don't
already have one...
Where would we put it though? I sometimes wonder if there should be a 'mixins'
module to provide a one-stop shop for finding things like DictMixin and
ListMixin.
Cheers,
Nick.
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to get around the tuple-related quirks of the string mod operator, and
an enhancement to the string mod operator to deal better with iterables.
Cheers,
Nick.
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Nick Coghlan wrote:
I agree with this point actually. There should be an iterable formatting
code that looks something like %[sep]i
Then %i % (my_seq,) would be the equivalent of .join(my_seq), only
allowing it to be easily embedded inside a larger format string.
Some other examples
Nick Coghlan wrote:
Nick Coghlan wrote:
I agree with this point actually. There should be an iterable formatting
code that looks something like %[sep]i
Then %i % (my_seq,) would be the equivalent of .join(my_seq), only
allowing it to be easily embedded inside a larger format string.
Some
with is
a weakness in the string formatting for iterables.
The point about not needing parentheses for conditionals where a lot of other
languages require them is a good one - I'm sure I write print statements
nearly as often as I write conditionals.
Cheers,
Nick.
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Tony Meyer wrote:
[Nick Coghlan]
Print as statement = printing sequences nicely is a pain
What's wrong with this?
print range(10)
[0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9]
print tuple(string)
('s', 't', 'r', 'i', 'n', 'g')
This is a serious question - that's how I would expect a print
__future__ import printing to disable the
recognition of 'print' as a keyword in a particular module -- this
would provide adequate future-proofing.
Gah, sometimes I miss the most obvious of solutions. . .
Cheers,
Nick.
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tool where you have to tell it which behaviour you
want all the time (or pick one as the default, and have to remember to tell
the application when you want the other behaviour).
Cheers,
Nick.
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wherever it sees $[fmt]name or $[fmt]{name}
Cheers,
Nick.
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at compile time is the bytecode required to
create the class or function - the definition isn't actually processed until
runtime. It's easy to forget that difference (mainly because it doesn't matter
very often).
Cheers,
Nick.
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library
namespace, ... ?
from __past__ import python2
If we ever get the ast-branch finished, then keeping a copy of the final 2.x
parser around that targets the Python AST should actually be feasible, too.
Cheers,
Nick.
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:
-
Py format(Kinda cute: $p0)
'Kinda cute: Kinda cute: $p0'
-
Cheers,
Nick.
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Nick Coghlan wrote:
I found the following to be an interesting experiment:
-
from string import Template
def format(*args, **kwds):
fmt = args[0]
kwds.update((p%s % idx, arg) for idx, arg in enumerate(args))
return Template(fmt).substitute(**kwds)
I
Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Wed, 2005-09-07 at 08:55, Nick Coghlan wrote:
The leading 'p' (for 'positional') is necessary to get around the fact that
$1
is currently an illegal identifier in a Template
That should be fixable. Ideally, $1 is better than $p1.
I also looked into the idea
be an improvement on the status quo.
I also noticed that the Windows installer does *not* install
Tools/README.txt, so there isn't even a synopsis of the tools which _are_
included with the Windows installer.
Cheers,
Nick.
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will download and try out a patch to the main distribution. I'm such a
one, even though I believe my main problems with Idle lie in the Tcl/tk
toolkit (so I don't expect any application level changes to alter my opinion
much).
Regards,
Nick.
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statement is executed, rather than when the module is
compiled, but that difference is not uncommon in Python (you don't know what
half the names refer to until the top-level of the module is executed).
Cheers,
Nick.
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included!)
Cheers,
Nick.
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have caused us any
grief on the AST branch ;)
Cheers,
Nick.
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in expression contexts, and +0 on the
if/then/elif/else form (because I would like a real conditional operator).
Cheers,
Nick.
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---
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required around the
whole thing, rather than around each element in the chain:
(x if b else y if c else z)
The point being that the result of the conditional expression is exactly one
of the options included in the expression, so only one set of parentheses is
required.
Regards,
Nick.
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Nick
a decision. . .
Cheers,
Nick.
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the
archives to see if the discussion has moved on since then, as I haven't been
following c.l.p. for a good long while).
Regards,
Nick.
[1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2005-January/259556.html
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get my brain to accept it is by mentally replacing the if
with ? and the else with :).
Does it help if you think of if C else as a parameterised infix operation
for choosing between the expressions on either side?
Cheers,
Nick.
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and
prefix conditional operators without colons (above) are the main options he is
considering choosing from.
Regards,
Nick.
