Re: [Python-Dev] Fwd: Re: [Python-3000] Removing functions from the operator module

2007-03-11 Thread Armin Rigo
Hi Collin, On Wed, Mar 07, 2007 at 11:53:45PM -0600, Collin Winter wrote: bool() and abs() aren't syntax, so I would never look in operator. abs() is not syntax but bool() is part of every syntactic construction that takes a truth value argument (if, while, and, ...) A bientot, Armin

[Python-Dev] pydoc II

2007-03-11 Thread Laurent Gautier
Hi, There was a thread some weeks ago about work on pydoc, with the admitted aim of proposing something as an upgrade to the current pydoc. We had a number of suggestions, on this very list or privately, and we looked into having something that would not only retain the capabilities of the

Re: [Python-Dev] pydoc II

2007-03-11 Thread Gustavo Carneiro
On 3/11/07, Laurent Gautier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:[...] A prototype is being worked on, and I have been looking at code and/or functionalities in pydoc, epydoc, pydoctor, and ipython (for the interactive console), and there a lot of nice things in all these efforts. The name of the game is

Re: [Python-Dev] pydoc II

2007-03-11 Thread Laurent Gautier
2007/3/11, Gustavo Carneiro [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 3/11/07, Laurent Gautier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] A prototype is being worked on, and I have been looking at code and/or functionalities in pydoc, epydoc, pydoctor, and ipython (for the interactive console), and there a lot of nice

Re: [Python-Dev] pydoc II

2007-03-11 Thread Terry Reedy
Gustavo Carneiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Most importantly, we also need the reserve: ability to attach external | documentation to modules/packages without increasing their size. Perhaps use .pd for the extension tjr

Re: [Python-Dev] datetime module enhancements

2007-03-11 Thread Tony Nelson
At 5:45 PM +1300 3/11/07, Greg Ewing wrote: Jon Ribbens wrote: What do you feel next Tuesday plus 12 hours means? ;-) I would say it's meaningless. My feeling is that subtracting two dates should give an integer number of days, and that is all you should be allowed to add to a date. Apple's

Re: [Python-Dev] datetime module enhancements

2007-03-11 Thread Oleg Broytmann
On Sun, Mar 11, 2007 at 11:02:39AM -0500, Tony Nelson wrote: Apple's old MacOS had a very flexible LongDateRecord and date utilities. Nearly anything one could do to a date had a useful meaning. Perhaps Python should be different, but I've found Apple's date calculations and date parsing to

Re: [Python-Dev] datetime module enhancements

2007-03-11 Thread Steven Bethard
On 3/10/07, Jon Ribbens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see you snipped without response my request to back up your claim that assuming that a date() is a datetime() with a time of midnight will clearly break that logic. Am I to assume you cannot back it up? I was trying to minimize the extent of

Re: [Python-Dev] datetime module enhancements

2007-03-11 Thread Christian Heimes
Jon Ribbens schrieb: I see you snipped without response my request to back up your claim that assuming that a date() is a datetime() with a time of midnight will clearly break that logic. I've another idea. Date and datetime objects are compared by date. The date object for a given date is

[Python-Dev] Backports of standard library modules

2007-03-11 Thread Patrick Maupin
Please forgive me if this has already been discussed -- I only recently started paying any attention to this list. Many versions of python include new standard library modules that could (or often do already) work fine with previous versions. Some of the modules are brand-new, written explicitly

Re: [Python-Dev] datetime module enhancements

2007-03-11 Thread Steven Bethard
On 3/11/07, Christian Heimes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jon Ribbens schrieb: I see you snipped without response my request to back up your claim that assuming that a date() is a datetime() with a time of midnight will clearly break that logic. I've another idea. Date and datetime objects

Re: [Python-Dev] datetime module enhancements

2007-03-11 Thread BJörn Lindqvist
On 3/11/07, Steven Bethard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/11/07, Christian Heimes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've another idea. Date and datetime objects are compared by date. The date object for a given date is always smaller than the datetime for the same day - even for midnight. I really

