[Python-Dev] PEP 479 (Change StopIteration handling inside generators) -- hopefully final text

2014-12-05 Thread Guido van Rossum
For those who haven't followed along, here's the final text of PEP 479, with a brief Acceptance section added. The basic plan hasn't changed, but there's a lot more clarifying text and discussion of a few counter-proposals. Please send suggestions for editorial improvements to p...@python.org. The

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479 (Change StopIteration handling inside generators) -- hopefully final text

2014-12-05 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 6 December 2014 at 04:42, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: For those who haven't followed along, here's the final text of PEP 479, with a brief Acceptance section added. The basic plan hasn't changed, but there's a lot more clarifying text and discussion of a few counter-proposals.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-27 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 27 November 2014 at 09:50, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: This is actually the second iteration of this bug: the original implementation *always* suppressed StopIteration. PJE caught that one before Python 2.5

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-26 Thread Isaac Schwabacher
On 11/26/14, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 26 November 2014 at 04:04, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Isaac Schwabacher ischwabac...@wisc.edu wrote: Yield can also raise

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-26 Thread Isaac Schwabacher
On 11/26/14, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 26 November 2014 at 04:04, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Isaac Schwabacher ischwabac...@wisc.edu wrote: Yield can also raise

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-26 Thread Paul Moore
On 26 November 2014 at 16:24, Isaac Schwabacher ischwabac...@wisc.edu wrote: This actually leads to a good example of why the PEP is necessary: [...] Oh! If that's the current behaviour, then it probably needs to go into the PEP as a motivating example. It's far more convincing than most of the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-26 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 8:54 AM, Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com wrote: On 26 November 2014 at 16:24, Isaac Schwabacher ischwabac...@wisc.edu wrote: This actually leads to a good example of why the PEP is necessary: [...] Oh! If that's the current behaviour, then it probably needs to go

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-26 Thread Paul Moore
On 26 November 2014 at 17:19, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: It's hard to use as an example because the behavior of contextlib is an integral part of it -- currently for me the example boils down to there is a bug in contextlib Hmm, fair point. I was assuming that the bug in

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-26 Thread Ethan Furman
On 11/26/2014 08:54 AM, Paul Moore wrote: On 26 November 2014 at 16:24, Isaac Schwabacher ischwabac...@wisc.edu wrote: This actually leads to a good example of why the PEP is necessary: [...] Oh! If that's the current behaviour, then it probably needs to go into the PEP as a motivating

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-26 Thread Guido van Rossum
Can you summarize that in a self-contained form for inclusion in the PEP? (That was a rhetorical question. :-) On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 12:17 PM, Isaac Schwabacher ischwabac...@wisc.edu wrote: On 14-11-26, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 8:54 AM, Paul Moore wrote: On 26

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-26 Thread Isaac Schwabacher
On 14-11-26, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 8:54 AM, Paul Moore wrote: On 26 November 2014 at 16:24, Isaac Schwabacher wrote: This actually leads to a good example of why the PEP is necessary: [...] Oh! If that's the current behaviour, then it probably needs to go

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-26 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 27 Nov 2014 03:58, Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com wrote: On 26 November 2014 at 17:19, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: It's hard to use as an example because the behavior of contextlib is an integral part of it -- currently for me the example boils down to there is a bug in

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-26 Thread Guido van Rossum
You can use the README here: https://github.com/Rosuav/GenStopIter On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Isaac Schwabacher ischwabac...@wisc.edu wrote: Can you summarize that in a self-contained form for inclusion in the PEP? (That was a rhetorical question. :-) Sure. Is it on GitHub? ;D

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-26 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On 27 Nov 2014 03:58, Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com wrote: On 26 November 2014 at 17:19, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: It's hard to use as an example because the behavior of contextlib is an integral

