Re: [Python-Dev] Is msvcr71.dll re-redistributable?

2005-02-02 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Anders == Anders J Munch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anders Unless the EULA contains specific language to forbid such Anders multi-stage open-ended redistribution, I'd say you can Anders just re-redistribute away. Anders but-then-I-am-not-a-lawyer-ly y'rs, Anders I am not either,

Re: [Python-Dev] Unicode byte order mark decoding

2005-04-05 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
MAL == M [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: MAL The BOM (byte order mark) was a non-standard Microsoft MAL invention to detect Unicode text data as such (MS always uses MAL UTF-16-LE for Unicode text files). The Japanese memopado (Notepad) uses UTF-8 signatures; it even adds them to

Re: [Python-Dev] Unicode byte order mark decoding

2005-04-05 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Martin == Martin v Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Martin Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: However, this option should be part of the initialization of an IO stream which produces Unicodes, _not_ an operation on arbitrary internal strings (whether raw or Unicode). Martin

Re: [Python-Dev] Unicode byte order mark decoding

2005-04-06 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Walter == Walter Dörwald [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Walter Not really. In every encoding where a sequence of more Walter than one byte maps to one Unicode character, you will Walter always need some kind of buffering. If we remove the Walter handling of initial BOMs from the

Re: [Python-Dev] defmacro

2005-04-26 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Andrew == Andrew Koenig [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Andrew Wel Shouldn't you have written Andrew (mapcar car list-of-lists) Andrew or am I missing something painfully obvious? Greg should have written (with-file foo/blarg 'do-something-with) too. I guess I should

Re: [Python-Dev] Re: switch statement

2005-04-28 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Guido == Guido van Rossum [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Guido You mean like this? if x 0: ...normal case... elif y 0: abnormal case... else: ...edge case... The salient example! If it's no accident that those conditions are mutually exclusive and

Re: [Python-Dev] Thoughts on stdlib evolvement

2005-06-06 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Skip == Skip Montanaro [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Skip If you provide the necessary namespace structure for them to Skip nestle into, I suspect most of them could be maintained Skip outside the stdlib just fine. FWIW, this has worked well for XEmacs; it's one of our most popular

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP: Migrating the Python CVS to Subversion

2005-08-01 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
BAW == Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: BAW So are you saying that moving to svn will let us do more long BAW lived branches? Yay! Yes, but you still have to be disciplined about it. svn is not much better than cvs about detecting and ignoring spurious conflicts due to code that

Re: [Python-Dev] Pre-PEP: Exception Reorganization for Python 3.0

2005-08-01 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Willem == Willem Broekema [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Willem I hope the above makes the way I'm thinking more clear. Willem Like Phillip J. Eby, I think that labeling Willem KeyboardInterrupt a CriticalException seems wrong; it is Willem not an error and not critical. Uh,

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP: Migrating the Python CVS to Subversion

2005-08-01 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Donovan == Donovan Baarda [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Donovan Yeah. IMHO the sadest thing about SVN is it doesn't do Donovan branch/merge properly. All the other cool stuff like Donovan renames etc is kinda undone by that. [...] This is why Donovan I don't bother migrating any

Re: [Python-Dev] Pre-PEP: Exception Reorganization for Python 3.0

2005-08-02 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Phillip == Phillip J Eby [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Phillip You just said, Unhandled, KeyboardInterrupt means... Phillip If the program doesn't *want* to handle Phillip KeyboardInterrupt, then it obviously *isn't* critical, Phillip because it doesn't care. Conversely, if it

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP: Migrating the Python CVS to Subversion

2005-08-03 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
aahz == aahz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: aahz I'd rather not rely on licensing of a closed-source system; aahz one of the points made during the talk was that the Linux aahz project had to scramble when they lost their Bitkeeper aahz license Python is unlikely to throw away its

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP: Migrating the Python CVS to Subversion

2005-08-03 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
M == M.-A. Lemburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: M Other non-commercial alternatives are Berlios and Savannah, but M I'm not sure whether they'd offer Subversion support. Savannah doesn't offer great reliability or support, at least to judge by the frequency with which the GNU Emacs and GNU