Re: [Python-Dev] Backports of standard library modules

2007-03-11 Thread Brett Cannon
On 3/11/07, Patrick Maupin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please forgive me if this has already been discussed -- I only recently started paying any attention to this list. Many versions of python include new standard library modules that could (or often do already) work fine with previous

Re: [Python-Dev] datetime module enhancements

2007-03-11 Thread Steven Bethard
On 3/11/07, BJörn Lindqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not really understand proper temporal intervals. But I am interested what temporal interval logic has to say about this problem: def get_most_recent_articles(articles, cutoff_date): recent_articles = [] for article in

Re: [Python-Dev] datetime module enhancements

2007-03-11 Thread Robert Brewer
Jon Ribbens wrote: Robert Brewer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One solution that just occurred to me -- and that skirts the issue of choosing an interpretation -- is that, when comparing date and datetime objects, the datetime's .date() method is called and the result of that call is

Re: [Python-Dev] datetime module enhancements

2007-03-11 Thread Jon Ribbens
Steven Bethard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was trying to minimize the extent of this already too long thread, assuming you could go do the reading I referred you to if you were really interested in the answer. There's nothing to be gained by being patronising. I still encourage you to read

Re: [Python-Dev] datetime module enhancements

2007-03-11 Thread Collin Winter
On 3/11/07, Jon Ribbens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snark] It makes pragmatic assumptions about what people mean when they use date arithmetic. They might not be the assumptions you want, but then it's probably not the module you want. Please find or write a package that makes the assumptions

Re: [Python-Dev] Backports of standard library modules

2007-03-11 Thread glyph
On 11 Mar, 10:32 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If this seems useful to others, I could try to start a PEP on how the process would work (but since I'm fairly new, it would be great if someone could help out a bit by validating my verbiage against some of the process requirements). Isn't this

Re: [Python-Dev] Python-3000 upgrade path

2007-03-11 Thread Andrew McNamara
I wrote two versions of the dict views refactoring. One that turns d.keys() into list(d.keys()) and d.iterkeys() into iter(d.keys()). This one is pretty robust except if you have classes that emulate 2.x-style dicts. But it generates ugly code. So I have a light-weight version that leaves d.keys()

Re: [Python-Dev] Backports of standard library modules

2007-03-11 Thread Collin Winter
On 3/11/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11 Mar, 10:32 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If this seems useful to others, I could try to start a PEP on how the process would work (but since I'm fairly new, it would be great if someone could help out a bit by validating my verbiage

Re: [Python-Dev] datetime module enhancements

2007-03-11 Thread Jon Ribbens
Collin Winter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please find or write a package that makes the assumptions you want, since datetime clearly isn't the module you want. Datetime clearly *is* the module I want. It already makes the assumptions I want, I just want it to make them consistently.

Re: [Python-Dev] Backports of standard library modules

2007-03-11 Thread Patrick Maupin
On 3/11/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isn't this PEP 297? Thanks for pointing that out. I looked for a relevant PEP, but didn't notice this one. I think this is complementary, but (if I am reading it correctly) it is not exactly the same. The alternate search path is a

[Python-Dev] Weekly Python Patch/Bug Summary

2007-03-11 Thread Kurt B. Kaiser
Patch / Bug Summary ___ Patches : 380 open (-36) / 3658 closed (+65) / 4038 total (+29) Bugs: 965 open ( -9) / 6555 closed (+35) / 7520 total (+26) RFE : 272 open ( +4) / 253 closed ( +2) / 525 total ( +6) New / Reopened Patches __

[Python-Dev] These csv test cases seem incorrect to me...

2007-03-11 Thread skip
I decided it would be worthwhile to have a csv module written in Python (no C underpinnings) for a number of reasons: * It will probably be easier to add Unicode support to a Python version * More people will be able to read/grok/modify/fix bugs in a Python implementation than in

Re: [Python-Dev] These csv test cases seem incorrect to me...