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-26 Thread Isaac Schwabacher
Can you summarize that in a self-contained form for inclusion in the PEP? (That was a rhetorical question. :-) Sure. Is it on GitHub? ;D ijs ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-26 Thread Chris Angelico
On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 8:57 AM, Isaac Schwabacher ischwabac...@wisc.edu wrote: Can you summarize that in a self-contained form for inclusion in the PEP? (That was a rhetorical question. :-) Sure. Is it on GitHub? ;D Thanks Isaac, I've incorporated your edits.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-25 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 10:22:54AM +1100, Chris Angelico wrote: My point is that doing the same errant operation on a list or a dict will give different exceptions. In the same way, calling next() on an empty iterator will raise StopIteration normally, but might raise RuntimeError instead.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-25 Thread Chris Angelico
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 2:20 AM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: I wouldn't interpret it like that. Calling next() on an empty iterator raises StopIteration. That's not a bug indicating a failure, it's the protocol working as expected. Your response to that may be to catch the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-25 Thread Chris Angelico
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Isaac Schwabacher ischwabac...@wisc.edu wrote: Yield can also raise StopIteration, if it's thrown in. The current interaction of generator.throw(StopIteration) with yield from can't be emulated under the PEP's behavior, though it's not clear that that's a

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-25 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Isaac Schwabacher ischwabac...@wisc.edu wrote: Yield can also raise StopIteration, if it's thrown in. The current interaction of generator.throw(StopIteration) with yield from can't be

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-25 Thread Isaac Schwabacher
On 11/25/14, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Chris Angelico ischwabac...@wisc.edu ros...@gmail.com') target=1ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Isaac Schwabacher python.org/~guido(javascript:main.compose('new', 't=ischwabac...@wisc.edu

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-25 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Isaac Schwabacher ischwabac...@wisc.edu wrote: On 11/25/14, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Chris Angelico ischwabac...@wisc.edu ros...@gmail.com') target=1ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Isaac

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-25 Thread Isaac Schwabacher
On 11/25/14, Chris Angelico wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 2:20 AM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: I wouldn't interpret it like that. Calling next() on an empty iterator raises StopIteration. That's not a bug indicating a failure, it's the protocol working as expected. Your

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-25 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 26 November 2014 at 04:04, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Isaac Schwabacher ischwabac...@wisc.edu wrote: Yield can also raise StopIteration, if it's thrown in. The current

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-24 Thread Alexander Belopolsky
On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: There's a new PEP proposing to change how to treat StopIteration bubbling up out of a generator frame (not caused by a return from the frame). The proposal is to replace such a StopIteration with a RuntimeError (chained

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-24 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 4:21 PM, Alexander Belopolsky alexander.belopol...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: There's a new PEP proposing to change how to treat StopIteration bubbling up out of a generator frame (not caused by a

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-23 Thread Terry Reedy
On 11/22/2014 5:23 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 8:03 AM, Ron Adam ron3...@gmail.com wrote: Making comprehensions work more like generator expressions would, IMO, imply making the same change to all for loops: having a StopIteration raised by the body of the loop quietly

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-23 Thread Ethan Furman
On 11/22/2014 08:53 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: In order to save everyone's breath, I am *accepting* the proposal of PEP 479. Excellent. Chris, thank you for your time, effort, and thoroughness in championing this PEP. -- ~Ethan~ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-23 Thread Chris Angelico
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 2:11 AM, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote: On 11/22/2014 08:53 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: In order to save everyone's breath, I am *accepting* the proposal of PEP 479. Excellent. Chris, thank you for your time, effort, and thoroughness in championing this

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-23 Thread Paul Moore
On 23 November 2014 at 15:25, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you, it's nice to have a successful one to counterbalance the failure of PEP 463. (Which, incidentally, never actually got a resolution. It's still showing up as 'Draft' status.) I think it's worth pointing out that

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-23 Thread Ethan Furman
On 11/22/2014 12:30 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: Pre-PEP 479: --- def middleware_generator(source_generator): it = source_generator() input_value = next(it) output_value = do_something_interesting(input_value) yield output_value Post-PEP 479:

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-23 Thread Ron Adam
On 11/23/2014 04:08 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: On 11/22/2014 5:23 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 8:03 AM, Ron Adam ron3...@gmail.com wrote: Making comprehensions work more like generator expressions would, IMO, imply making the same change to all for loops: having a

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-23 Thread Chris Angelico
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 5:28 AM, Ron Adam ron3...@gmail.com wrote: With the passage of the PEP, it will change what is different about them once it's in full effect. The stop hack won't work in both, and you may get a RuntimeError in generator expressions where you would get StopIteration in

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-23 Thread Ron Adam
On 11/23/2014 04:15 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 5:28 AM, Ron Adamron3...@gmail.com wrote: With the passage of the PEP, it will change what is different about them once it's in full effect. The stop hack won't work in both, and you may get a RuntimeError in generator