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Greg Ewing wrote:
Nick Coghlan wrote:
PEP 342's yield expressions can probably be used to help address that
problem,
though:
class SomeAO(ActiveObject):
def processSomeMessage(self):
msg = yield
# Do something with the message
next_msg = yield
argument to the binary operation in A.
That said, the more verbose form still felt like it had the elements out of
sequence - it was just crying out for the expression to be rewritten as a
statement.
Regards,
Nick.
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.
Even more annoying are constructs that don't gel with the rest of the
language, though.
Regards,
Nick.
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-specific system of code tagging, rather than
requiring that the project necessarily use the default style included in the
processing module (Although using a system other than the default one may
result in reduced functionality, naturally).
Cheers,
Nick.
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Guido van Rossum wrote:
Congratulations gracefully accepted.
Hurrah!
Cheers,
Nick.
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Guido van Rossum wrote:
On 9/30/05, Nick Coghlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
An approach to this area that would make sense to me is:
1. Defer PEP 350
2. Publish a simple Python module for finding and processing code tags in a
configurable fashion
3. Include a default configuration in the module
names don't match the methods normal Python syntax
actually invokes, I find it hard to see how fixing it could cause any
signficant problems.
Cheers,
Nick.
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Nick Coghlan wrote:
[A load of baloney]
Scratch everything I said in my last message - init_slotdefs() sorts the
slotdefs table correctly, so that the order it is written in the source is
irrelevant.
Travis found the real answer to his problem.
Cheers,
Nick.
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patches for PEP 342 and PEP 343 against the trunk, but ast-branch still isn't
even passing the Python 2.4 test suite, I'm wondering if it should be bumped
from the feature list again.
Cheers,
Nick.
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iterables and
iterators is one well worth considering.
Cheers,
Nick.
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---
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Guido van Rossum wrote:
On 10/4/05, Nick Coghlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I was planning on looking at your patch too, but I was waiting for an answer
from Guido about the fate of the ast-branch for Python 2.5. Given that we have
patches for PEP 342 and PEP 343 against the trunk, but ast-branch
to normal context
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need to
remember to do is to write any potentially blocking operations as yielded
lambda expressions or functional.partial invocations, rather than as direct
function calls.
Cheers,
Nick.
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Fredrik Lundh wrote:
Nick Coghlan wrote:
9. Here's a proposed native context manager for decimal.Context:
# This would be a new decimal.Context method
@contextmanager
def __with__(self):
wouldn't it be better if the ContextWrapper class (or some variation
Nick Coghlan wrote:
It ends up looking like this:
def __call__(self, value=None):
Call a generator as a coroutine
Returns the first argument supplied to StopIteration or
None if no argument was supplied.
Raises
- the only
difference is that the statement looks for a __with__ slot on the original
EXPR, rather than looking directly for an __enter__ slot.
Cheers,
Nick.
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method for
iterators. . .
Cheers,
Nick.
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is worse, because
it leaves open the nonsensical possibility of writing a __with__ method as a
generator *without* applying the contextmanager decorator, and that would just
be bizarre - if you want to get an iterable, why aren't you writing an
__iter__ method instead?
Cheers,
Nick.
--
Nick
Could one of the Sourceforge powers-that-be grant me check in access so I can
update PEP 343 directly?
Cheers,
Nick.
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---
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saying threading is easy. If I
encountered anyone who thought it was easy *in general*, then I would fear any
threaded code they wrote, because they clearly weren't thinking about the
problem hard enough ;)
Cheers,
Nick.
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Fredrik Lundh wrote:
Nick Coghlan wrote:
However, requiring a decorator to get a slot to work right looks pretty ugly
to me, too.
the whole concept might be perfectly fine on the this construct corre-
sponds to this code level, but if you immediately end up with things that
are not what
to needing locking. And if you
recreate everything in each sandbox, well, I think you've just reinvented
processes. :)
After all, there's a reason Bruce Eckel's recent post about multi-processing
attracted a fair amount of interest.
Cheers,
Nick.
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Phillip J. Eby wrote:
At 09:50 PM 10/7/2005 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
Notice how a non-coroutine callable can be yielded, and it will still
work
happily with the scheduler, because the desire to continue execution is
indicated by the ContinueIteration exception, rather than by the type
Guido van Rossum wrote:
I will, if you tell me your sourceforge username.
Sorry, forgot about that little detail ;)
Anyway, its ncoghlan, same as the gmail account.
Cheers,
Nick.
