[Python-Dev] exec documentation

2009-01-09 Thread Glenn Linderman
in 2.6 and before execfile is listed in builtin functions, and is not marked deprecated, and exec is in the simple statements, and is not marked deprecated. in 3.0 execfile is not listed in builtin functions, exec is. exec is not listed in simple statements. I guess this is an intended

Re: [Python-Dev] exec documentation

2009-01-09 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 1/9/2009 3:40 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Terry Reedy: Glenn Linderman wrote: in 2.6 and before execfile is listed in builtin functions, and is not marked deprecated, and exec is in the simple statements, and is not marked deprecated. Because

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 372 -- Adding an ordered directory to collections ready for pronouncement

2009-03-03 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 3/3/2009 4:51 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Greg Ewing: Terry Reedy wrote: I almost agree, except that the API uses the dict, not list, API. Yes, as long as the API is dict-like, it really needs to be thought of as a kind of dict. Perhaps the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 372 -- Adding an ordered directory to collections ready for pronouncement

2009-03-04 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 3/3/2009 11:22 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Raymond Hettinger: Perhaps the terminology should be ordereddict -- what we have here sorteddict -- hypothetical future type that keeps itself sorted in key order +1 -1 Introducing

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: Replace MS Windows Console with Unicode UI

2009-03-22 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 3/22/2009 8:48 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Terry Reedy: One of the disappointments of CPython 3.0 on Windows is that the switch to unicode for text (str), coupled with the continued use of a unicode-oblivious (obtuse) user interface (MS 'Command

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: Replace MS Windows Console with Unicode UI

2009-03-23 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 3/23/2009 12:12 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Terry Reedy: Glenn Linderman wrote: One can set CMD into Unicode mode (chcp 65001)... not sure how Python reacts to that either. But even then... I tried that and others have reported doing so

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC: Replace MS Windows Console with Unicode UI

2009-03-24 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 3/24/2009 10:16 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of INADA Naoki: Hi. I'm Japanese and non-ascii charactor user. (cp932) We have to use IME to input non-ascii charactor in Windows. When chcp 65001 in cmd.exe, we cannot use IME on cmd.exe. So setting codepage

Re: [Python-Dev] [Email-SIG] Dropping bytes support in json

2009-04-10 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/10/2009 9:56 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Barry Warsaw: On Apr 10, 2009, at 1:19 AM, gl...@divmod.com wrote: On 02:38 am, ba...@python.org wrote: So, what I'm really asking is this. Let's say you agree that there are use cases for accessing a

Re: [Python-Dev] Needing help to change the grammar

2009-04-12 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/12/2009 2:41 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Tony Nelson: At 16:30 -0400 04/12/2009, Terry Reedy wrote: ... Source in .pyb (python-brazil) is parsed with with your new parser, ... In case anyone ever does this again, I suggest that the extension be

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-24 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/24/2009 12:59 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Simon Cross: On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 8:50 AM, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: For Python 3, one proposed solution is to provide two sets of APIs: a byte-oriented one, and a character-oriented one,

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-24 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/24/2009 11:40 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Stephen J. Turnbull: Antoine Pitrou writes: Stephen J. Turnbull stephen at xemacs.org writes: Well, the problem is that both parts are false. If you didn't start with a valid string in a known

Re: [Python-Dev] Dates in python-dev

2009-04-24 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/24/2009 10:06 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Oleg Broytmann: On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 05:29:29PM +0100, MRAB wrote: I've recently subscribed to this list and received my first Summary of Python tracker Issues. What I find annoying are the dates, for

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-27 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/25/2009 5:35 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: Because the encoding is not reliably reversible. Why do you say that? The encoding is completely reversible (unless we disagree on what reversible means). I'm +1 on the concept, -1 on the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-27 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/25/2009 5:22 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: The problem with this, and other preceding schemes that have been discussed here, is that there is no means of ascertaining whether a particular file name str was obtained from a str API, or

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-27 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/27/2009 12:55 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Cameron Simpson: On 26Apr2009 23:39, Glenn Linderman v+pyt...@g.nevcal.com wrote: [...snip...] There are still issues regarding how Windows and POSIX programs that are sharing cross-mounted file systems

