Re: [Python-Dev] support of the android platform

2016-04-26 Thread Stefan Krah 
Xavier de Gaye  gmail.com> writes:
> Yes, I am re-licensing GPL code to the PSF for all the patches written by me
> in the issues listed on http://bugs.python.org/issue26865#msg264310.  I have
> only rewritten the patches from scratch in the following issues:

Thanks, this all sounds good.


> issue #26854: missing header on android for the ossaudiodev module
>(actually it's difficult to rewrite such an obvious patch)

Indeed. :)



Stefan Krah
 



___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] support of the android platform

2016-04-26 Thread Xavier de Gaye 

On 04/26/2016 07:12 PM, Stefan Krah wrote:
> Xavier de Gaye  gmail.com> writes:
>> This code, or part of it, could be used to setup a buildbot and in this case
>> there would not be any conflict between the GPL v3 license and the Python
>> license, I think. I don't see how it can be combined with Python 3.
>
> For the patches on the tracker I just went by your contributor agreement.
> I didn't check the lineage of the patches. Can I assume that either you
> are re-licensing GPL-stuff written by yourself to the PSF (which is a
> perfectly valid use case of the agreement) or rewriting from scratch?


Yes, I am re-licensing GPL code to the PSF for all the patches written by me
in the issues listed on http://bugs.python.org/issue26865#msg264310.  I have
only rewritten the patches from scratch in the following issues:

issue #26849: android does not support versioning in SONAME
  (using a switch case on ac_sys_system)
issue #26854: missing header on android for the ossaudiodev module
  (actually it's difficult to rewrite such an obvious patch)
issue #26855: add platform.android_ver() for android
  (using configparser; Chi Hsuan Yen is proposing a more complete 
approach)

Fixes for those three issues can also be found in other projects porting
python3 to android, the ones that I know of are:
  * Python 3 Android at https://github.com/yan12125/python3-android, author
Chi Hsuan Yen
  * python-for-android at https://github.com/kuri65536/python-for-android,
author shimoda dragon

I also browsed rapidly issue 23496 and could not find any overlap with my
patches.

Xavier

___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] support of the android platform

2016-04-26 Thread Stefan Krah 
Xavier de Gaye  gmail.com> writes:
> This code, or part of it, could be used to setup a buildbot and in this case
> there would not be any conflict between the GPL v3 license and the Python
> license, I think. I don't see how it can be combined with Python 3.

For the patches on the tracker I just went by your contributor agreement.
I didn't check the lineage of the patches. Can I assume that either you
are re-licensing GPL-stuff written by yourself to the PSF (which is a
perfectly valid use case of the agreement) or rewriting from scratch?


Stefan Krah



___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Terminal console

2016-04-26 Thread Barry Warsaw 
On Apr 27, 2016, at 01:40 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:

>I don't think it's just Google. If I remember correctly, having a clearly
>visible and *working* unsubscribe link in the body of the email (not merely
>hidden away in the headers where non-technical users would never think to
>look) is a requirement for the CanSpam act, or whatever it was called.

BTW, the whole point of RFC 2369 headers is so that MUAs can implement a nice
big fat blinky UNSUBSCRIBE button in their UI.

-Barry
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] support of the android platform

2016-04-26 Thread Xavier de Gaye 

On 04/26/2016 04:14 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
> On 04/24/2016 12:20 AM, Xavier de Gaye wrote:
>
>> [1] https://bitbucket.org/xdegaye/pyona/src
>
> The license:
> ---
> This software is licensed under the GNU General Public License version 3 or 
later.
> ---
>
>
> Will combining your code with Python 3 be a problem?


This code, or part of it, could be used to setup a buildbot and in this case
there would not be any conflict between the GPL v3 license and the Python
license, I think. I don't see how it can be combined with Python 3.

