Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 2:53 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > 08.05.18 19:10, Ethan Furman пише: >>> >>> X.Y+1: added a deprecation warning. Many users need to support only two >>> recent versions and can move to using the >>> replacement now. >> >> >> I'm curious how you arrived

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

08.05.18 19:10, Ethan Furman пише: X.Y+1: added a deprecation warning. Many users need to support only two recent versions and can move to using the replacement now. I'm curious how you arrived at this conclusion?  I know I've only worked at two different Python-using companies, but neither

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

04.05.18 22:08, Matthias Bussonnier пише: Maybe to push people forward, but from experience it is hard to predict future, so saying when it _will_ be remove is hard. Right. But the data of removing is usually specified when the code for removing already is written, or even merged in the next

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

On Tue, May 08, 2018 at 03:20:50PM +0200, Stéphane Blondon wrote: > I wonder if it would be interesting to have a package available by > pypi.org which would provide the removed features. [...] > Cons: > - it pushes the question to how many times the previous behavior should > be maintained from

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

08.05.18 18:51, Joni Orponen пише: If one can import from the future can one can also import from the past? One can move removed feature to a third-party module and import them from it. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

On 05/04/2018 11:48 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: 04.05.18 20:57, Matthias Bussonnier пише: But when I hit a DeprecationWarning message there is one crucial piece of information missing most of the time: Since which version number it's deprecated (and sometime since when the replacement is

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 3:20 PM, Stéphane Blondon wrote: > Le 02/05/2018 à 11:11, Victor Stinner a écrit : > > * Communicate on python-dev, Twitter, Python Insider blog, etc. > > * Collaborate with major Python projects to help them to migrate the > alternative > > I

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

Le 02/05/2018 à 11:11, Victor Stinner a écrit : > * Communicate on python-dev, Twitter, Python Insider blog, etc. > * Collaborate with major Python projects to help them to migrate the > alternative I wonder if it would be interesting to have a package available by pypi.org which would provide

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

On 5 May 2018 at 07:59, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 5/2/2018 5:11 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: > > As a follow-up to the "[Python-Dev] (Looking for) A Retrospective on >> the Move to Python 3" thread, I will like to clarify how a feature >> should be removed from Python. >> > > Would

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 15:24 To: Serhiy Storchaka Cc: python-dev Subject: Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature 2018-05-04 20:48 GMT+02:00 Serhiy Storchaka <storch...@gmail.com>: > I think the information about since which version number it will be removed > is more us

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

On 5/4/2018 6:18 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: 2018-05-04 23:59 GMT+02:00 Terry Reedy : Would it be possible (and sensible) to use the 2to3 machinery to produce 36to37.py, etc., to do mechanical replacements when possible and flag other things when necessary? I suggest you to

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

2018-05-04 20:48 GMT+02:00 Serhiy Storchaka : > I think the information about since which version number it will be removed > is more useful. About deprecation, there is the funny story of bytes filenames on Windows. I deprecated this feature in Windows 3.3 since it was

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

2018-05-04 23:59 GMT+02:00 Terry Reedy : > Would it be possible (and sensible) to use the 2to3 machinery to produce > 36to37.py, etc., to do mechanical replacements when possible and flag other > things when necessary? I suggest you to watch Daniele Esposti's talk "Evolution or

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

On 5/2/2018 5:11 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: As a follow-up to the "[Python-Dev] (Looking for) A Retrospective on the Move to Python 3" thread, I will like to clarify how a feature should be removed from Python. Would it be possible (and sensible) to use the 2to3 machinery to produce

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

On Fri, 4 May 2018 at 12:09 Matthias Bussonnier < bussonniermatth...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, 4 May 2018 at 11:49, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > >> 04.05.18 20:57, Matthias Bussonnier пише: >> > But when I hit a DeprecationWarning message there is one crucial piece >> of >> >

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

On Fri, 4 May 2018 at 11:49, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > 04.05.18 20:57, Matthias Bussonnier пише: > > But when I hit a DeprecationWarning message there is one crucial piece of > > information missing most of the time: Since which version number it's > > deprecated > > (and

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

No, the reason they're hidden by default is that for most users they're not actionable most of the time. On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 11:55 AM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: > On Fri, May 4, 2018, 11:50 Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > >> >> Ideally any deprecated feature

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

On Fri, May 4, 2018, 11:50 Serhiy Storchaka wrote: > > Ideally any deprecated feature should have a replacement, and this > replacement should be available in at least one version before adding > the deprecation warning. > > X.Y: added a replacement > > X.Y+1: added a

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

04.05.18 20:57, Matthias Bussonnier пише: But when I hit a DeprecationWarning message there is one crucial piece of information missing most of the time: Since which version number it's deprecated (and sometime since when the replacement is available could be good if overlap between

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

I would like to take a step back, I think that for removal of feature you need to make sure that the "old way" is not common enough. I think that in many context, users of Python see DeprecationWarnings as a stick. A deprecation warning means you'll have to do some work. A pep or a document that

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

04.05.18 16:14, Steven D'Aprano пише: Have there been many features removed since 3.1? I know there were some features removed in 3.0, like callable(), which were later put back in, but I can't think of anythin removed since then. If there were, the pace of it is pretty slow. Read "What's New"

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

On Fri, May 04, 2018 at 12:56:57PM +0200, Victor Stinner wrote: > Sorry, when I wrote "Python 4" I mean "the new Python release which > introduces a lot of backward incompatible changes and will annoy > everyone". It can be Python 3.9 or 3.10, or whatever version > (including 4.3 if you want) :-)

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

2018-05-02 19:24 GMT+02:00 Brett Cannon : > On Wed, 2 May 2018 at 02:12 Victor Stinner wrote: >> Does it mean that the Python 3 release following Python 2 end-of-life >> (2020) will be our next feared "Python 4"? Are we going to remove all >> deprecated

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

On Thu, 3 May 2018 at 12:01 Facundo Batista wrote: > 2018-05-02 14:24 GMT-03:00 Brett Cannon : > > >> Maybe we should create a tool to list features scheduled for removal, > >> and open a discussion to check each removal? > > > > I don't know if a tool

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

2018-05-02 14:24 GMT-03:00 Brett Cannon : >> Maybe we should create a tool to list features scheduled for removal, >> and open a discussion to check each removal? > > I don't know if a tool is necessary. We could have a meta issue or text file > somewhere to track what's to be

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

On Wed, 2 May 2018 at 02:12 Victor Stinner wrote: > Hi, > > As a follow-up to the "[Python-Dev] (Looking for) A Retrospective on > the Move to Python 3" thread, I will like to clarify how a feature > should be removed from Python. > > We have multiple tools: > > * Emit a

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

2018-05-02 11:17 GMT+02:00 Antoine Pitrou : > It's at least possible with gcc, clang and MSVC: > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/295120/c-mark-as-deprecated/295229#295229 > > You can even add a deprecation message. Aha, I opened an issue:

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

On Wed, 2 May 2018 11:11:16 +0200 Victor Stinner wrote: > > Removing a feature from the C API is more complex, since there is no > portable way to emit a deprecation warning at compilation. There is > Py_DEPRECATED() which seems to only be available on GCC (3.1 and > newer).

[Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

Hi, As a follow-up to the "[Python-Dev] (Looking for) A Retrospective on the Move to Python 3" thread, I will like to clarify how a feature should be removed from Python. We have multiple tools: * Emit a PendingDeprecationWarning warning at runtime for *slow* deprecation (remove a feature in at