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-27 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/27/2009 12:42 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: It's a private use area. It will never carry an official character assignment. I know that U+F - U+F is a private use area. I don't find a definition of U+F01xx to know what the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-27 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/27/2009 12:48 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: There are still issues regarding how Windows and POSIX programs that are sharing cross-mounted file systems might communicate file names between each other, which is not at all clear from

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-27 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/27/2009 2:14 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Cameron Simpson: On 27Apr2009 00:07, Glenn Linderman v+pyt...@g.nevcal.com wrote: On approximately 4/25/2009 5:22 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: The problem

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-27 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/27/2009 5:42 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Cameron Simpson: I think that, almost independent of this PEP, there should be an os.fsencode() function that takes a byte string (as a POSIX OS call will take) and performs the _same_ byte-string encoding

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-27 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/27/2009 8:35 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: Glenn Linderman wrote: On approximately 4/27/2009 12:42 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: It's a private use area. It will never carry an official

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-27 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/27/2009 8:39 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: I'm not suggesting the PEP should solve the problem of mounting foreign file systems, although if it doesn't it should probably point that out. I'm just suggesting that if the people that

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-28 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/27/2009 7:11 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Cameron Simpson: On 27Apr2009 18:15, Glenn Linderman v+pyt...@g.nevcal.com wrote: The problem with this, and other preceding schemes that have been discussed here, is that there is no means of ascertaining

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-28 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/28/2009 10:00 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: An alternative that doesn't suffer from the risk of not being able to store decoded strings would have been the use of PUA characters, but people rejected it because of the potential

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-28 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/28/2009 10:53 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of James Y Knight: On Apr 28, 2009, at 2:50 AM, Martin v. Löwis wrote: James Y Knight wrote: Hopefully it can be assumed that your locale encoding really is a non-overlapping superset of ASCII, as is

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-28 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/28/2009 11:55 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of MRAB: I've been thinking of python-escape only in terms of UTF-8, the only encoding mentioned in the PEP. In UTF-8, bytes 0x00 to 0x7F are decodable. UTF-8 is only mentioned in the sense of having special

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-28 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/28/2009 6:01 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Lino Mastrodomenico: 2009/4/28 Glenn Linderman v+pyt...@g.nevcal.com: The switch from PUA to half-surrogates does not resolve the issues with the encoding not being a 1-to-1 mapping, though. The very fact

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-28 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/28/2009 1:25 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: The UTF-8b representation suffers from the same potential ambiguities as the PUA characters... Not at all the same ambiguities. Here, again, the two choices: A. use PUA characters to

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-28 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/28/2009 2:02 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: Glenn Linderman wrote: On approximately 4/28/2009 1:25 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: The UTF-8b representation suffers from the same potential

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-28 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/28/2009 2:01 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of MRAB: Glenn Linderman wrote: On approximately 4/28/2009 11:55 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of MRAB: I've been thinking of python-escape only in terms of UTF-8, the only encoding

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-28 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/28/2009 7:40 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of R. David Murray: On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 at 13:37, Glenn Linderman wrote: C. File on disk with the invalid surrogate code, accessed via the str interface, no decoding happens, matches in memory the file on disk

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-28 Thread Glenn Linderman
call 3rd party filenames-as-bytes libraries in 2.x must be tweaked to do something different than they did before. On 27Apr2009 23:52, Glenn Linderman v+pyt...@g.nevcal.com wrote: On approximately 4/27/2009 7:11 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Cameron Simpson

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-29 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/28/2009 10:52 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: C. File on disk with the invalid surrogate code, accessed via the str interface, no decoding happens, matches in memory the file on disk with the byte that translates to the same surrogate,

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383 (again)

2009-04-29 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/29/2009 12:17 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: OK, so you are saying that under PEP 383, utf-8b wouldn't be used anywhere on Windows by default. That's not clear from your proposal. You didn't read it carefully enough. The first three

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-29 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/29/2009 12:38 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Baptiste Carvello: Glenn Linderman a écrit : 3. When an undecodable byte 0xPQ is found, decode to the escape codepoint, followed by codepoint U+01PQ, where P and Q are hex digits. The problem