Re: [Python-Dev] Generalised String Coercion

2005-08-08 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Martin == Martin v Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Martin I think your doubts are unfounded. Many Japanese people Martin change it to EUC-JP (I believe), as UTF-8 support doesn't Martin work well for them (or atleast didn't use to). If you mean the UTF-8 support in Terminal, it's no

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP: Migrating the Python CVS to Subversion

2005-08-08 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Donovan == Donovan Baarda [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Donovan It all comes down to how painless branch/merge is. Many Donovan esoteric features of version control systems feel like Donovan they are there to workaround the absence of proper Donovan branch/merge histories. It's not

Re: [Python-Dev] Generalised String Coercion

2005-08-08 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Martin == Martin v Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Martin While this would work, it would still feel wrong: the Martin binary data are *not* latin1 (most likely), so declaring Martin them to be latin1 would be confusing. Perhaps a synonym Martin '8bit' for latin1 could be

Re: [Python-Dev] Collecting SSH keys

2005-08-22 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Martin == Martin v Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Martin I don't know how this scales in OpenSSH having an Martin authorized_keys file with hundred or more keys. On cvs.xemacs.org (aka SunSITE.dk) ssh+cvs access with cvs access control being handled by a Perl script scales to

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] python/dist/src setup.py, 1.219, 1.220

2005-08-28 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Martin == Martin v Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Martin Raymond Hettinger wrote: Do you have an ANSI-strict option with your compiler? Martin gcc does have an option to force c89 compliance, but there Martin is a good chance that Python stops compiling with option:

Re: [Python-Dev] partition()

2005-08-29 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Raymond == Raymond Hettinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Raymond FWIW, I am VERY happy with the name partition(). Raymond ... [I]t is exactly the right word. I won't part with it Raymond easily. +1 I note that Emacs has a split-string function which does not have those happy

Re: [Python-Dev] Proof of the pudding: str.partition()

2005-08-31 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Greg == Greg Ewing [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Greg Er, pardon? I don't think I've ever heard 'piece' used as a Greg verb in English. Can you supply an example sentence? I'll let the reader piece it together. More closely related, I've heard/seen piece out used for task allocation (from

Re: [Python-Dev] Revising RE docs

2005-08-31 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Greg == Greg Ewing [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Greg Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: But you could have string objects (or a derivative) grow a compiled_regexp attribute internally. Greg That would make the core dependent on the re module, which I Greg think would be a bad idea

Re: [Python-Dev] String views

2005-09-01 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Steve == Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Steve Since Python strings *can* contain embedded NULs, doesn't Steve that rather poo on the idea of passing pointers to their Steve data to C functions as things stand? I think it's a consenting adults issue. Ie, C programmers always

Re: [Python-Dev] Replacement for print in Python 3.0

2005-09-06 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Guido == Guido van Rossum [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Guido I'm not at all convinced that we should attempt to find a Guido solution that handles both use cases [print replacement Guido and i18n]; most Python code never needs i18n. It's true that the majority of Python applications

Re: [Python-Dev] Replacement for print in Python 3.0

2005-09-07 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Guido == Guido van Rossum [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Guido Sure, we must provide good i18n support. But the burden on Guido users who don't need i18n should be negligeable; they Guido shouldn't have to type or know extra stuff that only exists Guido for the needs of i18n. Agreed.

Re: [Python-Dev] Replacement for print in Python 3.0

2005-09-08 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Guido == Guido van Rossum [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Guido I certainly didn't mean to rule that out. Speaking for myself, that's all I really wanted to hear at this time. As Bob Ippolito said, currently it's straightforward to internationalize an application, and well worth the minimal

Re: [Python-Dev] Replacement for print in Python 3.0

2005-09-09 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Greg == Greg Ewing [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Greg Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: IMO strings that are being printf'd can probably be assumed to be human readable, and therefore candidates for translation. This Greg That's a dangerous assumption to make, I think. Could

Re: [Python-Dev] unifying str and unicode

2005-10-06 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
M == M.-A. Lemburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: M From what I've read on the web about the Python Unicode M implementation we have one of the better ones compared to other M languages implementations and their choices and design M decisions. Yes, indeed!