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-23 Thread Chris Angelico
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Ron Adam ron3...@gmail.com wrote: The stop hack won't work in either (currently it does work in genexps), but you'd get a different exception type if you attempt it. This is correct. It's broadly similar to this distinction: {1:2,3:4}[50] Traceback (most

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-23 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 08:17:00AM -0800, Ethan Furman wrote: While I am in favor of PEP 479, and I have to agree with Raymond that this isn't pretty. Currently, next() accepts an argument of what to return if the iterator is empty. Can we enhance that in some way so that the overall

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-22 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 22 Nov 2014 02:51, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: On Fri, 21 Nov 2014 05:47:58 -0800 Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote: Another issue is that it breaks the way I and others have taught for years that generators are a kind of iterator (an object implementing

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-22 Thread Ron Adam
On 11/22/2014 08:31 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 22 Nov 2014 02:51, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net mailto:solip...@pitrou.net wrote: On Fri, 21 Nov 2014 05:47:58 -0800 Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com mailto:raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote: Another issue is that

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-22 Thread Ethan Furman
On 11/22/2014 06:31 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: A particularly relevant variant of the idiom is the approach of writing __iter__ directly as a generator, rather than creating a separate custom iterator class. In that context, the similarities between the __iter__ implementation and the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-22 Thread Chris Angelico
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Ron Adam ron3...@gmail.com wrote: OPTION 1: Make comprehensions act more like generator expressions. It would mean a while loop in the object creation point is converted to a for loop. (or something equivalent.) Then both a comprehension and a generator

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-22 Thread Raymond Hettinger
On Nov 22, 2014, at 6:31 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: I'm definitely coming around to the point of view that, even if we wouldn't design it the way it currently works given a blank slate, the alternative design doesn't provide sufficient benefit to justify the cost of

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-22 Thread Terry Reedy
On 11/22/2014 2:49 PM, Ron Adam wrote: On 11/22/2014 08:31 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: I'm definitely coming around to the point of view that, even if we wouldn't design it the way it currently works given a blank slate, the alternative design doesn't provide sufficient benefit to justify the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-22 Thread Ron Adam
On 11/22/2014 02:16 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 6:49 AM, Ron Adamron3...@gmail.com wrote: OPTION 1: Make comprehensions act more like generator expressions. It would mean a while loop in the object creation point is converted to a for loop. (or something equivalent.)

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-22 Thread Ron Adam
On 11/22/2014 03:01 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: Then both a comprehension and a generator expressions can be viewed as defining iterators, A comprehension is not an iterator. The above would make a list or set comprehension the same as feeding a genexp to list() or set(). Correct, but we

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-22 Thread Chris Angelico
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 8:03 AM, Ron Adam ron3...@gmail.com wrote: Making comprehensions work more like generator expressions would, IMO, imply making the same change to all for loops: having a StopIteration raised by the body of the loop quietly terminate the loop. I'm not suggesting

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-22 Thread Chris Angelico
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 7:30 AM, Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote: Legitimate Use Cases for Raising StopIteration in a Generator In a producer/consumer generator chain, the input generator signals it is done by

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-22 Thread Ron Adam
On 11/22/2014 04:23 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 8:03 AM, Ron Adamron3...@gmail.com wrote: Making comprehensions work more like generator expressions would, IMO, imply making the same change to all for loops: having a StopIteration raised by the body of the loop quietly

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-22 Thread Chris Angelico
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Ron Adam ron3...@gmail.com wrote: Se we have these... Tuple Comprehension (...) List Comprehension [...] Dict Comprehension {...} Colon make's it different from sets. Set Comprehension {...} I don't think there is any other way to

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-22 Thread Ron Adam
On 11/22/2014 06:20 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Ron Adamron3...@gmail.com wrote: Se we have these... Tuple Comprehension (...) List Comprehension [...] Dict Comprehension {...} Colon make's it different from sets. Set Comprehension

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-22 Thread Chris Angelico
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Ron Adam ron3...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/22/2014 06:20 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: Hmmm, there's no such thing as tuple comprehensions. Just didn't think it through quite well enough. But you are correct, that would be a generator expression. One less case

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-22 Thread Raymond Hettinger
On Nov 22, 2014, at 2:45 PM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: Does your middleware_generator work with just a single element, yielding either one output value or none? I apologize if I didn't make the point clearly. The middleware example was just simple outline of calling next(),