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-29 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/29/2009 12:29 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: C. File on disk with the invalid surrogate code, accessed via the str interface, no decoding happens, matches in memory the file on disk with the byte that translates to the same surrogate,

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-29 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/29/2009 4:07 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of R. David Murray: On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 at 20:29, Glenn Linderman wrote: On approximately 4/28/2009 7:40 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of R. David Murray: On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 at 13:37

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-29 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/29/2009 1:28 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: C. File on disk with the invalid surrogate code, accessed via the str interface, no decoding happens, matches in memory the file on disk with the byte that translates to the same surrogate,

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383 (again)

2009-04-29 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/29/2009 1:06 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: Thanks, fixed. Thanks for your fixes. They are helpful. I'm at a loss how to make the text more clear than it already is. I'm really not good at writing long essays, with a lot of

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-30 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/29/2009 8:46 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Terry Reedy: Glenn Linderman wrote: On approximately 4/29/2009 1:28 PM, came the following characters from So where is the ambiguity here? None. But not everyone can read all the Python source code

Re: [Python-Dev] a suggestion ... Re: PEP 383 (again)

2009-04-30 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/29/2009 10:17 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: I don't understand the proposal and issues. I see a lot of people claiming that they do, and then spending all their time either talking past each other, or disagreeing. If everyone who

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383: Non-decodable Bytes in System Character Interfaces

2009-04-30 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/29/2009 7:50 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Aahz: On Thu, Apr 30, 2009, Cameron Simpson wrote: The lengthy discussion mostly revolves around: - Glenn points out that strings that came _not_ from listdir, and that are _not_ well-formed unicode

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383 and GUI libraries

2009-04-30 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 4/30/2009 1:48 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: I checked how GUI libraries deal with half surrogates. In pygtk, a warning gets issued to the console /tmp/helloworld.py:71: PangoWarning: Invalid UTF-8 string passed to

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383 update: utf8b is now the error handler

2009-05-06 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 5/6/2009 6:33 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Stephen J. Turnbull: Martin v. Löwis writes: In any case, Python 3.1b1 may get released today, so it's way too late for new features in the PEP. They can wait for Python 3.2. You have convinced me that the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383 update: utf8b is now the error handler

2009-05-06 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 5/6/2009 3:08 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of MRAB: M.-A. Lemburg wrote: Martin v. Löwis wrote: Judging by the existing names, I think that 'surrogate' would be reasonable. It already contains the meaning of substitute, it's not too long, and the codes

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383 update: utf8b is now the error handler

2009-05-06 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 5/6/2009 12:53 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: Sorry! I suggest substituting the paragraph above for the paragraph which begins The encode error handler interface presentlyrequires... at line 129. Ah, ok. This was Glen Linderman's

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383 update: utf8b is now the error handler

2009-05-06 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 5/6/2009 12:18 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn: On May 6, 2009, at 10:54 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn zooko at zooko.com writes: I'm not thinking of API compatibility as much as data compatibility -- someone used

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383 update: utf8b is now the error handler

2009-05-06 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 5/6/2009 6:06 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of M.-A. Lemburg: Martin, please stop being silly and just change the name. Yes, please. If indeed Marc-Andre invented the codec business as he claims, he would be an appropriate person to give a fiat name

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383 update: utf8b is now the error handler

2009-05-07 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 5/6/2009 10:53 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: The error handler designed with utf-8 in mind has no name in the encode direction and is called utf_8b_decoder_invalid_bytes in the decode direction. By your reasoning, *that* should be its

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383 update: utf8b is now the error handler

2009-05-07 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 5/6/2009 11:16 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: So are you proposing that I should rename the PEP 383 handler to utf_8b_encoder_invalid_codepoints? No, he's saying that your algorithm for choosing the PEP 383 handler should have come up

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 383 update: utf8b is now the error handler

2009-05-07 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 5/7/2009 3:27 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of MRAB: Terry Reedy wrote: Martin v. Löwis wrote: So I'm happy to make it surrogatepass and surrogateescape as These seem adequate. It is not what I would choose or suggest, but it is adequate, and it is

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 376 : Changing the .egg-info structure

