[Python-Dev] Re: The Python 2 death march

2019-09-09 Thread Rhodri James
On 09/09/2019 15:51, brian.sk...@gmail.com wrote: it's getting better? No it's not, it'll be stone dead in a moment. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP proposal to limit various aspects of a Python program to one million.

2019-12-03 Thread Rhodri James
nk, either. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.

[Python-Dev] Re: Deprecating the "u" string literal prefix

2019-12-03 Thread Rhodri James
en we are going to deprecate and remove the "u" prefix? [1] https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0414/ You are presupposing that the answer to the question "Are we going to deprecate and remove the "u" prefix" is "Yes". I'm not convi

[Python-Dev] Re: Please be more precise when commenting on PEP 611.

2019-12-09 Thread Rhodri James
you have made the case for limits yet. Certainly not convincingly. Without that argument, all I can really do is say that I think you're wrong. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send

[Python-Dev] Re: Please be more precise when commenting on PEP 611.

2019-12-10 Thread Rhodri James
that improved cache locality will speed things up, and Mark asks us to please justify our objections with numbers. But surely it's up to Mark to show numbers first? +1 -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 611: The one million limit.

2019-12-12 Thread Rhodri James
d-mask all the time). I've seen no hard evidence of any actual improvement of any size, and without that there really isn't a decision to be made. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe sen

[Python-Dev] Re: More feedback on PEP 611, please

2019-12-11 Thread Rhodri James
on, and the problem I'm trying to solve. In some cases, 1% increase in speed might be a godsend I'd sacrifice my non-existent first-born for. In others, no increase in memory consumption might be acceptable. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing

[Python-Dev] Re: Macros instead of inline functions?

2019-12-05 Thread Rhodri James
was doing, for example. I strongly recommend not starting down that path. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 611: The one million limit.

2019-12-06 Thread Rhodri James
nome Project is utterly ludicrous. Have we hit the limit with Big Data? I'm not brave enough to say that, and when you start looking at the numbers involved, one million anythings doesn't look so ridiculous at all. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___

[Python-Dev] Re: Python library for the ServiceNow REST API

2020-01-28 Thread Rhodri James
Python and the Standard Library. The ServiceNow package is provided on PyPI rather than being part of the standard library. You will probably be better off addressing your request to the project's GitHub page: https://github.com/locaweb.python-servicenow. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 584: Add Union Operators To dict

2020-02-05 Thread Rhodri James
d +1 on the whole thing. Good work, guys! -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message arch

[Python-Dev] Re: Request to postpone some Python 3.9 incompatible changes to Python 3.10

2020-02-04 Thread Rhodri James
ons should appear in a X.9 release to give folks time     to prepare. That feels like a very bad idea indeed. If you don't tell people things are going away, they definitely won't prepare for that. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev ma

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP: Modify the C API to hide implementation details

2020-04-13 Thread Rhodri James
On 13/04/2020 11:17, Steve Dower wrote: On 11Apr2020 1156, Rhodri James wrote: On 10/04/2020 18:20, Victor Stinner wrote: Note: Cython and cffi should be preferred to write new C extensions. This PEP is about existing C extensions which cannot be rewritten with Cython. If this is true

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP: Modify the C API to hide implementation details

2020-04-11 Thread Rhodri James
of writing a C extension, and using Cython or cffi never even crossed my mind. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3

[Python-Dev] Re: Problem with instantiating a C extension class from another class

2020-04-06 Thread Rhodri James
that you should compare your module init function to the example one in the Embedding and Extending docs. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https

[Python-Dev] Re: Debug C++

2020-03-30 Thread Rhodri James
mation. >>> from hub import hub Breakpoint 1, Hub_new (type=0x76236340 , args=(), kwds=0x0) at src/hubmodule.c:164 164 HubObject *self = (HubObject *)type->tp_alloc(type, 0); (gdb) ...and off you go! -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 618: Add Optional Length-Checking To zip

2020-05-10 Thread Rhodri James
variants even have. But zip_equals() is also another beast entirely; it takes on the responsibility of raising an exception, a problem neither of the other variants even have. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 618: Add Optional Length-Checking To zip

2020-05-15 Thread Rhodri James
would be weird if zip_longest doesn't get folded in eventually, which might push them (more) negative. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 616 -- String methods to remove prefixes and suffixes

2020-03-23 Thread Rhodri James
needs to know that the prefix wasn't there, cutprefix() probably wasn't the right thing to use anyway. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622: Structural Pattern Matching

2020-06-24 Thread Rhodri James
of patterns. There's no awkwardness about when is a name a value and when is it something to be bound, there's no proliferation of special cases, and it is pretty readable I think. It could be argued to be verbose, but terseness is not one of Python's objectives, and I think the consistency is worth i