Re: [Python-Dev] Event loops, PyOS_InputHook, and Tkinter

2005-11-09 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Michiel == Michiel Jan Laurens de Hoon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michiel What is the advantage of Tk in comparison to other GUI Michiel toolkits? IMO, Tk's _advantage_ is that it's there already. As a standard component, it works well for typical simple GUI applications (thus

Re: [Python-Dev] LaTeX and Python doc contributions

2005-12-22 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Fred == Fred L Drake, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Fred On Thursday 22 December 2005 13:23, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who is asking this of potential contributors? I know you, Aahz and I have repeatedly told people on c.l.py that LaTeX knowledge is not necessary. Plain text is

Re: [Python-Dev] a quit that actually quits

2005-12-28 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Martin == Martin v Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Martin That would assume that the user knows that exit is a Martin function: apparently, people expect it to be a statement Martin (like print), Oh, the irony of that analogy!wink Martin or they are entirely unaware of the

Re: [Python-Dev] a quit that actually quits

2005-12-29 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Nick == Nick Coghlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Nick Samuele Pedroni wrote: It's not a matter of defending the status quo, more about what kind of price is reasonable for DWIM. IMHO, +N*10^6 for simplicity, regularity, and discoverability, -1 for DWIM in the interpreter. DWIM is

Re: [Python-Dev] buildbot

2006-01-03 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
skip == skip [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bob The easy fix is to upgrade your OS. I don't think anyone is going Bob to bother with the preprocessor hackery necessary to make that Bob (harmless) warning go away on older versions of the OS. skip Excuse me, but this really pisses me

Re: [Python-Dev] buildbot

2006-01-04 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Martin == Martin v Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Martin It *is* a bug for Python to emit warnings on major Martin platforms (PEP 7). OK, I'm as big a standards bigot as the next guy, you hooked me. After some consideration, I can't write the patch, though. I'm sorry that all I can

Re: [Python-Dev] Checking in a broken test was: Re: [Python-checkins]r41940 - python/trunk/Lib/test/test_compiler.py

2006-01-11 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Fredrik == Fredrik Lundh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Fredrik many test frameworks support expected failures for this Fredrik purpose. how hard would it be to add a Fredrik unittest.FailingTestCase Fredrik class that runs a TestCase, catches any errors in it, and Fredrik

Re: [Python-Dev] Building on OS X 10.4 fails

2006-01-17 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Anthony == Anthony Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anthony It sounds like configure needs to grow a test to detect Anthony that a libreadline it finds is actually the crackful Anthony libedit and refuse to use it if so. FYI: Real libreadline is GPL, and rms made a point of forcing

Re: [Python-Dev] Building on OS X 10.4 fails

2006-01-18 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Anthony == Anthony Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anthony Python's license is GPL-compatible, so this isn't an Anthony issue. I'm sorry, but you seem to misunderstand what GPL compatibility means. It is a _one-way_ street. A license is GPL-compatible if its terms permit the code it

Re: [Python-Dev] str with base

2006-01-20 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
BAW == Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: BAW Unix weenies shouldn't be totally forgotten in P3K. Great idea! Put all this stuff in a weenie module. You can have weenie.unix and weenie.vms and weenie.unicode, besides the weenie.math that got all this started. -- School of Systems

Re: [Python-Dev] / as path join operator

2006-01-25 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Steven == Steven Bethard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Steven My only fear with the / operator is that we'll end up with Steven the same problems we have for using % in string formatting Steven -- the order of operations might not be what users expect. Besides STeVe's example, (1) I

Re: [Python-Dev] DRAFT: python-dev Summary for 2006-01-01 through 2006-01-15

2006-01-27 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Thomas == Thomas Heller [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thomas I cannot uinderstand your reasoning. How can 'info Thomas autoconf' incluence the license of the aclocal.m4 file? It doesn't. The point is the documentation explains that all of the other files are _part of autoconf_, and come

Re: [Python-Dev] / as path join operator

2006-01-27 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Jason == Jason Orendorff [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jason I. Here's an example of the sort of thing you might say if Jason you did *not* think of paths as strings: [...] Jason II. And here is the sort of thing you'd say if you thought Jason of paths *solely* as strings: Please

Re: [Python-Dev] DRAFT: python-dev Summary for 2006-01-01 through 2006-01-15

2006-01-29 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Martin == Martin v Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: BTW. The argument that the readline module should be GPL licensed seems rather stronger, it's designed to work with a GPL-ed library and doesn't work with a BSD licensed work-alike of that library. Martin This is the