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Anyone else seeing any problems with test_cmd_line? I've got a few failures in
test_cmd_line on Kubuntu 5.10 with GCC 4.0 relating to a missing \n line
ending.
Cheers,
Nick.
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Hye-Shik Chang wrote:
On 10/8/05, Nick Coghlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Anyone else seeing any problems with test_cmd_line? I've got a few failures in
test_cmd_line on Kubuntu 5.10 with GCC 4.0 relating to a missing \n line
ending.
Same problem here. (FreeBSD 6.0 with GCC 3.4.4)
In my
, to something based subprocesses.
Cheers,
Nick.
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Guido van Rossum wrote:
On 10/8/05, Nick Coghlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So, instead of having return automatically map to raise StopIteration
inside generators, I'd like to suggest we keep it illegal to use return
inside a generator, and instead add a new attribute result to StopIteration
James Y Knight wrote:
On Oct 8, 2005, at 9:10 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
So, instead of having return automatically map to raise
StopIteration
inside generators, I'd like to suggest we keep it illegal to use
return
inside a generator
Only one issue with that: it's _not currently
Nick Coghlan wrote:
Although, if StopIteration.result was a read-only property with the above
definition, wouldn't that give us the benefit of one obvious way to return
a
value from a coroutine without imposing any runtime cost on normal use of
StopIteration to finish an iterator
?
Cheers,
Nick.
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Greg Ewing wrote:
Nick Coghlan wrote:
Sometimes I miss the obvious. There's a *much*, *much* better place to store
the return value of a generator than on the StopIteration exception that it
raises when it finishes. Just save the return value in the *generator*.
I'm not convinced
Cheers,
Nick.
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to match the put_wait and get_wait
methods above.
If people are amenable to these ideas, I should be able to work up a patch for
them this week.
Regards,
Nick.
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Donovan Baarda wrote:
On Fri, 2005-10-07 at 23:54, Nick Coghlan wrote:
[...]
The few times I have encountered anyone saying anything resembling threading
is easy, it was because the full sentence went something like threading is
easy if you use message passing and copy-on-send or release
be a SyntaxError - I believe the AST compiler actually
raises one in this situation.
Cheers,
Nick.
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---
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of the conditional
expression :)
We're-all-adults-here-ly yours,
Nick.
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, but there are a
few quirks with doing it that way).
Cheers,
Nick.
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---
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, Python threading has
its own traps for the unwary (mainly related to badly-behaved C extensions,
but they're still traps).
Cheers,
Nick.
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---
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Nick Coghlan wrote:
Neal Norwitz wrote:
There's a problem with genexp's that I think really needs to get
fixed. See http://python.org/sf/1167751 the details are below. This
code:
I agree with the bug report that the code should either raise a
SyntaxError or do the right thing.
I agree
of optional keyword arguments, rather than having to do:
def f(a, b, *args, foo=1, bar=2):
if args:
raise TypeError(f() takes exactly 2 positional arguments (%d given),
2 + len(args))
Cheers,
Nick.
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Nick Coghlan wrote:
For me, it stops when the rules for positional name binding are more
consistent across operations that bind names (although complete consistency
isn't possible, given that function calls don't unpack sequences
automatically).
Oops - forgot to delete this bit once I
, they
had come to the conclusion that if they had a global variable, they
could just stick a reference to it into a threading.local object and
instantly have safe, concurrent access to it.
Ouch. Copy, yes, reference, no. . .
Cheers,
Nick.
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:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2004-November/050068.html
Obviouly, I've changed my views over the last year or so ;)
Cheers,
Nick.
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,
Nick.
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-lookahead, could
we permit this syntax by rearanging bits of the grammer?
I griped about this a while back, and got the impression from Guido that
fixing it was possible, but it had simply never bugged anyone enough for them
to actaully get around to fixing it.
Cheers,
Nick.
--
Nick Coghlan
,
Nick.
P.S. PeriodicTimer would be a variant of threading Timer which simply replaces
the run method with:
def run():
while 1:
self.finished.wait(self.interval)
if self.finished.isSet():
break
self.function(*self.args, **self.kwds)
--
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Queue.Queue. The latter jumps through a lot of
hoops in order to be thread-safe.
This confusion is one of the reasons I have a problem with the current name of
the Queue module.
Cheers,
Nick.
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:(
__main__.wrapper object at 0x00B9E3B0
But putting the exact same descriptor in a class lets it work its magic:
Py class lazy(object):
... baz = baz
...
Py lazy.baz
Evaluating baz!
'Module attribute'
Py baz
'Module attribute'
Cheers,
Nick.