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-22 Thread Chris Angelico
On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 12:11 PM, Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote: The worry is that your proposal intentionally breaks that code which is currently bug free, clean, fast, stable, and relying on a part of the API that has been guaranteed and documented from day one. (I'd

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-22 Thread Ethan Furman
On 11/22/2014 05:11 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: On Nov 22, 2014, at 2:45 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: Does your middleware_generator work with just a single element, yielding either one output value or none? I apologize if I didn't make the point clearly. The middleware example was just

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-22 Thread Ron Adam
On 11/22/2014 07:06 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Ron Adamron3...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/22/2014 06:20 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: Hmmm, there's no such thing as tuple comprehensions. Just didn't think it through quite well enough. But you are correct, that

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-22 Thread Guido van Rossum
In order to save everyone's breath, I am *accepting* the proposal of PEP 479. The transition plan is: - from __future__ import generator_stop in 3.5, and a silent deprecation if StopIteration is allowed to bubble out of a generator (i.e. no warning is printed unless you explicitly turn it on) -

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-21 Thread Raymond Hettinger
On Nov 19, 2014, at 12:10 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: There's a new PEP proposing to change how to treat StopIteration bubbling up out of a generator frame (not caused by a return from the frame). The proposal is to replace such a StopIteration with a RuntimeError

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-21 Thread Chris Angelico
On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 12:47 AM, Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote: Also, the proposal breaks a reasonably useful pattern of calling next(subiterator) inside a generator and letting the generator terminate when the data stream ends. Here is an example that I have taught for

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-21 Thread Paul Moore
On 21 November 2014 13:53, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 12:47 AM, Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote: Also, the proposal breaks a reasonably useful pattern of calling next(subiterator) inside a generator and letting the generator terminate

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-21 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 12:53:41AM +1100, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 12:47 AM, Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote: Also, the proposal breaks a reasonably useful pattern of calling next(subiterator) inside a generator and letting the generator terminate

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-21 Thread Chris Angelico
On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 2:58 AM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: Since zip() is documented as halting on the shorter argument, it can't raise an exception. So what other options are there apart from silently consuming the value? Sure, it's documented as doing that. But imagine

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-21 Thread Paul Moore
On 21 November 2014 15:58, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: def izip(iterable1, iterable2): it1 = iter(iterable1) it2 = iter(iterable2) while True: v1 = next(it1) v2 = next(it2) yield v1, v2 Is it obvious to

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-21 Thread Ethan Furman
On 11/21/2014 05:47 AM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: Also, the proposal breaks a reasonably useful pattern of calling next(subiterator) inside a generator and letting the generator terminate when the data stream ends. Here is an example that I have taught for years: def [...]

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-21 Thread Donald Stufft
On Nov 21, 2014, at 11:31 AM, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote: On 11/21/2014 05:47 AM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: Also, the proposal breaks a reasonably useful pattern of calling next(subiterator) inside a generator and letting the generator terminate when the data stream ends.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-21 Thread Chris Angelico
On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 3:37 AM, Donald Stufft don...@stufft.io wrote: I don’t have an opinion on whether it’s enough of a big deal to actually change it, but I do find wrapping it with a try: except block and returning easier to understand. If you showed me the current code unless I really

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-21 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Fri, 21 Nov 2014 05:47:58 -0800 Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote: Another issue is that it breaks the way I and others have taught for years that generators are a kind of iterator (an object implementing the iterator protocol) and that a primary motivation for

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-21 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 11:36:54AM -0800, Guido van Rossum wrote: [...] That said, I think for most people the change won't matter, some people will have to apply one of a few simple fixes, and a rare few will have to rewrite their code in a non-trivial way (sometimes this will affect clever

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-21 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 8:47 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: On Fri, 21 Nov 2014 05:47:58 -0800 Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote: Another issue is that it breaks the way I and others have taught for years that generators are a kind of iterator (an object

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-21 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 9:18 AM, Steven D'Aprano st...@pearwood.info wrote: I fear that there is one specific corner case that will be impossible to deal with in a backwards-compatible way supporting both Python 2 and 3 in one code base: the use of `return value` in a generator. In Python

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-20 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 20 November 2014 06:48, MRAB pyt...@mrabarnett.plus.com wrote: On 2014-11-19 20:10, Guido van Rossum wrote: There's a new PEP proposing to change how to treat StopIteration bubbling up out of a generator frame (not caused by a return from the frame). The proposal is to replace such a