Re: [Python-Dev] DRAFT: python-dev Summary for 2006-01-01 through 2006-01-15

2006-01-29 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Martin == Martin v Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Martin So would you just like to see the readline module to be Martin removed from the Python distribution? No. I would much prefer that the readline module be made compatible with libedit (or whatever the pseudo-readline library is

Re: [Python-Dev] DRAFT: python-dev Summary for 2006-01-01 through 2006-01-15

2006-01-30 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Tim == Tim Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tim [Martin v. Löwis] Also, I firmly believe that the FSF would *not* sue the PSF, but instead first ask that the status is corrected. They would ask first. That's what they did in the case of Aladdin Ghostscript's use of readline.

Re: [Python-Dev] DRAFT: python-dev Summary for 2006-01-01 through 2006-01-15

2006-01-31 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Tim == Tim Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tim I'm not making myself clear. Whatever makes you think that?wink In fact, everything you've said about your criteria for behavior was quite clear from the first, and it was fairly easy to infer your beliefs about the implications of history. I

Re: [Python-Dev] / as path join operator

2006-01-31 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Jason == Jason Orendorff [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jason You seem to think that because I said operating systems, Jason I'm talking about kernel algorithms and such. I can see how you'd get that impression, but it's not true. My reason for mentioning OS-level filesystem was to show

Re: [Python-Dev] Help with Unicode arrays in NumPy

2006-02-07 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Travis == Travis E Oliphant [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Travis Numpy supports arrays of arbitrary fixed-length records. Travis It is much more than numeric-only data now. One of the Travis fields that a record can contain is a string. If strings Travis are supported, it makes

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP for adding an sq_index slot so that any object, a or b, can be used in X[a:b] notation

2006-02-09 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Brett == Brett Cannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Brett On 2/9/06, Barry Warsaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe we can amend your rules to those people who both have commit privileges and have successfully submitted a PEP before. PEP virgins should go through the normal process.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 332 revival in coordination with pep 349? [ Was:Re: release plan for 2.5 ?]

2006-02-15 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
M == M.-A. Lemburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: M James Y Knight wrote: Nice and simple. M Albeit, too simple. M The above approach would basically remove the possibility to M easily create bytes() from literals in Py3k, since literals in M Py3k create Unicode objects,

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes type discussion

2006-02-15 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Fred == Fred L Drake, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Fred On Tuesday 14 February 2006 22:34, Greg Ewing wrote: Seems to me this is a case where you want to be able to change encodings in the middle of reading the stream. You start off reading the data as ascii, and once you've

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes type discussion

2006-02-17 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Guido == Guido van Rossum [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Guido I think that the implementation of encoding-guessing or Guido auto-encoding-upgrade techniques should be left out of the Guido standard library design for now. As far as I can see, little new design is needed. There's no

Re: [Python-Dev] bdist_* to stdlib?

2006-02-17 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Bob == Bob Ippolito [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bob Huh? What does that have to do with anything? I've never Bob seen a system where /usr/include, /usr/lib, /usr/bin, Bob etc. are not all on the same mount. It's not really any Bob different with OS X either. /usr/share often is

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-02-17 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Guido == Guido van Rossum [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Guido I'd say there are two symmetric API flavors possible (t Guido and b are text and bytes objects, respectively, where text Guido is a string type, either str or unicode; enc is an encoding Guido name): Guido -

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-02-19 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Ian == Ian Bicking [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ian Encodings cover up eclectic interfaces, where those Ian interfaces fit a basic pattern -- data in, data out. Isn't filter the word you're looking for? I think you've just made a very strong case that this is a slippery slope that we

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-02-19 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
M == M.-A. Lemburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: M Martin v. Löwis wrote: No. The reason to ban string.decode and bytes.encode is that it confuses users. M Instead of starting to ban everything that can potentially M confuse a few users, we should educate those users and tell

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-02-19 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
M == M.-A. Lemburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: M The main reason is symmetry and the fact that strings and M Unicode should be as similar as possible in order to simplify M the task of moving from one to the other. Those are perfectly compatible with Martin's suggestion. M Still,

Re: [Python-Dev] bdist_* to stdlib?