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622: Structural Pattern Matching

2020-06-25 Thread Rhodri James
On 25/06/2020 15:42, Greg Ewing wrote: On 26/06/20 1:18 am, Rhodri James wrote: I will quickly and regularly forget that in this one place, "_" is special. You don't have to remember that it's special to understand what 'case _' does. Even if it were treated as an ordinary name

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622: Structural Pattern Matching

2020-06-25 Thread Rhodri James
On 25/06/2020 15:40, Tim Peters wrote: [Rhodri James ] See reply to Glenn. Can you give an example of a dotted name that is not a constant value pattern? An example of a non-dotted name that is? If you can't do either (and I cannot)), then that's simply what "if

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622: Structural Pattern Matching

2020-06-25 Thread Rhodri James
On 25/06/2020 16:48, Tim Peters wrote: [Tim] See reply to Glenn. Can you give an example of a dotted name that is not a constant value pattern? An example of a non-dotted name that is? If you can't do either (and I cannot)), then that's simply what "if [Rhodri James ]

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622: Structural Pattern Matching

2020-06-26 Thread Rhodri James
talking about types right at the start. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archi

[Python-Dev] Re: [Python-ideas] Re: Amend PEP-8 to require clear, understandable comments instead of Strunk & White Standard English comments

2020-06-29 Thread Rhodri James
by other reasonable people. I don't think you are being insensitive, I too found that commit message offensive. Personally I think equating standardised English -- specifically Strunk and White -- with racist supremacy is itself a racist remark which should not have been made. -- Rhodri James

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622: Structural Pattern Matching

2020-06-29 Thread Rhodri James
for that, Daniel. That's a very nice analysis that makes my own misgivings clearer and put some of them to rest. I think you are right that generalised destructuring is probably the thing to concentrate on; once we have something cohesive there, pattern syntax should become a lot more

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622: Structural Pattern Matching

2020-06-29 Thread Rhodri James
e like you who care about internationalisation presumably avoid using "_" anyway, so the PEP's usage goes against your current instincts. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email

[Python-Dev] Re: [Python-ideas] Re: Amend PEP-8 to require clear, understandable comments instead of Strunk & White Standard English comments

2020-06-29 Thread Rhodri James
it. (Yes, I'm allowed to get offended. I'm half Welsh, growing up on the English side of the border with an obviously Welsh name. I know all about language and racism, thank you very much.) -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list

[Python-Dev] Re: [Python-ideas] Re: Amend PEP-8 to require clear, understandable comments instead of Strunk & White Standard English comments

2020-06-29 Thread Rhodri James
in the PEPs repository (not just a PR, it's there, public, and effectively representing you and me) is a problem. That it's still there now is pretty unacceptable in my book. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622: Structural Pattern Matching -- followup

2020-06-25 Thread Rhodri James
onstruct a list. That argument works for name patterns, but not for class patterns. "Cls(x,y)" does not look like an assignment target at all. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622: Structural Pattern Matching

2020-06-25 Thread Rhodri James
't do either (and I cannot)), then that's simply what "if case long.chain.of.attributes: or more likely case (foo.x, foo.y) for the first. For the second, it's a no-brainer that you can't have a non-dotted name as a constant value pattern, since the current constant value pattern mandates

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

2020-07-02 Thread Rhodri James
f it that people have come up with over the years are worse, "he" will trigger people prone to seeing overarching patriarchalism, "she" will trigger people prone to seeing overarching feminism, and "they" will trigger p

[Python-Dev] Re: [Python-ideas] Re: Amend PEP-8 to require clear, understandable comments instead of Strunk & White Standard English comments

2020-06-30 Thread Rhodri James
in the repository. Do you see the difference? I really wish you hadn't brought up the master/slave debacle again. I may feel obliged to submit PRs to restore the accepted usage because, and I can't believe I have to keep saying this, *creating taboos only ever makes things worse.* -- Rhodri

[Python-Dev] Re: [Python-ideas] Re: Amend PEP-8 to require clear, understandable comments instead of Strunk & White Standard English comments

2020-06-30 Thread Rhodri James
are all useful to someone who intends to write much, though. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.pytho

[Python-Dev] Re: Flexible assignment targets

2020-07-01 Thread Rhodri James
of what's going on, even if the details take a bit more work. If you have to second-guess every assignment, much of that virtue is lost. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

2020-07-02 Thread Rhodri James
it was better to hide from students. It was in Latin classes that I learned how sentences are put together, and that's what I default to when I'm not thinking hard enough. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

2020-07-02 Thread Rhodri James
t singular "they" as perfectly appropriate. I don't like it personally, but I've only ever thought of RP (in my British parochialism) as trying to suppress it with any serious effort. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- p

[Python-Dev] Re: Plan to remove Py_UNICODE APis except PEP 623.

