Re: [Python-Dev] Is msvcr71.dll re-redistributable?
On 3 Feb 2005, at 02:01, Phillip J. Eby wrote: Sounds like this puts all Python users in the clear, since Python is the Licensee Software in that case. So, anybody can distribute msvcr71 as part of Python. OTOH, the other wording sounds like Python itself has to have a click-wrap, tear-open, or signature EULA! IOW, the EULA appears to prohibit free distribution of the runtime with a program that has no EULA. So, in an amusing turn of events, the EULA actually appears to forbid the current offering of Python for Windows, since it does not have such a EULA. That was also my conclusion last year:-( But at least Python can still be distributed without msvcr71, putting the burden of obtaining it on the end user, because of Python's license. In another project we're using GPL, and careful reading (disclaimer: IANAL) has not convinced me that GPL and the EULA are compatible. Actually, I have this vague feeling that the MSVC 7 EULA (plus the fact that MS isn't shipping msvcr71.dll with Windows) might have been drafted specifically to be incompatible with the clause in GPL that doesn't allow you to link against third party libraries unless they're part of the OS. What we've done in that project is link with msvcr71.dll, but not include it in the installer. I think that we could (theoretically) still be dragged into court by the FSF, but at least not by Microsoft. -- Jack Jansen, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Is msvcr71.dll re-redistributable?
Anders == Anders J Munch [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anders Unless the EULA contains specific language to forbid such Anders multi-stage open-ended redistribution, I'd say you can Anders just re-redistribute away. Anders but-then-I-am-not-a-lawyer-ly y'rs, Anders I am not either, but in matters like this it works the other way around: all rights not _explicitly_ granted are reserved. Somebody had better ask a real lawyer; in theory, you could be putting downstream users who share with their friends at risk. -- Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of TsukubaTennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Ask not how you can do free software business; ask what your business can do for free software. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Is msvcr71.dll re-redistributable?
Anders J. Munch: 1. John X. Programmer buys the product, agrees to the EULA and puts the DLL up for download, with the explicit and stated intent of distributing it to anyone who needs it. Disallowed in 3.1(a): # you agree: ... to distribute the Redistributables only ... in # conjunction with and as a part of a software application # product developed by you that adds significant and primary # functionality to the Redistributables Unless the EULA contains specific language to forbid such multi-stage open-ended redistribution, I'd say you can just re-redistribute away. Lawyers think like lawyers much better than developers do. Neil ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Is msvcr71.dll re-redistributable?
Neil Hodgson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anders J. Munch: 1. John X. Programmer buys the product, agrees to the EULA and puts the DLL up for download, with the explicit and stated intent of distributing it to anyone who needs it. Disallowed in 3.1(a): # you agree: ... to distribute the Redistributables only ... in # conjunction with and as a part of a software application # product developed by you that adds significant and primary # functionality to the Redistributables All this pretty much subsumes what I was thinking. The only question that remains is: why are there some sites like http://www.dll-files.com/ which offer this and other MS dlls for download? For the spambayes binary, maybe there should be another person adding the msvcr71.dll to the distribution that Tony builds? Someone who has a MSVC license, and also is developer on the spambayes project? Thomas ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
RE: [Python-Dev] Is msvcr71.dll re-redistributable?
[Thomas Heller] For the spambayes binary, maybe there should be another person adding the msvcr71.dll to the distribution that Tony builds? Someone who has a MSVC license, and also is developer on the spambayes project? [Tim Peters] To the best of my knowledge, Tony is distributing my duly licensed copy of msvcr71.dll with spambayes. And so long as I remain totally ignorant of what Tony actually does, that will remain my best knowledge. Win-win wink. That solves the specific SpamBayes problem. It still seems like this is somewhat of a PITA for people wanting to build frozen Windows apps with Python 2.4, though. OTOH, I can't personally think of anything (apart from the it'll-never-fly go back to VC6 solution or the bound-to-be-terrible static linking solution) that the Python developers can do about it. (Well, there's that chap from Microsoft at PyCon, right? How about one of you convince him to convince Microsoft to give all Python developers a licence to redistribute msvcr71.dll? wink). BTW, this bit of the EULA isn't great: (iii) to distribute the Licensee Software containing the Redistributables pursuant to an end user license agreement (which may be break-the-seal, click-wrap or signed), with terms no less protective than those contained in this EULA; The PSF licence is probably somewhat less protective than that one. I suppose the PSF licence really applies to the source, though, and not the built binary. Or something like that :) (Users giving the software directly to someone else, rather than downloading from the official site, is probably covered by: You also agree not to permit further distribution of the Redistributables by your end users except you may permit further redistribution of the Redistributables by your distributors to your end-user customers if your distributors only distribute the Redistributables in conjunction with, and as part of, the Licensee Software and you and your distributors comply with all other terms of this EULA. Where the users become our redistributors.) =Tony.Meyer ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
RE: [Python-Dev] Is msvcr71.dll re-redistributable?
At 01:23 PM 2/3/05 +1300, Tony Meyer wrote: (Users giving the software directly to someone else, rather than downloading from the official site, is probably covered by: You also agree not to permit further distribution of the Redistributables by your end users except you may permit further redistribution of the Redistributables by your distributors to your end-user customers if your distributors only distribute the Redistributables in conjunction with, and as part of, the Licensee Software and you and your distributors comply with all other terms of this EULA. Where the users become our redistributors.) Sounds like this puts all Python users in the clear, since Python is the Licensee Software in that case. So, anybody can distribute msvcr71 as part of Python. OTOH, the other wording sounds like Python itself has to have a click-wrap, tear-open, or signature EULA! IOW, the EULA appears to prohibit free distribution of the runtime with a program that has no EULA. So, in an amusing turn of events, the EULA actually appears to forbid the current offering of Python for Windows, since it does not have such a EULA. This is a much bigger worry than the original question. If we're actually allowed to distribute Python with the runtime at all, then py2exe and such are perfectly safe, since it's in conjunction with permitted redistribution. If distribution of the runtime is not allowed, on the other hand, then use of MSVC 7 for Python becomes altogether impossible without adding some kind of click-wrap licensing scheme. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Is msvcr71.dll re-redistributable?
Thomas Heller wrote: The 2.4 python.org installer installs msvcr71.dll on the target system. If someone uses py2exe or a similar tool to create a frozen application, is he allowed to redistribute this msvcr71.dll to other users together with his application or not, even if he doesn't own MSVC? According to the EULA, you may distribute anything listed in redist.txt: 2.2 Redistributable Code-General. Microsoft grants you a nonexclusive, royalty-free right to reproduce and distribute the object code form of any portion of the Software listed in REDIST.TXT (Redistributable Code). For general redistribution requirements for Redistributable Code, see Section 3.1, below. So the right to distribute is coupled to the a) the EULA and b) redist.txt. (As a side note, the Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003 for example contains NO redistributables per redist.txt). In the case of not owning a compiler at all, chances seem pretty slim you have any rights to distribute anything. -- Vincent Wehren This was asked on the py2exe users list, but I could not answer this question. Googling for msvcr71.dll finds some site which offer to download it, and they pretend that they are not violating any license, but I wasn't able to find definite words from MS about that. Thanks, Thomas ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/vwehren%40home.nl ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