2009-05-16 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 5/16/2009 9:55 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of P.J. Eby: At 06:06 PM 5/16/2009 +0200, Tarek Ziadé wrote: Ok I've changed the PEP with all the points you mentioned, if you want to take a look. Some notes: 1. Why ';' separation, instead of tabs as in PEP

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 376 : Changing the .egg-info structure

2009-05-16 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 5/16/2009 11:58 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of P.J. Eby: At 11:17 AM 5/16/2009 -0700, Glenn Linderman wrote: On approximately 5/16/2009 9:55 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of P.J. Eby: At 06:06 PM 5/16/2009 +0200, Tarek Ziadé wrote

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 376 : Changing the .egg-info structure

2009-05-16 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 5/16/2009 1:08 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Martin v. Löwis: Alexander Shigin wrote: В Сбт, 16/05/2009 в 14:58 -0400, P.J. Eby пишет: ; *is* valid in Windows filenames, actually. Tabs aresn't. I was sure ';' is separator for PATH in Windows. Do I

Re: [Python-Dev] Making the GIL faster lighter on Windows

2009-05-26 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 5/26/2009 12:48 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Phillip Sitbon: Hi everyone, I'm new to the list but I've been embedding Python and working very closely with the core sources for many years now. I discovered Python a long time ago when I needed to embed a

Re: [Python-Dev] io.BufferedReader.peek() Behaviour in python3.1

2009-06-16 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 6/16/2009 11:20 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Scott David Daniels: MRAB wrote: I was thinking along the lines of: def peek(self, size=None, block=True) If 'block' is True then return 'size' bytes, unless the end of the file/stream is reached; if

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 385: the eol-type issue

2009-08-05 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 8/5/2009 4:28 AM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Dirkjan Ochtman: On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 13:19, Mark Hammondmhamm...@skippinet.com.au wrote: Configuring on each clone would certainly be sub-optimal, so the proposal is this configuration be stored in a

Re: [Python-Dev] www/svn python.org status update

2009-08-10 Thread Glenn Linderman
On approximately 8/10/2009 12:12 PM, came the following characters from the keyboard of Thomas Wouters: I'm still waiting on a replacement controller, so it wasn't to be today. Hopefully tomorrow, if the hardware supplier has one in stock. Still no news on whether we have any chance at all on

Re: [Python-Dev] Hash collision security issue (now public)

2012-01-05 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 1/5/2012 9:34 AM, Maciej Fijalkowski wrote: Also consider that new 2.6.x would go as a security fix to old ubuntu, but all other packages won't, because they'll not contain security fixes. Just so you know Why should CPython by constrained by broken policies of Ubuntu? If the other

Re: [Python-Dev] Hash collision security issue (now public)

2012-01-05 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 1/5/2012 11:49 AM, Tres Seaver wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 01/05/2012 02:14 PM, Glenn Linderman wrote: 1) the security problem is not in CPython, but rather in web servers that use dict inappropriately. Most webapp vulnerabilities are due to their use

Re: [Python-Dev] Hash collision security issue (now public)

2012-01-05 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 1/5/2012 5:52 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: At some point, presuming that there is no speed penalty, the behaviour will surely become not just enabled by default but mandatory. Python has never promised that hashes must be predictable or consistent, so apart from backwards compatibility

Re: [Python-Dev] Hash collision security issue (now public)

2012-01-06 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 1/5/2012 4:10 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 8:15 AM, Serhiy Storchakastorch...@gmail.com wrote: 05.01.12 21:14, Glenn Linderman написав(ла): So, fixing the vulnerable packages could be a sufficient response, rather than changing the hash function. How to fix? Each

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of the fix for the hash collision vulnerability

2012-01-13 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 1/13/2012 5:35 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: - Glenn Linderman proposes to fix the vulnerability by adding a new safe dict type (only accepting string keys). His proof-of-concept (SafeDict.py) uses a secret of 64 random bits and uses it to compute the hash of a key. We could mix Marc's collision

Re: [Python-Dev] Hashing proposal: change only string-only dicts

2012-01-18 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 1/18/2012 9:52 AM, Martin v. Löwis wrote: I've been seriously considering implementing a balanced tree inside the dict (again for string-only dicts, as ordering can't be guaranteed otherwise). However, this would be a lot of code for a security fix. It*would* solve the issue for good,

