Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On Thursday, May 3, 2018, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Thu, May 03, 2018 at 07:39:05AM +0200, Matěj Cepl wrote: > > > I have my doubts about IDLE though. I know, the same > > argument applies, but really, does anybody use IDLE for > > development for long time > > Yes, tons

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On 2018-05-03, 15:56 GMT, Tim Peters wrote: > IDLE isn't just for eager beginners, but also for those so old > & senile they're incapable of learning anything new ever again. As > proof, IDLE is still _my_ primary Python development environment, used > multiple times every day, and I'm so old &

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On 03.05.2018 20:11, Ryan Gonzalez wrote: On May 3, 2018 11:56:24 AM MRAB wrote: On 2018-05-03 13:24, Steve Holden wrote: On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 12:12 AM, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev > wrote:     On 03.05.2018

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On May 3, 2018 11:56:24 AM MRAB wrote: On 2018-05-03 13:24, Steve Holden wrote: On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 12:12 AM, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev > wrote: On 03.05.2018 1:01, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

Maybe the only 1 thing needs an update : some nice ui else, i'm glad python has a gui library as one interested in languages, py is just crazy (though i miss some android apps using it). in a GPL, a gui library is one of those extra goodies if you would browse the source codes, you'd see good

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On 2018-05-03 13:24, Steve Holden wrote: On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 12:12 AM, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev > wrote: On 03.05.2018 1:01, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Wed, 2 May 2018 22:54:04 +0100 Paul Moore

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

[Matěj Cepl ] > It absolutely impossible to remove Tkinter IMHO (it has been > part of stdlib since like forever and people expect it there; > its removal would be betrayal on the level of switching = to > :=), I have my doubts about IDLE though. I know, the same > argument applies,

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 12:12 AM, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev < python-dev@python.org> wrote: > On 03.05.2018 1:01, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > >> On Wed, 2 May 2018 22:54:04 +0100 >> Paul Moore wrote: >> >>> On 2 May 2018 at 22:37, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >>>

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

One other small bit... There is some precedent for retaining modules where the underlying library was known to be buggy. The dearly departed bsddb module exposed libdb 1.85 (as I recall) which had an unfixable bug. Still, bsddb supported that broken version of the library for quite awhile before

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On 3 May 2018 at 03:26, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> Will all due respect, it's sometimes unpredictable what kind of wording >> Anglo-Saxons will take as an insult, as there's lot of obsequiosity >> there that doesn't exist in other cultures. To me, "not give a damn" >> reads

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On Thu, May 03, 2018 at 07:39:05AM +0200, Matěj Cepl wrote: > I have my doubts about IDLE though. I know, the same > argument applies, but really, does anybody use IDLE for > development for long time Yes, tons of beginners use it. On the tutor and python-list mailing lists, there are plenty

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On 2018-05-02, 21:41 GMT, Guido van Rossum wrote: > So what do *you* think. Do you agree with the OP that Tkinter (and hence > IDLE) should be scrapped? It absolutely impossible to remove Tkinter IMHO (it has been part of stdlib since like forever and people expect it there; its removal would

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On Thu, May 03, 2018 at 12:01:53AM +0200, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Wed, 2 May 2018 22:54:04 +0100 > Paul Moore wrote: > > Nor do I think the tone of his message here is acceptable - regardless > > of how annoyed he is, posting insults ("no-one gives a damn") about > >

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On 5/2/2018 6:01 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Wed, 2 May 2018 22:54:04 +0100 Paul Moore wrote: His *other* email seems reasonable, and warrants a response, yes. But are we to take the suggestion made here (to drop tkinter) seriously, based on the fact that there's a

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On 5/2/2018 4:51 PM, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: As https://bugs.python.org/issue33257 As I report there, the 'crasher' does not crash on my Win 10 with either installed 3.7 or built 3.8. https://bugs.python.org/issue33316 showed, nothing about tkinter Tkinter is broken, for both

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On 2018-05-02 22:56, Josh Stephens wrote: Hello list,   If I may voice my opinion I would like to say that I just built an application using Tkinter using python3. I used it because it was included in python by default and I didn't have to using something like PyQT or any other framework that

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

I still use it a bit, in simple contexts to be sure, but I do find it useful. Others think so as well. I think TkAgg is probably the most commonly used backend in Matplotlib. I wrote a single Matplotlib-using program which plots columns from CSV files. I use it almost daily with no problems.

