual "Python >

Re: [Python-Dev] When to remove deprecated stuff (was: Deprecating the formatter module)

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 08:29:35 -0400 "R. David Murray" wrote: > On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:22:14 +0200, Antoine Pitrou > wrote: > > On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:16:20 +0200 > > Victor Stinner wrote: > > > 2013/8/15 Antoine Pitrou : > > > > We don't have any substantial change in store for an eventual "Pyt

Re: [Python-Dev] When to remove deprecated stuff (was: Deprecating the formatter module)

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:22:14 +0200, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:16:20 +0200 > Victor Stinner wrote: > > 2013/8/15 Antoine Pitrou : > > > We don't have any substantial change in store for an eventual "Python > > > 4", so it's quite a remote hypothesis right now. > > > > I prefe

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 5:22 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:16:20 +0200 > Victor Stinner wrote: > > 2013/8/15 Antoine Pitrou : > > > We don't have any substantial change in store for an eventual "Python > > > 4", so it's quite a remote hypothesis right now. > > > > I prefered

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 2:25 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Can I request that people please look at this issue, with an aim to ruling > on the PEP and (hopefully) adding the module to 3.4 before feature freeze? > If it is accepted, I am willing to be primary maintainer for this module in > the futu

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

On 15/08/13 11:49, Terry Reedy wrote: On 8/14/2013 9:25 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: The tests aren't yet integrated with the test runner but are runnable manually. What do you mean? With the changes I gave you, they run fine as part of the test suite. I'm sorry Terry, at the time I posted I

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 450 adding statistics module

The PEP and code look generally good to me. I think the API for median and its variants deserves some wider discussion: the reference implementation has a callable 'median', and variant callables 'median.low', 'median.high', 'median.grouped'. The pattern of attaching the variant callables as attr

Re: [Python-Dev] format, int, and IntEnum

On 8/15/2013 12:27 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > I think Eric is overinterpreting the spec, there. While that particular > sentence requires that the empty format string will be equivalent to a > plain str() operation for builtin types, it is only a recommendation for > other types. For enums, I believ

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:16:20 +0200 Victor Stinner wrote: > 2013/8/15 Antoine Pitrou : > > We don't have any substantial change in store for an eventual "Python > > 4", so it's quite a remote hypothesis right now. > > I prefered the transition between Linux 2 and Linux 3 (no major > change, just a

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

2013/8/15 Antoine Pitrou : > We don't have any substantial change in store for an eventual "Python > 4", so it's quite a remote hypothesis right now. I prefered the transition between Linux 2 and Linux 3 (no major change, just a "normal" release except the version), rather than the transition betw

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecating the formatter module

On Thu, 15 Aug 2013 11:28:52 +1000 Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > These are all very good arguments, for both sides, and it is a balance > between code churn and bit rot, but on balance I'm going to come down firmly > in favour of Nick's earlier recommendation: PendingDeprecation (and/or a move >

Re: [Python-Dev] format and int subclasses (Was: format, int, and IntEnum)

15.08.13 06:23, Eli Bendersky написав(ла): Yes, the problem here is certainly not IntEnum - specific; it's just that IntEnum is the first "for real" use case of subclassing 'int' in the stdlib. Even not the first. >> '{}'.format(True) 'True' >>> '{:10}'.format(True) ' 1'