Re: [Python-Dev] Counting collisions for the win

2012-01-19 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 1/19/2012 8:54 PM, Carl Meyer wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Victor, On 01/19/2012 05:48 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: [snip] Using a randomized hash may also break (indirectly) real applications because the application output is also somehow randomized. For example,

Re: [Python-Dev] Counting collisions for the win

2012-01-23 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 1/23/2012 12:53 AM, Frank Sievertsen wrote: What if we use a second (randomized) hash-function in case there are many collisions in ONE lookup. This hash-function is used only for collision resolution and is not cached. So this sounds like SafeDict, but putting it under the covers and

Re: [Python-Dev] Counting collisions for the win

2012-01-23 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 1/23/2012 10:58 AM, Frank Sievertsen wrote: On 23.01.2012 19:25, Glenn Linderman wrote: So this sounds like SafeDict, but putting it under the covers and automatically converting from dict to SafeDict after a collision threshold has been reached. Let's call it fallback-dict. and costs

Re: [Python-Dev] [issue13703] Hash collision security issue

2012-01-26 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 1/26/2012 10:25 PM, Gregory P. Smith wrote: (and on top of all of this I believe we're all settled on having per interpreter hash randomization_as well_ in 3.3; but this AVL tree approach is one nice option for a backport to fix the major vulnerability) If the tree code cures the problem,

Re: [Python-Dev] [issue13703] Hash collision security issue

2012-01-27 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 1/26/2012 10:47 PM, Glenn Linderman wrote: On 1/26/2012 10:25 PM, Gregory P. Smith wrote: (and on top of all of this I believe we're all settled on having per interpreter hash randomization_as well_ in 3.3; but this AVL tree approach is one nice option for a backport to fix the major

Re: [Python-Dev] [issue13703] Hash collision security issue

2012-01-27 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 1/27/2012 11:39 AM, mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: Another issue occurs to me: when a hash with colliding keys (one that has been attacked, and has trees) has a non-string key added, isn't the flattening process likely to have extremely poor performance? Correct. Thanks for the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 409 update [was: PEP 409 - final?]

2012-02-02 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 2/2/2012 2:10 PM, Ethan Furman wrote: * Use /Ellipsis/ as the default value (the /.../ singleton). Accepted. There are no other possible values; it cannot be raised as it is not an acception; it has the connotation of 'fill in the rest...' as in /__cause__/ is not set, look in

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP: New timestamp formats

2012-02-02 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 2/2/2012 6:28 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Thu, 2 Feb 2012 15:09:41 +0100 Victor Stinnervictor.stin...@haypocalc.com wrote: Why int? That doesn't seem to bring anything. It helps to deprecate/replace os.stat_float_times(), which may be used for backward compatibility (with Python 2.2 ?

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP: New timestamp formats

2012-02-02 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 2/2/2012 3:38 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 8:37 AM, Glenn Lindermanv+pyt...@g.nevcal.com wrote: Sorry to bring this up, but the PEP should probably consider another option: Introducing a precedent following os.stat_decimal_times(). Like os.stat_float_times, it would

Re: [Python-Dev] requirements for moving __import__ over to importlib?

2012-02-09 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 2/9/2012 11:53 AM, Mike Meyer wrote: On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 14:19:59 -0500 Brett Cannonbr...@python.org wrote: On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 13:43, PJ Ebyp...@telecommunity.com wrote: Again, the goal is fast startup of command-line tools that only use a small subset of the overall framework; doing

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of PEP 397 - Python launcher for Windows

2012-02-18 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 2/17/2012 9:24 PM, Mark Hammond wrote: I've been using the implementation for a number of months now and I find it incredibly useful. +1 ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev

Re: [Python-Dev] hash randomization in 3.3

2012-02-21 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 2/21/2012 11:58 AM, Benjamin Peterson wrote: 2012/2/21 Antoine Pitrousolip...@pitrou.net: Hello, Shouldn't it be enabled by default in 3.3? Should you be able to disable it? Yes, absolutely. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] Docs of weak stdlib modules should encourage exploration of 3rd-party alternatives