2020-06-30 Thread Rhodri James
API will need to be pretty comprehensive, though. (If you want nightmares, take a look at the parsing code in Expat. Multiple layers of macros and function tables make it a horror to comprehend.) -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing

[Python-Dev] Re: Plan to remove Py_UNICODE APis except PEP 623.

2020-06-30 Thread Rhodri James
in C. Using wchar_t was eventually rejected as infeasible. * Sorry, I had a Blues Brothers moment. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https

[Python-Dev] Re: [Python-ideas] Re: Amend PEP-8 to require clear, understandable comments instead of Strunk & White Standard English comments

2020-06-30 Thread Rhodri James
Good point. Duly done. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Messag

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

2020-06-30 Thread Rhodri James
and a Texan (I think, he was from somewhere Deep South) tried to communicate. They had to get a passing Dutchman to translate for them. (No joke, that really happened.) -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

2020-06-30 Thread Rhodri James
hem. And that's why I think the commit message in question should be amended ASAP. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/li

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

2020-06-30 Thread Rhodri James
. We (individually and collectively) may decide that their reasons don't hold water, but we should always listen. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622: Structural Pattern Matching -- followup

2020-07-08 Thread Rhodri James
hat "_" doesn't bind to the thing being matched, but "dummy" does bind to it. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 version 2 (Structural Pattern Matching)

2020-07-08 Thread Rhodri James
bullet point under "Alternatives for constant value pattern": https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0622/#id74 Basically it looks odd and we may need parentheses to manage grouping in patterns. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev ma

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 version 2 (Structural Pattern Matching)

2020-07-08 Thread Rhodri James
e it being a particularly big issue where it goes.) -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.or

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 version 2 (Structural Pattern Matching)

2020-07-08 Thread Rhodri James
On 08/07/2020 19:08, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 18:38:12 +0100 Rhodri James wrote: On 08/07/2020 16:02, Guido van Rossum wrote: Today I’m happy (and a little trepidatious) to announce the next version of PEP 622, Pattern Matching. Thank you very much to everyone who has been

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622: Structural Pattern Matching [was: PEP 622 railroaded through?]

2020-07-07 Thread Rhodri James
e into arguments about there preferably being only one obvious way to do things. I'd maintain that "else:" is obvious :-) -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 version 2 (Structural Pattern Matching)

2020-07-13 Thread Rhodri James
thought I could, but trying it out in the playground didn't work at all. :-( -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 version 2 (Structural Pattern Matching)

2020-07-13 Thread Rhodri James
On 13/07/2020 15:33, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 04:35 Rhodri James wrote: [Re: forbidding **_ in mapping patterns] I’d rather not. And the argument about disallowing obviously redundant syntax seems weak. My worry about allowing this is that it’ll be cargo culled

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

2020-07-02 Thread Rhodri James
references, so you will tend to write clearly and with common vocabulary. Just as Strunk and White would advise :-) -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change (Antoine Pitrou)

2020-07-03 Thread Rhodri James
t;brave decision" when he wants to point out consequences the minister won't like. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.py

[Python-Dev] Re: Flexible assignment targets

2020-07-03 Thread Rhodri James
try Point(x, y): ... try Rectangle(x0, y0, x1, y1, painted=True): ... I'm actually surprised at how much I like that. It certainly gets me out of the C mindset and makes it easier for me to recognise that Point(x,y) isn't an instantiation. -- Rhodri J

[Python-Dev] Re: Recent PEP-8 change

2020-07-05 Thread Rhodri James
ric it could be confusing. Yes, we'd have to call them Bruce to avoid confusion. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mai

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 version 2 (Structural Pattern Matching)

2020-07-12 Thread Rhodri James
other way around makes sense too. (I can't see how anyone likes the Linux case indentation style at all. It's horrible to read.) -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-d

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 version 2 (Structural Pattern Matching)

2020-07-12 Thread Rhodri James
) p1 = Point(x1, y1) case Polygon(p0, p1, p2): ... is very easy to miss. -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 version 2 (Structural Pattern Matching)

2020-07-16 Thread Rhodri James
atters and the like (such as Python-mode in Emacs) would curse your name, etc, etc. My apologies for being a Bear of Very Little Brain. Nah, don't apologise. This is one of those things that everyone has opinions on, because there doesn't seem to be an obvious Right Answer. -- Rhodri J

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 622 constant value syntax idea

2020-07-15 Thread Rhodri James
(And damn it, I've argued myself round to the position I was trying to argue Tim out of a few weeks ago. Curses!) -- Rhodri James *-* Kynesim Ltd ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.or