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On 03.05.2018 1:01, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Wed, 2 May 2018 22:54:04 +0100 Paul Moore wrote: On 2 May 2018 at 22:37, Antoine Pitrou wrote: To elaborate a bit: the OP, while angry, produced both a detailed analysis *and* a PR. It's normal to be

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

Guido van Rossum wrote: So what do *you* think. Do you agree with the OP that Tkinter (and hence IDLE) should be scrapped? I don't have an opinion on that, but the issue of whether tkinter should be in the stdlib has been debated at least once before, and I took the OP as saying "maybe we

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

> On 2 May 2018, at 22:51, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev > wrote: > > As https://bugs.python.org/issue33257 and https://bugs.python.org/issue33316 > showed, Tkinter is broken, for both Py2 and Py3, with both threaded and > non-threaded Tcl, since 2002 at least, and

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On Wed, 2 May 2018 22:54:04 +0100 Paul Moore wrote: > On 2 May 2018 at 22:37, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > To elaborate a bit: the OP, while angry, produced both a detailed > > analysis *and* a PR. It's normal to be angry when an advertised > > feature

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

Hello list,   If I may voice my opinion I would like to say that I just built an application using Tkinter using python3. I used it because it was included in python by default and I didn't have to using something like PyQT or any other framework that was heavy. While I agree that the docs can

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On 2 May 2018 at 22:37, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > To elaborate a bit: the OP, while angry, produced both a detailed > analysis *and* a PR. It's normal to be angry when an advertised > feature doesn't work and it makes you lose hours of work (or, even, > forces you to a

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 5:37 PM Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Wed, 2 May 2018 23:28:22 +0200 > Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > On Wed, 02 May 2018 21:24:07 + > > Brian Curtin wrote: > > > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 16:55 Ivan Pozdeev via

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

I have no opinion about scrapping IDLE and Tkinter, but if we don't, I think his concerns deserve addressing instead of being dismissed by wielding the CoC magic wand. Regards Antoine. Le 02/05/2018 à 23:41, Guido van Rossum a écrit : > So what do *you* think. Do you agree with the OP that

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

So what do *you* think. Do you agree with the OP that Tkinter (and hence IDLE) should be scrapped? On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 2:37 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Wed, 2 May 2018 23:28:22 +0200 > Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > On Wed, 02 May 2018 21:24:07 +

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On Wed, 2 May 2018 23:28:22 +0200 Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Wed, 02 May 2018 21:24:07 + > Brian Curtin wrote: > > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 16:55 Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev < > > python-dev@python.org> wrote: > > > > > As

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On Wed, 02 May 2018 21:24:07 + Brian Curtin wrote: > On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 16:55 Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev < > python-dev@python.org> wrote: > > > As https://bugs.python.org/issue33257 and > > https://bugs.python.org/issue33316 showed, Tkinter is broken, for both > > Py2

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 16:55 Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev < python-dev@python.org> wrote: > As https://bugs.python.org/issue33257 and > https://bugs.python.org/issue33316 showed, Tkinter is broken, for both > Py2 and Py3, with both threaded and non-threaded Tcl, since 2002 at > least, and no-one

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

Wow. I guess your code was broken and now you seem really upset. Go punch a bag or something, and then propose something a little more constructive, like adding a warning to the docs. I can assure you that there are many people using apps written using Tkinter (e.g. IDLE) and there's a mailing

[Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

As https://bugs.python.org/issue33257 and https://bugs.python.org/issue33316 showed, Tkinter is broken, for both Py2 and Py3, with both threaded and non-threaded Tcl, since 2002 at least, and no-one gives a damn. This seems to be a testament that very few people are actually interested in or