Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3.7: Require OpenSSL >=1.0.2 / LibreSSL >= 2.5.3

On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 15:49:21 +0100 Christian Heimes wrote: > On 2018-01-13 14:23, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 13:54:33 +0100 > > Christian Heimes wrote: > >> > >> If we agree to drop support for OpenSSL 0.9.8 and 1.0.1, then I can

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3.7: Require OpenSSL >=1.0.2 / LibreSSL >= 2.5.3

On 2018-01-13 14:23, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 13:54:33 +0100 > Christian Heimes wrote: >> >> If we agree to drop support for OpenSSL 0.9.8 and 1.0.1, then I can land >> bunch of useful goodies like proper hostname verification [2], proper >> fix for IP

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

On Sat, Jan 13, 2018, at 12:06, Christian Heimes wrote: > Hi, > > PEP 370 [1] was my first PEP that got accepted. I created it exactly one > decade and two days ago for Python 2.6 and 3.0. Back then we didn't have > virtual environment support in Python. Ian Bicking had just started to > create

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

On 2018-01-13 19:04, Random832 wrote: > On Sat, Jan 13, 2018, at 12:06, Christian Heimes wrote: >> Hi, >> >> PEP 370 [1] was my first PEP that got accepted. I created it exactly one >> decade and two days ago for Python 2.6 and 3.0. Back then we didn't have >> virtual environment support in

[Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

Hi, PEP 370 [1] was my first PEP that got accepted. I created it exactly one decade and two days ago for Python 2.6 and 3.0. Back then we didn't have virtual environment support in Python. Ian Bicking had just started to create the virtualenv project a couple of months earlier. Fast forward 10

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

Hello, On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:18:41 +0100 Christian Heimes wrote: [] > >> Nowadays Python has venv in the standard library. The user-specific > >> site-packages directory is no longer that useful. I would even say > >> it's causing more trouble than it's worth. For

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

On 2018-01-13 20:08, Oleg Broytman wrote: > Hi! > > On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 06:06:16PM +0100, Christian Heimes > wrote: >> Hi, >> >> PEP 370 [1] was my first PEP that got accepted. I created it exactly one >> decade and two days ago for Python 2.6 and 3.0. Back then we

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 09:00:07PM +0100, Christian Heimes wrote: > On 2018-01-13 20:08, Oleg Broytman wrote: > > Hi! > > > > On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 06:06:16PM +0100, Christian Heimes > > wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> PEP 370 [1] was my first PEP that

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

On Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 11:13 Miro Hrončok, wrote: > On 13.1.2018 18:06, Christian Heimes wrote: > > Nowadays Python has venv in the standard library. The user-specific > > site-packages directory is no longer that useful. I would even say it's > > causing more trouble than

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3.7: Require OpenSSL >=1.0.2 / LibreSSL >= 2.5.3

On Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 05:24 Antoine Pitrou, wrote: > On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 13:54:33 +0100 > Christian Heimes wrote: > > > > If we agree to drop support for OpenSSL 0.9.8 and 1.0.1, then I can land > > bunch of useful goodies like proper hostname

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:18:41 +0100 Christian Heimes wrote: > On 2018-01-13 19:04, Random832 wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 13, 2018, at 12:06, Christian Heimes wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> PEP 370 [1] was my first PEP that got accepted. I created it exactly one > >> decade and two

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

On 13.1.2018 18:06, Christian Heimes wrote: Nowadays Python has venv in the standard library. The user-specific site-packages directory is no longer that useful. I would even say it's causing more trouble than it's worth. For example it's common for system script to use "#!/usr/bin/python3"

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

On 2018-01-13 19:57, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 19:18:41 +0100 > Christian Heimes wrote: >> On 2018-01-13 19:04, Random832 wrote: >>> On Sat, Jan 13, 2018, at 12:06, Christian Heimes wrote: Hi, PEP 370 [1] was my first PEP that got accepted.

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 21:06:19 +0100 Christian Heimes wrote: > >> > >> I see two option: > >> > >> 1) "pip install --user" is no longer supported. You have to learn how to > >> use virtual envs. It's really easy: "python3 -m venv path; path/bin/pip > >> install package". > >>

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

Hi all, I'm a user who decided to read the mailing list and respond to argue against and maybe stop things I don't think will help users as much as you think.I think deprecating user site-packages is such a change. That venvs exist doesn't mean most or even many people use them, even though I'm

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

Hi! On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 06:06:16PM +0100, Christian Heimes wrote: > Hi, > > PEP 370 [1] was my first PEP that got accepted. I created it exactly one > decade and two days ago for Python 2.6 and 3.0. Back then we didn't have > virtual environment support in Python. Ian

