The consensus is to require IEEE 754 to build CPython, but not require
it in the Python language specification.
Updates (changed merged in bpo-46656):
* Building Python 3.11 now requires a C11 compiler without optional
C11 features. I wrote it in What's New in Python 3.11 and the PEP 7.
* Buildin
On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 10:20 PM Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 08, 2022 at 05:48:46PM -0800, Gregory P. Smith wrote:
> > On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 2:41 PM Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>
> > > If the answer to those questions are Yes, that rules out using Unums,
> > > posits, sigmoid numbers etc a
I think you skimmed over "A floating point expert can probably look at this ...
"
I remember a time when I just assumed more bits was better, and a later time
when I figured smaller was better, and a still later time when I wanted to
match the published requirements for bitsize. So that was se
On 2/8/2022 9:54 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Regarding your second point, about domain-specific tasks, I don't
understand. If your domain-specific task doesn't need to use floats,
just don't use floats. There's surely no need to invent a whole new
language for some task because your app only needs
On Tue, Feb 08, 2022 at 05:48:46PM -0800, Gregory P. Smith wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 2:41 PM Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> > If the answer to those questions are Yes, that rules out using Unums,
> > posits, sigmoid numbers etc as the builtin float. (The terminology is a
> > bit vague, sorry.) Do
On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 2:41 PM Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 07, 2022 at 06:23:52PM +, Mark Dickinson wrote:
>
> > - Should we require IEEE 754 floating-point for
> CPython-the-implementation?
> > - Should we require IEEE 754 floating-point for Python-the-language?
>
> If the answer to
On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 2:25 PM Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 07, 2022 at 05:35:17PM -0800, Gregory P. Smith wrote:
>
> > CPython: yes. we use a double.
> > Python the language: no. (float is single precision on many micropython
> > platforms as it saves precious ram and performance, plus
On Tue, 08 Feb 2022 01:12:22 -
"Jim J. Jewett" wrote:
> - Should we require the presence of NaNs in order for CPython to build?
> - Should we require IEEE 754 floating-point for CPython-the-implementation?
> - Should we require IEEE 754 floating-point for Python-the-language?
>
> I don't have
On Mon, Feb 07, 2022 at 06:23:52PM +, Mark Dickinson wrote:
> - Should we require IEEE 754 floating-point for CPython-the-implementation?
> - Should we require IEEE 754 floating-point for Python-the-language?
If the answer to those questions are Yes, that rules out using Unums,
posits, sigmo
On Mon, Feb 07, 2022 at 05:35:17PM -0800, Gregory P. Smith wrote:
> CPython: yes. we use a double.
> Python the language: no. (float is single precision on many micropython
> platforms as it saves precious ram and performance, plus microcontroller
> fpu hardware like an M4 is usually single prec
On Tue, Feb 08, 2022 at 12:44:46PM +, Steve Dower wrote:
> Agreed. CPython should be specific, Python should be as vague as
> possible. Otherwise, we would prevent _by specification_ using Python as
> a scripting language for things where floats may not even be relevant.
I don't think that
On 2/8/2022 1:35 AM, Gregory P. Smith wrote:
While we're at it are 64 bit floats required for either cPython or
Python the language?
CPython: yes. we use a double.
Python the language: no. (float is single precision on many micropython
platforms as it saves precious ram and performa
On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 4:52 PM Christopher Barker
wrote:
> From the perspective of some that writes a lot of computational code:
>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 10:25 AM Mark Dickinson wrote:
>
>> - Should we require the presence of NaNs in order for CPython to build?
>> - Should we require IEEE 754
- Should we require the presence of NaNs in order for CPython to build?
- Should we require IEEE 754 floating-point for CPython-the-implementation?
- Should we require IEEE 754 floating-point for Python-the-language?
I don't have strong opinions on the first two, but for the language definition,
>From the perspective of some that writes a lot of computational code:
On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 10:25 AM Mark Dickinson wrote:
> - Should we require the presence of NaNs in order for CPython to build?
> - Should we require IEEE 754 floating-point for CPython-the-implementation?
>
Yes, and yes, to
On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 12:19 AM Brett Cannon wrote:
> Do we have a buildbot that has a CPU or OS that can't handle IEEE-754? What
> are the chances we will get one? If the answers are "none" and "slim", then
> it seems reasonable to require NaN and IEEE-754.
All CPU architectures of current bui
On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 12:31 PM Gregory P. Smith wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 11:06 AM Victor Stinner
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>> Aha, good, you posted an email to python-dev, good :-) Last days, I
>> was trying to collect more data about this topic, especially find
>> platforms which *d
On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 11:02 AM Victor Stinner wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>
> Aha, good, you posted an email to python-dev, good :-) Last days, I
> was trying to collect more data about this topic, especially find
> platforms which *don't* support IEEE 754, before posting to
> python-dev.
>
> Nowadays, ou
On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 11:06 AM Victor Stinner wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>
> Aha, good, you posted an email to python-dev, good :-) Last days, I
> was trying to collect more data about this topic, especially find
> platforms which *don't* support IEEE 754, before posting to
> python-dev.
>
> Nowadays, ou
Hi Mark,
Aha, good, you posted an email to python-dev, good :-) Last days, I
was trying to collect more data about this topic, especially find
platforms which *don't* support IEEE 754, before posting to
python-dev.
Nowadays, outside museums, it's hard to find computers which don't
implement IEEE
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