Xavier
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] support of the android platform

2016-04-26 Thread Xavier de Gaye 

On 04/26/2016 04:02 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On 26 April 2016 at 06:25, Xavier de Gaye mailto:xdeg...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On 04/25/2016 04:53 PM, Stefan Krah wrote:
> > Eric Snow gmail.com > writes:
> >> On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 1:20 AM, Xavier de Gaye gmail.com 
>
> > wrote:
> >>> Starting with API level 21 (Android 5.0), the build of python3 with 
the
> >>> official android toolchains (that is, without resorting to external
> >
> >> How does this relate tohttp://bugs.python.org/issue23496?
> >
> > As I understand, that issue seems abandoned and the patches are
> > (despite core devs asking otherwise) against 3.4.
> >
> >
> > If Xavier is willing to do so, I think it would be best to start over
> > with a new issue that integrates his work into 3.6.
>
> I will enter a new issue that lists all the new issues and the other 
already
> existing issues that, would have they been fixed, would have allowed a
> successfull cross-build and the same test suite results as described in my
> previous post.
>
>
> Thanks for this, Xavier!
>
> Once you have that, in addition to posting the link back here, you may also 
want to ping the Mobile SIG list: 
https://www.python.org/community/sigs/current/mobile-sig/


Issue 26865 [1] lists issues that may have to be fixed in the perspective of a
future support of the android platform.

Xavier

[1] http://bugs.python.org/issue26865

___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Terminal console

2016-04-26 Thread Steven D'Aprano 
On Tue, Apr 26, 2016 at 08:45:20AM -0400, Franklin? Lee wrote:
> On Apr 26, 2016 4:02 AM, "Paul Moore"  wrote:
> >
> > On 25 April 2016 at 23:55, Franklin? Lee 
> wrote:
> > > FWIW, Gmail's policies require:
> > [...]
> > > That link is currently the only obvious way to unsubscribe.
> >
> > I'm not sure why gmail's policies should apply to this list.
> 
> They're Gmail's policies on how not to get your messages filtered by Gmail
> as spam.
> 
> I am not clear on whether they're descriptive (i.e. users will mark you as
> spam) or prescriptive (i.e. Google's algorithms will determine that you're
> spam).

I don't think it's just Google. If I remember correctly, having a 
clearly visible and *working* unsubscribe link in the body of the email 
(not merely hidden away in the headers where non-technical users would 
never think to look) is a requirement for the CanSpam act, or whatever 
it was called. 

In any case, whether it is a legal or practical requirement or not, it's 
a fairly small burden. As I see it, the only time it causes a (tiny) 
issue is if somebody accidently includes the footer from a list mail 
they received when forwarding to somebody else (or sending to the list), 
and the receiver mistakenly (or in an attempt to cause trouble) clicks 
on that link. Which is harmless.

Considering how many hundreds, thousands (hundreds of thousands? 
sometimes it feels like that *wink*) of emails go through this list 
alone, I don't think this is a problem that needs fixing.


-- 
Steve
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] support of the android platform

2016-04-26 Thread Ethan Furman 

On 04/24/2016 12:20 AM, Xavier de Gaye wrote:


[1] https://bitbucket.org/xdegaye/pyona/src


The license:
---
This software is licensed under the GNU General Public License version 3 
or later.

---


Will combining your code with Python 3 be a problem?

--
~Ethan~
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Terminal console

2016-04-26 Thread Barry Warsaw 
On Apr 26, 2016, at 09:02 AM, Paul Moore wrote:

>I'm not against having an easy reminder of how to unsubscribe, but the
>clickable link on every message that requests that the poster be
>unsubscribed seems like the wrong way to do it, to me...

And yet, we have it anyway!

This list turns on full personalization so the footers will all have a link to
your unsubscribe page.  As Ben pointed out, we also implement RFC 2369, which
is only an 18 year old standard.

Cheers,
-Barry
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Terminal console

2016-04-26 Thread Nick Coghlan 
On 26 April 2016 at 22:57, Zachary Ware  wrote:
>
> On Apr 26, 2016 07:45, "Franklin? Lee"  wrote:
> >
> > On Apr 26, 2016 4:02 AM, "Paul Moore"  wrote:
> > >
> > > On 25 April 2016 at 23:55, Franklin? Lee  
> > > wrote:
> > > > FWIW, Gmail's policies require:
> > > [...]
> > > > That link is currently the only obvious way to unsubscribe.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure why gmail's policies should apply to this list.
> >
> > They're Gmail's policies on how not to get your messages filtered by Gmail 
> > as spam.
> >
> > I am not clear on whether they're descriptive (i.e. users will mark you as 
> > spam) or prescriptive (i.e. Google's algorithms will determine that you're 
> > spam).
>
> I have no trouble with Gmail with several other Python lists that do not 
> include an unsubscribe link.