2006-02-19 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Guido == Guido van Rossum [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Guido On 2/16/06, Stephen J. Turnbull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: /usr/share often is on a different mount; that's the whole rationale for /usr/share. Guido I don't think I've worked at a place where something like Guido

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-02-19 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Josiah == Josiah Carlson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Josiah The question remains: is str.decode() returning a string Josiah or unicode depending on the argument passed, when the Josiah argument quite literally names the codec involved, Josiah difficult to understand? I don't

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-02-19 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Bob == Bob Ippolito [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bob On Feb 17, 2006, at 8:33 PM, Josiah Carlson wrote: But you aren't always getting *unicode* text from the decoding of bytes, and you may be encoding bytes *to* bytes: Please note that I presumed that you can indeed assume that

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-02-19 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Bengt == Bengt Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bengt The characters in b could be encoded in plain ascii, or Bengt utf16le, you have to know. Which base64 are you thinking about? Both RFC 3548 and RFC 2045 (MIME) specify subsets of US-ASCII explicitly. -- School of Systems and

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-02-20 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Martin == Martin v Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Martin Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Bengt The characters in b could be encoded in plain ascii, or Bengt utf16le, you have to know. Which base64 are you thinking about? Both RFC 3548 and RFC 2045 (MIME) specify subsets

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-02-20 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Josiah == Josiah Carlson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Josiah I try to internalize it by not thinking of strings as Josiah encoded data, but as binary data, and unicode as text. I Josiah then remind myself that unicode isn't native on-disk or Josiah cross-network (which stores and

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-02-20 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Martin == Martin v Löwis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Martin Please do take a look. It is the only way: If you were to Martin embed base64 *bytes* into character data content of an XML Martin element, the resulting XML file might not be well-formed Martin anymore (if the encoding of

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-02-22 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Greg == Greg Ewing [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Greg Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: What I advocate for Python is to require that the standard base64 codec be defined only on bytes, and always produce bytes. Greg I don't understand that. It seems quite clear to me that Greg

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-02-22 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Greg == Greg Ewing [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Greg Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Base64 is a (family of) wire protocol(s). It's not clear to me that it makes sense to say that the alphabets used by baseNN encodings are composed of characters, Greg Take a look

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-02-22 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Ron == Ron Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ron Terry Reedy wrote: I prefer the shorter names and using recode, for instance, for bytes to bytes. Ron While I prefer constructors with an explicit encode argument, Ron and use a recode() method for 'like to like' coding.

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-02-24 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Ron == Ron Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ron We could call it transform or translate if needed. You're still losing the directionality, which is my primary objection to recode. The absence of directionality is precisely why recode is used in that sense for i18n work. There really isn't a

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-02-24 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Greg == Greg Ewing [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Greg Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: No, base64 isn't a wire protocol. It's a family[...]. Greg Yes, and it's up to the programmer to choose those code Greg units (i.e. pick an encoding for the characters) that will, Greg in fact

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-02-25 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Ron == Ron Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ron So, lets consider a codec and a coding as being two Ron different things where a codec is a character sub set of Ron unicode characters expressed in a native format. And a Ron coding is *not* a subset of the unicode character set,

Re: [Python-Dev] bytes.from_hex()

2006-03-02 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Greg == Greg Ewing [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Greg (BTW, doesn't the fact that you *can* load an XML file into Greg what we call a text editor say something?) Why not answer that question for yourself, and then turn that answer into a description of text semantics? For me, it says that,

Re: [Python-Dev] C++ for CPython 3? (Re: str.count is slow)

2006-03-03 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
martin == martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: martin I don't understand. How can you use a C++ compiler, but martin not the C++ language? An abbreviation for those features that aren't in C. martin As the recent const dilemma shows, C99 and C++98 have, martin unfortunately,

Re: [Python-Dev] C++ for CPython 3? (Re: str.count is slow)

2006-03-06 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Anthony == Anthony Baxter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anthony It's probably worth mentioning that right now, we don't Anthony even come close to compiling with a C++ compiler. A bunch Anthony of the bugs are shallow (casting result from malloc, that Anthony sort of thing) but a

Re: [Python-Dev] Results of the SOC projects

2006-11-16 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Brett Cannon writes: There was never a formal one to my knowledge. Part of the problem is that the PSF acted as a blanket organization this year so we just basically helped dole out slots to various Python projects. This meant it was not under very centralized control and thus not easy

Re: [Python-Dev] Py_ssize_t

2007-02-20 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Raymond Hettinger writes: Two people had some difficulty building non-upgraded third-party modules with Py2.5 on 64-bit machines (I think wxPython was one of the problems) In my experience wxPython is problematic, period. It's extremely tightly bound to internal details of everything around

Re: [Python-Dev] bool conversion wart?