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 07:18:41PM +0100, Christian Heimes wrote: > On 2018-01-13 19:04, Random832 wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 13, 2018, at 12:06, Christian Heimes wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> PEP 370 [1] was my first PEP that got accepted. I created it exactly one > >> decade and

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

I’m generally +1, though I don’t see an easy migration path. Moving to a node.js project model might be feasible, but I suspect our real solution will end up having to be ensuring use of -s where it’s needed. Top-posted from my Windows phone From: Christian Heimes Sent: Sunday, January 14,

[Python-Dev] Python 3.7: Require OpenSSL >=1.0.2 / LibreSSL >= 2.5.3

Hi, I'm still working on a ssl module PEP for 3.7 [1], but it's probably not going to be finished before beta 1 deadline. I have a bunch of fixes and improvements for the ssl module in queue, most of them require OpenSSL 1.0.2 features. The features are also present and working properly since

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3.7: Require OpenSSL >=1.0.2 / LibreSSL >= 2.5.3

On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 13:54:33 +0100 Christian Heimes wrote: > > If we agree to drop support for OpenSSL 0.9.8 and 1.0.1, then I can land > bunch of useful goodies like proper hostname verification [2], proper > fix for IP address in SNI TLS header [3], PEP 543 compatible

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3.7: Require OpenSSL >=1.0.2 / LibreSSL >= 2.5.3

On 2018-01-13 21:02, Brett Cannon wrote: > +1 from me as well for the improved security. Thanks, Brett! How should we handle CPython's Travis CI tests? The 14.04 boxes have OpenSSL 1.0.1. To the best of my knowledge, Travis doesn't offer 16.04. We could either move to container-based testing

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 09:00:07PM +0100, Christian Heimes wrote: > You'd be surprised how many tools and programs are using Python these > days. You can easily break important user programs by installing a > package with --user. Or by writing a Python script and innocently giving it the same

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3.7: Require OpenSSL >=1.0.2 / LibreSSL >= 2.5.3

On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 02:23:19PM +0100, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 13:54:33 +0100 > Christian Heimes wrote: > > > > If we agree to drop support for OpenSSL 0.9.8 and 1.0.1, then I can land > > bunch of useful goodies like proper hostname verification [2],

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

I would suggest throwing this to -ideas, rather than just keeping it in -dev as there is a much wider community of users and usecases in -ideas. ... and -ideas will shoot it down because user installs are too useful. It is also my understanding that it is the desire of PyPA to eventually have

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

On Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 17:27 Alex Walters, wrote: > I would suggest throwing this to -ideas, rather than just keeping it in > -dev > as there is a much wider community of users and usecases in -ideas. > > ... and -ideas will shoot it down because user installs are too

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

On Jan 13, 2018, at 11:12, Miro Hrončok wrote: > > We would very much like to see --user the default rather than having it > removed. Very much +1. In Debian/Ubuntu we’ve carried patches to do exactly that for years, and I think our users have been very happy about it.

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3.7: Require OpenSSL >=1.0.2 / LibreSSL >= 2.5.3

On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 02:16:53AM +, Brett Cannon wrote: > My guess is we either move to containers on Travis, see if we can manually > install -- through apt or something -- a newer version of OpenSSL OpenSSL 1.0.2 cannot be installed with apt on Trusty but I think it

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

On Jan 13, 2018 9:08 AM, "Christian Heimes" wrote: Hi, PEP 370 [1] was my first PEP that got accepted. I created it exactly one decade and two days ago for Python 2.6 and 3.0. I didn't know I had you to thank for this! Thanks Christian! This is one of the best features

Re: [Python-Dev] Deprecate PEP 370 Per user site-packages directory?

On Jan 13, 2018, at 12:06, Christian Heimes wrote: > These days a lot of packages are using setuptools' entry points to > create console scripts. Entry point have no option to create a console > script with -s or -I flag. On my system, only 40 out of 360 scripts in >

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3.7: Require OpenSSL >=1.0.2 / LibreSSL >= 2.5.3

On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 4:34 PM Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 02:23:19PM +0100, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 13:54:33 +0100 > > Christian Heimes wrote: > > > > > > If we agree to drop support for OpenSSL 0.9.8 and

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3.7: Require OpenSSL >=1.0.2 / LibreSSL >= 2.5.3

On Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 14:45 Christian Heimes, wrote: > On 2018-01-13 21:02, Brett Cannon wrote: > > +1 from me as well for the improved security. > > Thanks, Brett! > > How should we handle CPython's Travis CI tests? The 14.04 boxes have > OpenSSL 1.0.1. To the best of my

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3.7: Require OpenSSL >=1.0.2 / LibreSSL >= 2.5.3

One thing to note is that if getting Travis working with Python 3.7 is a pain, a huge number of libraries on PyPI probably just won't test against Python 3.7, which is not a great situation to be in. It's probably worth contacting Travis to give them a head's up and see how likely it is that