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-20 Thread Nick Coghlan
On 20 November 2014 06:15, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: On Wed, Nov 19, 2014, at 15:10, Guido van Rossum wrote: There's a new PEP proposing to change how to treat StopIteration bubbling up out of a generator frame (not caused by a return from the frame). The proposal is to

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-20 Thread Guido van Rossum
I've made some updates to the PEP: - added 19-Nov-2014 to Post-History - removed implicitly-raised from the abstract - changed the __future__ thing to generator_return - added a clarifying paragraph that Chris added to his own draft - added a link to http://bugs.python.org/issue22906 which has a

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-20 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 11:36:54 -0800 Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: I've made some updates to the PEP: - added 19-Nov-2014 to Post-History - removed implicitly-raised from the abstract - changed the __future__ thing to generator_return To me generator_return sounds like the addition

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-20 Thread Serhiy Storchaka
On 20.11.14 21:58, Antoine Pitrou wrote: To me generator_return sounds like the addition to generator syntax allowing for return statements (which was done as part of the yield from PEP). How about generate_escape? Or may be generator_stop_iteration?

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-20 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Serhiy Storchaka storch...@gmail.com wrote: On 20.11.14 21:58, Antoine Pitrou wrote: To me generator_return sounds like the addition to generator syntax allowing for return statements (which was done as part of the yield from PEP). How about generate_escape?

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-20 Thread Terry Reedy
On 11/20/2014 5:04 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Serhiy Storchaka storch...@gmail.com mailto:storch...@gmail.com wrote: On 20.11.14 21:58, Antoine Pitrou wrote: To me generator_return sounds like the addition to generator syntax

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-20 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 14:04:24 -0800 Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Serhiy Storchaka storch...@gmail.com wrote: On 20.11.14 21:58, Antoine Pitrou wrote: To me generator_return sounds like the addition to generator syntax allowing for return

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-20 Thread Terry Reedy
On 11/20/2014 2:36 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: There's still a lively discussion on python-ideas; Steven D'Aprano has dug up quite a bit of evidence that StopIteration is used quite a bit in ways that will break under the new behavior, and there also seems to be quite a bit of third-party

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-20 Thread Chris Angelico
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 6:36 AM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: It would also be useful if we could extend the PEP with some examples of the various categories of fixes that can be applied easily, e.g. a few examples of raise StopIteration directly in a generator that can be replaced

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-20 Thread Chris Angelico
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Serhiy Storchaka storch...@gmail.com wrote: On 20.11.14 21:58, Antoine Pitrou wrote: To me generator_return sounds like the addition to generator syntax allowing for return statements

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-20 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 14:04:24 -0800 Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Serhiy Storchaka storch...@gmail.com wrote: On 20.11.14 21:58, Antoine Pitrou wrote: To me

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-20 Thread Chris Angelico
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 6:36 AM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: It would also be useful if we could extend the PEP with some examples of the various categories of fixes that can be applied easily, e.g. a few

[Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-19 Thread Guido van Rossum
There's a new PEP proposing to change how to treat StopIteration bubbling up out of a generator frame (not caused by a return from the frame). The proposal is to replace such a StopIteration with a RuntimeError (chained to the original StopIteration), so that only *returning* from a generator (or

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-19 Thread Benjamin Peterson
On Wed, Nov 19, 2014, at 15:10, Guido van Rossum wrote: There's a new PEP proposing to change how to treat StopIteration bubbling up out of a generator frame (not caused by a return from the frame). The proposal is to replace such a StopIteration with a RuntimeError (chained to the original

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-19 Thread MRAB
On 2014-11-19 20:10, Guido van Rossum wrote: There's a new PEP proposing to change how to treat StopIteration bubbling up out of a generator frame (not caused by a return from the frame). The proposal is to replace such a StopIteration with a RuntimeError (chained to the original StopIteration),

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 479: Change StopIteration handling inside generators

2014-11-19 Thread Chris Angelico
On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 7:48 AM, MRAB pyt...@mrabarnett.plus.com wrote: The PEP says any generator that depends on an implicitly-raised StopIteration to terminate it will have to be rewritten to either catch that exception or use a for-loop Shouldn't that be ... explicitly-raised ..., because