2007-02-22 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Neal Becker writes: Well consider this: str (4) '4' int(str (4)) 4 str (False) 'False' bool(str(False)) True Doesn't this seem a bit inconsisent? The former case is a *conversion* from an expression that *does not* have an interpretation in a numerical context to an

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

2007-03-05 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Giovanni Bajo writes: On 05/03/2007 20.30, Phil Thompson wrote: 1. Don't suggest to people that, in order to get their patch reviewed, they should review other patches. The level of knowledge required to put together a patch is much less than that required to know if a patch is the

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

2007-03-05 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Giovanni Bajo writes: On 05/03/2007 19.46, A.M. Kuchling wrote: At PyCon, there was general agreement that exposing a read-only Bazaar/Mercurial/git/whatever version of the repository wouldn't be too much effort, and might make things easier for external people developing

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

2007-03-06 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Phil Thompson writes: MvL wrote: I doubt this will help. Much of the code isn't owned by anybody specifically. Those parts that are owned typically find their patches reviewed and committed quickly (e.g. the tar file module, maintained by Lars Gustäbel). Doesn't your last

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

2007-03-06 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Martin v. Löwis writes: Stephen J. Turnbull schrieb: Second, where the stdlib module is closely bound to the core, the maintainer ends up being the group of core developers. It can't be any other way, it seems to me. It might be that individuals get designated maintainers: Guido

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

2007-03-06 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
George Brandl writes: As far as I recall, there has been nearly no one who asked for commit rights recently, so why complain that the entry barrier is too great? Surely you cannot expect python-dev to got out and say would you like to have commit privileges?... Why not? It depends on

Re: [Python-Dev] Encouraging developers

2007-03-08 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Josiah Carlson writes: And the best way to encourage someone to maintain a package is... accepting their patches. And that's what I think is bull. Whether or not we want or need maintainers for module or package X is independant of the fact that user Y has submitted a patch for

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-16 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Paul Moore writes: On 16/03/07, Phillip J. Eby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's *actually* under dispute here is whether it's acceptable to classify this perfectly useful-as-is behavior, that was documented and tested in released versions of Python for several years (with patches to

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposal to revert r54204 (splitext change)

2007-03-16 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Martin v. Löwis writes: Phillip J. Eby schrieb: Some other options: 1. Deprecate splitext() and remove it in 3.0 How would that help the problem? Isn't it useful to have a function that strips off the extension? No. It's useful to have a function that performs a

Re: [Python-Dev] A Survey on Defect Management Practices in Free/Open Source Software

2007-04-04 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Anthony Baxter writes: Just a random aside - is anyone else getting increasingly annoyed by these mass-mailed out survey requests from students? Annoyed, not particularly. Scared, yes: it's long been known that a field=FIELD is moribund when people start getting PhDs in FIELD for

Re: [Python-Dev] Summaries and the New Lists

2007-04-24 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Brett Cannon writes: All in one is fine. Just be *very* wary of getting burned out. I especially would watch out for python-ideas as any random idea can end up there and just go on and on with no resolution. As basically a lurker, I second that -- these summaries (and the weekly tracker

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] PEP 30XZ: Simplified Parsing

2007-05-03 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Barry Warsaw writes: The problem is that _(some string and more of it) is not the same as _(some string + and more of it) Are you worried about translators? The gettext functions themselves will just see the result of the operation. The extraction

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] PEP 30XZ: Simplified Parsing

2007-05-03 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Barry Warsaw writes: IMO, this is a problem. We can make the Python extraction tool work, but we should still be very careful about breaking 3rd party tools like xgettext, since other projects may be using such tools. But _(some string + and more of it) is already