2012-03-12 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 3/12/2012 8:48 PM, C. Titus Brown wrote: I feel like there's a middle ground where stable, long-term go-to modules could be mentioned, though. I don't spend a lot of time browsing PyPI, but I suspect almost everyone spends a certain amount of time in the Python docs (which is a testimony to

Re: [Python-Dev] Docs of weak stdlib modules should encourage exploration of 3rd-party alternatives

2012-03-13 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 3/13/2012 6:31 AM, Paul Moore wrote: It can be very hard to separate the good from the indifferent (or even bad) when browsing PyPI. I've found some very good packages recently which I'd never have known about without some random comment on a mailing list. +1 However, I'm not keen on

Re: [Python-Dev] 2012 Language Summit Report

2012-03-14 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 3/14/2012 8:57 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: On 3/14/2012 10:12 AM, Brian Curtin wrote: As with last year, I've put together a summary of the Python Language Summit which took place last week at PyCon 2012. This was compiled from my notes as well as those of Eric Snow and Senthil Kumaran, and I

Re: [Python-Dev] Python install layout and the PATH on win32

2012-03-16 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 3/16/2012 9:22 AM, Lindberg, Van wrote: On 3/16/2012 10:53 AM, Paul Moore wrote: The only way I can read this to make sense is that you somehow consider the Python installation as part of your development environment (you mentioned source control earlier in the thread - surely you

Re: [Python-Dev] Python install layout and the PATH on win32

2012-03-16 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 3/16/2012 6:25 PM, Carl Meyer wrote: Hi Mark, On 03/16/2012 05:53 PM, Mark Hammond wrote: * All executables and scripts go into the root of the Python install. This directory is largely empty now - it is mainly a container for other directories. This would solve the problem of needing 2

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 405 (built-in virtualenv) status

2012-03-19 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 3/19/2012 2:26 AM, Kristján Valur Jónsson wrote: Hi Carl. I'm very interested in this work. At CCP we work heavily with virtual environments. Except that we don't use virtualenv because it is just a pain in the neck. We like to be able to run virtual python environments of various types

Re: [Python-Dev] regarding HTML mail

2012-03-19 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 3/19/2012 11:52 AM, Jesse Noller wrote: I'd like to discuss top-posting. Somewhere else, please. Oh, that was your point :) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe:

Re: [Python-Dev] Python install layout and the PATH on win32

2012-03-20 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 3/20/2012 11:50 AM, Merlijn van Deen wrote: As this is being considered an 'incompatible change' on the bug tracker item [1] in any case, I'd like to mention that this might also be a convenient moment to re-think the default install location. After all, software is supposed to be installed

Re: [Python-Dev] Python install layout and the PATH on win32

2012-03-20 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 3/20/2012 4:25 PM, Mark Hammond wrote: I think it does. Consider I've installed Python as a system install. Now I want to install some other package - ideally that installer will request elevation - all well and good - the .py files are installed. However, next time I want to run Python,

Re: [Python-Dev] Playing with a new theme for the docs

2012-03-22 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 3/22/2012 10:02 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: As they say, the 99% who are lousy designers give the rest a bad name. *wink* :) My first impression of this page: http://www.python.org/~gbrandl/build/html/index.html was that the grey side-bar gives the page a somber, perhaps even dreary,

Re: [Python-Dev] Playing with a new theme for the docs

2012-03-24 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 3/24/2012 5:41 PM, Ben Finney wrote: It's madness to expect web designers to hobble the flexibility of a web page to cater preferentially for one minority over others. But largely, the 99% that makes the rest of them look bad, do, in fact, do exactly that.

Re: [Python-Dev] Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

2012-03-25 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 3/24/2012 11:34 PM, Georg Brandl wrote: I've also added a little questionable gimmick to the sidebar (when you collapse it and expand it again, the content is shown at your current scroll location). It would be educational to see how you pulled that trick! I will look if I get time.

