[Python-Dev] Python for new users

[Nick Efford]

In the 'PEP453 ready for pronouncement' thread, Donald said


Because reality is that new users are still likely to be using Python 2.7.
Python 3 is just now starting to be really usable, however there's a huge
corpus of existing tutorials, course work, books etc for Python 2.7. As
Python 3 becomes more usable that existing corpus of material will be
ported over to Python 3 but in the interim there is still a pretty large
hurdle for new users to get over.


And Guido replied


Based on my day-to-day experience this is still very true. (And yes, I'm
slowly turning the tide. But it will take a long time and I am committed to
giving users the choice.)


Widely-used and linked web resources tend to persist for a very
long time, so we shouldn't use the prevalence of Python 2 resources
as a reason for excessive caution.  The key question is how much
good material is available based on Python 3 - and this has improved
significantly over the past couple of years.  The classic How to
Think Like a Computer Scientist has an excellent Python 3 version
available at http://interactivepython.org, for example.

Things are changing with print media, too.  Pragmatic Programmers are
about to publish the 2nd edition of Practical Programming, based
on Python 3.  Most of the major academic publishers have released
Python 3 books in the last 12 months.  The tide is definitely
turning, perhaps has already turned.

Encouraging the continued use of 2.7 for existing programmers is
entirely justifiable, but for *newcomers* to programming I think it
is now much harder to justify.  A stronger case could have been made
a couple of years ago, when many important packages were not yet
available for Python 3, but things have changed.  Even big frameworks
like Django are now usable with Python 3.  If we aren't yet past the
point where package availability shouldn't be regarded as an adoption
barrier by beginners, we are surely very close.

I've been teaching Python as a first language to university students
for many years now, initially with Python 2 and for the last few
years with Python 3.  In my experience, they encounter fewer problems
with Python 3 (just as Guido intended, no doubt :)  The one stumbling
block in the past has been package availability for project work,
but I don't expect that to a problem this year.  All of the web and
GUI development work that they'll be doing with me, for example,
will be done entirely in Python 3.


Nick
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

[Python-Dev] Python for new users

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Nick Efford writes:

  Widely-used and linked web resources tend to persist for a very
  long time, so we shouldn't use the prevalence of Python 2 resources
  as a reason for excessive caution.  The key question is how much
  good material is available based on Python 3 - and this has improved
  significantly over the past couple of years.

No, it really isn't, at least it's not more key than some other
questions.  Educators like you, and like me, who are in a position to
teach pretty much what we want are somewhat limited by that (but it's
really not that hard to take your favorite Python 2 tutorial and port
it to Python 3) will certainly consider that the key question -- we
can't spend all our time on one class.

But there's another kind of educator, the consultant who goes into a
company (or perhaps comes from their training department) who will
need to teach the gory details that differ because they matter to the
applications the trainees will be maintaining and extending.

And of course self-taught programmers are likely to use something
time-tested and recommended by their peers.

I agree that the prevalence of Python 2 materials *per se* is not a
reason for *excessive* caution, but I suspect if you look closely
you'll discover that new ones are being produced and old ones revised
and enhanced.  I'll personally be interested to see what happens in
the next revision of *Python Essential Reference* for example.  (And
so will Nori:
http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/media/Nori-swears-by-Python-Essential-Reference.jpg)

  Encouraging the continued use of 2.7 for existing programmers is
  entirely justifiable,

I would disagree.  Programmers should not be discouraged from using
any version of Python that is needed for compatibility with existing
practice, but where possible with reasonable effort, the most recent
version of Python 3 should be encouraged.

___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com