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, and I still only have read access to the CVS repository. So if one
of the SF admins could flip that last switch, that would be great :)
Regards,
Nick.
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Guido van Rossum wrote:
With Neal's help I've fixed Nick's permissions. Enjoy, Nick!
Thanks folks - it looks to be all good now.
Regards,
Nick.
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, such as the
old contextmanager? (The PEP currently says context)
- should the decorator be a builtin? (The PEP currently says yes)
- should the decorator be applied automatically to generators used to write
__with__ methods? (The PEP currently says yes)
Cheers,
Nick.
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Nick Coghlan | [EMAIL
):
print Setting attribute on instance
def delete(self):
print Deleting attribute on instance
Comments? Screams of horror?
Cheers,
Nick.
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once again, that metaclasses are the one true way to monkey with
classes ;)
Cheers,
Nick.
P.S. I think I need an email program that disables the send button after 11
pm. . .
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Guido van Rossum wrote:
On 10/16/05, Nick Coghlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I hope you reverted the status to Proposed...
I hadn't, but I've now fixed that in CVS (both in the PEP and the PEP index),
and added some text into the PEP saying why it was reverted to Draft.
On the latter: I think
for a with statement. The
old name made perfect sense if you'd been part of the PEP 340 discussion, but
was rather obscure otherwise.
Cheers,
Nick.
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---
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Steven Bethard wrote:
Nick Coghlan wrote:
Having module attribute access obey the descriptor protocol (__get__,
__set__,
__delete__) sounds like a pretty good option to me.
It would even be pretty backwards compatible, as I'd be hardpressed to think
why anyone would have a descriptor
? ;)
def show_message(msg):
win = create_window(msg)
for step in animate(win, xrange(10)): # slide down
yield step
yield Timeout(3)
for step in animate(win, xrange(10, 0, -1)): # slide up
yield step
win.destroy()
Cheers,
Nick.
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= 5: raise ValueError(value too big)
instance._x = x
def x.delete(instance):
del instance._x
Cheers,
Nick.
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,
Nick.
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:
raise RuntimeError(generator caught exception)
def suspendable_context(func):
def helper(*args, **kwds):
return SuspendableGeneratorContext(func, args, kwds)
return helper
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the __suspend__/__resume__ idea up as another case of me
getting overly enthusiastic about a complex idea without looking for simpler
solutions first. It's not like it would be the first time ;)
Cheers,
Nick.
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with it on the AST branch, and am glad it has made its way onto the
HEAD for Python 2.5.
Cheers,
Nick.
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chance of YAGNI. We need experience with the 'with' statement before
we can really identify the tools that are appropriate.
Cheers,
Nick.
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---
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is a generator or not, and including
the entire compiler header just for that seemed like overkill.
It's not a huge issue for me, but the separate header files do give better
'separation of concerns'.
Cheers,
Nick.
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providing similar module level functions in the string module that
correspond to the methods of Template objects?).
Cheers,
Nick.
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actually do the right thing.
Regards,
Nick.
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print Neither does this
So how about if type_new simply raises a TypeError if it finds a
generator-iterator function in the __context__ slot?
Regards,
Nick.
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in kwds
NAME = TYPE(NAME, ARGS, kwds)
Such that the existing 'class' statement is equivalent to:
create __metaclass__ NAME(ARGS):
BLOCK
Cheers,
Nick.
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):
self._x = value
def delete(self, value):
del self._x
(I put the metaclass after the keyword, because, unlike a function decorator,
the metaclass is invoked *before* the class is created, and because you're
only allowed one explicit metaclass)
Cheers,
Nick.
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imdicts which compare equal (same contents) may not hash equal
(different id's).
Cheers,
Nick.
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useful, though.
Cheers,
Nick.
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Josiah Carlson wrote:
Nick Coghlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think having dicts and sets automatically invoke freeze would be a
mistake,
because at least one of the following two cases would behave unexpectedly:
I'm pretty sure that the PEP was only aslomg if one would freeze
Almost there - this is the only issue I have left on my list :)
Guido van Rossum wrote:
On 10/24/05, Nick Coghlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
However, those resolutions bring up the following issues:
5 a. What exception is raised when EXPR does not have a __context__
method?
b. What
Guido van Rossum wrote:
On 10/25/05, Nick Coghlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Almost there - this is the only issue I have left on my list :)
[,,,]
Why are you so keen on TypeError? I find AttributeError totally
appropriate. I don't see symmetry with for-loops as a valuable
property here
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