2007-03-11 Thread Andrew McNamara
I decided it would be worthwhile to have a csv module written in Python (no C underpinnings) for a number of reasons: Several other people have already done this. I will forward you their e-mail address in a separate private e-mail. I'm far from having anything which will pass the current test

Re: [Python-Dev] These csv test cases seem incorrect to me...

2007-03-11 Thread Jon Ribbens
Andrew McNamara [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The point was to produce the same results as Excel. Sure, Excel probably doesn't generate crap like this itself, but 3rd parties do, and people complain if we don't parse it just like Excel (sigh). The slight problem with copying Excel is that Excel

Re: [Python-Dev] These csv test cases seem incorrect to me...

2007-03-11 Thread skip
I'm far from having anything which will pass the current test suite, but in diagnosing some of my current failures I noticed a couple test cases which seem wrong. In the TestDialectExcel class I see these two questionable tests: def test_quotes_and_more(self):

Re: [Python-Dev] [Csv] These csv test cases seem incorrect to me...

2007-03-11 Thread skip
John IMHO these test cases are *WRONG* and it's a worry that they John work with the current csv module :-( That's my take on things as well, though as Andrew pointed out, given those invalid inputs Excel will produce those wacky outputs. I verified that on my Mac a few minutes ago.

Re: [Python-Dev] [Csv] These csv test cases seem incorrect to me...

2007-03-11 Thread John Machin
On 12/03/2007 1:01 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I decided it would be worthwhile to have a csv module written in Python (no C underpinnings) for a number of reasons: * It will probably be easier to add Unicode support to a Python version * More people will be able to

Re: [Python-Dev] [Csv] These csv test cases seem incorrect to me...

2007-03-11 Thread John Machin
On 12/03/2007 1:41 PM, Andrew McNamara wrote: The point was to produce the same results as Excel. Sure, Excel probably doesn't generate crap like this itself, but 3rd parties do, and people complain if we don't parse it just like Excel (sigh). Let's put a little flesh on those a's and b's:

Re: [Python-Dev] datetime module enhancements

2007-03-11 Thread Greg Ewing
Jon Ribbens wrote: Steven Bethard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We know that: date(2006, 1, 1) *Includes* datetime(2006, 1, 1, 0, 0, 1) Oh dear. You've fallen at the first hurdle. We do not know that. Translated into English, this is saying The 1st of January 2006 includes the time one

Re: [Python-Dev] [Csv] These csv test cases seem incorrect to me...

2007-03-11 Thread Andrew McNamara
IMHO these test cases are *WRONG* and it's a worry that they work with the current csv module :-( Those tests are not wrong - they verify that we produce the same result as Excel when presented with those inputs, which was one of the design goals of the module (and is an important consideration

[Python-Dev] Folding test_operations in to test_dict

2007-03-11 Thread Collin Winter
Jerry Seutter posted patch #1678088 yesterday, which converts test_operations over to use unittest and folds the resulting code into test_dict. It struck me as a good idea, because a) it gets away from output/-based tests, and b) test_operations tests certain dictionary operations, something that

Re: [Python-Dev] Folding test_operations in to test_dict

2007-03-11 Thread Neal Norwitz
On 3/11/07, Collin Winter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jerry Seutter posted patch #1678088 yesterday, which converts test_operations over to use unittest and folds the resulting code into test_dict. It struck me as a good idea, because a) it gets away from output/-based tests, and b)

Re: [Python-Dev] fmod.c

2007-03-11 Thread Neal Norwitz
Unless someone speaks up to save Python/fmod.c, I'll remove this file in a few days. Thanks Paul! n -- On 3/10/07, Paul Hankin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Is there any need for Python/fmod.c any more? I can't see how it can be included because there's no test for fmod in the

Re: [Python-Dev] pydoc II

2007-03-11 Thread Talin
Laurent Gautier wrote: - low-energy barrier for adding support for other-than-plain-text docstrings I'd be interested in discussing this offline (I might have already spoken to you about it before, but I don't remember who I spoke to.) I think I've mentioned before about DocLobster, which is