Re: [Python-Dev] Playing with a new theme for the docs

2012-03-26 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 3/26/2012 10:19 AM, R. David Murray wrote: Like Philip, I have*one* window. My window manager (ratpoison) is more like 'screen' for X: you*can* split the window up, but it is*much* more useful to have only one window visible at a time, most of the time. I'm amazed at the number of

Re: [Python-Dev] Playing with a new theme for the docs

2012-03-26 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 3/26/2012 10:58 AM, Ethan Furman wrote: Glenn Linderman wrote: On 3/26/2012 10:19 AM, R. David Murray wrote: Like Philip, I have *one* window. My window manager (ratpoison) is more like 'screen' for X: you *can* split the window up, but it is *much* more useful to have only one window

Re: [Python-Dev] Python install layout and the PATH on win32 (Rationale part 1: Regularizing the layout)

2012-03-26 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 3/26/2012 12:27 PM, PJ Eby wrote: On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Carl Meyer c...@oddbird.net mailto:c...@oddbird.net wrote: No disagreement here. I think virtualenv's sweet spot is as a convenient tool for development environments (used in virtualenvwrapper fashion, where

Re: [Python-Dev] Python install layout and the PATH on win32 (Rationale part 1: Regularizing the layout)

2012-03-26 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 3/26/2012 1:21 PM, Glenn Linderman wrote: Hmm. And here's something else that might be missing: integration of the launcher with .py files that are actually ZIP archives... where does it find the #! line? (probably it can't, currently -- I couldn't figure out how to make it do

Re: [Python-Dev] Integrating the PEP 397 launcher

2012-03-29 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 3/29/2012 3:50 PM, Brian Curtin wrote: On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 17:45, Benjamin Petersonbenja...@python.org wrote: 2012/3/29 Brian Curtinbr...@python.org: After talking with Martin and several others during the language summit and elsewhere around PyCon, PEP 397 should be accepted. I

Re: [Python-Dev] an alternative to embedding policy in PEP 418

2012-04-02 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 4/2/2012 4:37 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: The API looks much more complex than the API proposed in PEP 418 just to get the time. You have to call a function to get a function, and then call the function, instead of just calling a function directly. Instead of returning an object with a now()

Re: [Python-Dev] an alternative to embedding policy in PEP 418

2012-04-02 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 4/2/2012 2:40 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:44 AM, Glenn Lindermanv+pyt...@g.nevcal.com wrote: One thing I don't like about the idea of fallback being buried under some API is that the efficiency of that API on each call must be less than the efficiency of directly

Re: [Python-Dev] an alternative to embedding policy in PEP 418

2012-04-06 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 4/6/2012 4:11 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote: Another alternative is the public lists-of-clocks. After watching this thread with amusement and frustration, amusement because it is so big, and so many people have so many different opinions, frustration, because it seems that few of the clocks

Re: [Python-Dev] path joining on Windows and imp.cache_from_source()

2012-04-21 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 4/21/2012 8:53 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: imp.cache_from_source() (and thus also imp.source_from_cache()) has special semantics compared to how os.path.join() works. For instance, if you look at test_imp you will notice it tries to use the same path separator as is the farthest right in the

Re: [Python-Dev] sys.implementation

2012-04-27 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 4/27/2012 12:34 AM, Eric Snow wrote: On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Barry Warsawba...@python.org wrote: It's somewhat of a corner case, but I think a PEP couldn't hurt. The rationale section would be useful, at least.

Re: [Python-Dev] sys.implementation

2012-04-27 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 4/27/2012 11:49 AM, R. David Murray wrote: On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 10:40:43 -0700, Glenn Lindermanv+pyt...@g.nevcal.com wrote: On 4/27/2012 12:34 AM, Eric Snow wrote: On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Barry Warsawba...@python.org wrote: It's somewhat of a corner case, but I think a PEP

Re: [Python-Dev] package imports, sys.path and os.chdir()

2012-04-27 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 4/27/2012 1:00 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: I'm personally in favour of changing the insertion of '' to sys.path to inserting the cwd when the interpreter is launched. +1 ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] CRLF line endings

2012-05-03 Thread Glenn Linderman
On 5/3/2012 2:00 PM, mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: I think that .bat files strictly *have* to have CRLF line endings. Nope. Both .bat and .cmd work fine with LF only in Win7 (and IIRC, in XP as well, but I just tested Win7) ___ Python-Dev mailing list

  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   >