Indeed, Mailman inserts the appropriate List-Unsubscribe headers, so
there's no need for a link in the body of the emails (and including it
can cause problems when link scrapers hit the archives, or link
pre-fetching in a webmail client misbehaves)

Cheers,
Nick.

-- 
Nick Coghlan   |   ncogh...@gmail.com   |   Brisbane, Australia
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Terminal console

2016-04-26 Thread Zachary Ware 
On Apr 26, 2016 07:45, "Franklin? Lee" 
wrote:
>
> On Apr 26, 2016 4:02 AM, "Paul Moore"  wrote:
> >
> > On 25 April 2016 at 23:55, Franklin? Lee 
wrote:
> > > FWIW, Gmail's policies require:
> > [...]
> > > That link is currently the only obvious way to unsubscribe.
> >
> > I'm not sure why gmail's policies should apply to this list.
>
> They're Gmail's policies on how not to get your messages filtered by
Gmail as spam.
>
> I am not clear on whether they're descriptive (i.e. users will mark you
as spam) or prescriptive (i.e. Google's algorithms will determine that
you're spam).

I have no trouble with Gmail with several other Python lists that do not
include an unsubscribe link.

--
Zach
(On a phone)
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Terminal console

2016-04-26 Thread Franklin? Lee 
On Apr 26, 2016 4:02 AM, "Paul Moore"  wrote:
>
> On 25 April 2016 at 23:55, Franklin? Lee 
wrote:
> > FWIW, Gmail's policies require:
> [...]
> > That link is currently the only obvious way to unsubscribe.
>
> I'm not sure why gmail's policies should apply to this list.

They're Gmail's policies on how not to get your messages filtered by Gmail
as spam.

I am not clear on whether they're descriptive (i.e. users will mark you as
spam) or prescriptive (i.e. Google's algorithms will determine that you're
spam).
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Python-Dev] Mailing list metadata via RFC 2369 (was: Terminal console)

2016-04-26 Thread Ben Finney 
"Franklin? Lee"  writes:

> FWIW, Gmail's policies require:
> """
> A user must be able to unsubscribe from your mailing list through
> one of the following means:
>
> * A prominent link in the body of an email leading users to a page
> confirming his or her unsubscription (no input from the user, other
> than confirmation, should be required).
> * By replying to your email with an unsubscribe request.
> """
> (https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126)

GMail already has all the information needed to offer mailing list
functionality to every user.

The header of every message delivered via the mailing list has full RFC
2369 fields https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2369> which is ample
information, correctly structured for any application to provide the
functions GMail is referring to.

GMail support staff have known this for many years because RFC 2369
support has been requested for their interface over and over again.

There are reports they even make some use of that standard information
http://www.itworld.com/article/2693280/unified-communications/gmail-s--unsubscribe--tool-comes-out-of-the-weeds.html>
though as I never use GMail I can't verify that.

If not, then their refusal to follow a mature, well-implemented internet
standard is no reason for anyone else to change behaviour. It is up to
GMail to use the standard information.

-- 
 \   “Anything that we scientists can do to weaken the hold of |
  `\religion should be done and may in the end be our greatest |
_o__)  contribution to civilization.” —Steven Weinberg |
Ben Finney

___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Terminal console

2016-04-26 Thread Paul Moore 
On 25 April 2016 at 23:55, Franklin? Lee  wrote:
> FWIW, Gmail's policies require:
[...]
> That link is currently the only obvious way to unsubscribe.

I'm not sure why gmail's policies should apply to this list.

I'm not against having an easy reminder of how to unsubscribe, but the
clickable link on every message that requests that the poster be
unsubscribed seems like the wrong way to do it, to me...

Paul
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com