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-3000] PEP 30XZ: Simplified Parsing

2007-05-03 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Michael Sparks writes: We generate our component documentation based on going through the AST generated by compiler.ast, finding doc strings (and other strings in other known/expected locations), and then formatting using docutils. Are you talking about I18N and gettext? If so, I'm really

Re: [Python-Dev] Official version support statement

2007-05-11 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Martin v. Löwis writes: However, I would prefer to not use the verb support at all. We (the PSF) don't provide any technical support for *any* version ever released: '''PSF is making Python available to Licensee on an AS IS basis. PSF MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES [...].''' Of

Re: [Python-Dev] Official version support statement

2007-05-12 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Terry Reedy writes: This strikes me as an improvement, but 'maintain' is close to 'support' and seems to make a promise that might also have unintended legal consequences. But that is what your legal consel is for. Unilateral statements on a web page do not constitute a contract. Implied

Re: [Python-Dev] Official version support statement

2007-05-12 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Martin v. Löwis writes: I'm all in favor of formalizing a policy of when Python releases are produced, and what Python releases, and what kinds of changes they may contain. However, such a policy should be addressed primarily to contributors, as a guidance, not to users, as a promise.

[Python-Dev] Draft PEP: Maintenance of Python Releases

2007-05-12 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Martin v. Löwis writes: A security fix must not risk the releasability of the branch, i.e. the maintenance branch should be in a shape to produce a release out of it as-is at all times. [...] Security releases should be made at most one year after a security patch has been committed

Re: [Python-Dev] Official version support statement

2007-05-12 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Terry Reedy writes: Stephen J. Turnbull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | The impression that many people (including python-dev regulars) have | that there is a policy of support for both the current release | (2.5) and the (still very widely used) previous

Re: [Python-Dev] Draft PEP: Maintenance of Python Releases

2007-05-14 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Martin v. Löwis writes: The objective is to reduce load for the release manager. Any kind of release that is worth anything takes several hours to produce, in my experience (if it could be made completely automatic, it wouldn't be good, since glitches would not be detected). I absolutely

Re: [Python-Dev] Draft PEP: Maintenance of Python Releases

2007-05-14 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Martin v. Löwis writes: In general, I recognize the burden on the release engineer, and obviously any burdensome policy needs his OK. But I think the policy should be *effective* too, and I just don't see that a policy that allows such long lags is a more effective security response

Re: [Python-Dev] Summary of Tracker Issues

2007-05-15 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The orb that shines in the sky during the day. Martin This question I could not answer, because I don't know what an Martin orb is (it's not an object request broker, right?) Martin Is the answer sun? It is indeed. I would use

Re: [Python-Dev] Summary of Tracker Issues

2007-05-16 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Georg Brandl writes: By requesting a registration form over and over, and recording all questions. A human would then answer them, which is easily done for 50 questions (provided that they are *not* targeted at experienced Python programmers, which shouldn't be done). We are not going to

Re: [Python-Dev] Summary of Tracker Issues

2007-05-16 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Aaron Brady writes: ISTM you need one only question requiring human attention at a time, because once a spammer assigns a human (or inhuman of equivalent intelligence) to cracking you, you're toast. I can't believe this is still profitable. It's either lucrative or fulfilling,

Re: [Python-Dev] Summary of Tracker Issues

2007-05-18 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
O.R.Senthil Kumaran writes: :-) My idea was, a human got to answer it unscrambled as 'fourth' as he understands what the question is and gives the proper answer. Agreed, there could be confusion at first. But for any given user, there's only going to be a first. Either they pass the

Re: [Python-Dev] Summary of Tracker Issues

2007-05-18 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Terry Reedy writes: Why not simply embargo any post with an off-site link? Tho there might have been some, I can't remember a single example of such at SF. Fine by me; if it doesn't happen often, then embargoing them would be fine. My occasional experience with distro reporting processes

Re: [Python-Dev] The docs, reloaded

2007-05-21 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Neal Becker writes: Perhaps my comment was misunderstood. I have no objection to a new system, and it does not have to be based on latex. I just hope there will be some escape mechanism that allows math. Docutils already provides the raw directive. I don't know if the latex backend

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