[Python-ideas] Suggest having a mechanism to distinguish import sources

2019-11-07 Thread Steve Barnes
Hi, I hope that his hasn't been discussed to death in the past but I quite often encounter cases where developers have unwittingly created a file or directory that has a name clash with either a system import or a pip installed library import. This can be very confusing to new users! And, of co

[Python-ideas] Re: Python should take a lesson from APL: Walrus operator not needed

2019-11-07 Thread Chris Angelico
On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 11:16 AM Andrew Barnert via Python-ideas wrote: > > On Nov 7, 2019, at 19:59, Chris Angelico wrote: > > > > And I do the same with the operators that you disparagingly call > > "ASCII soup". I touch type them. What's the difference, other than > > that I can transfer my kno

[Python-ideas] Re: Python should take a lesson from APL: Walrus operator not needed

2019-11-07 Thread Andrew Barnert via Python-ideas
On Nov 7, 2019, at 19:59, Chris Angelico wrote: > > And I do the same with the operators that you disparagingly call > "ASCII soup". I touch type them. What's the difference, other than > that I can transfer my knowledge of typing English? Well, there’s also the fact that you can touch type them

[Python-ideas] Re: Python should take a lesson from APL: Walrus operator not needed

2019-11-07 Thread Greg Ewing
Abe Dillon wrote: I don't disagree that infix notation is more readable because humans have trouble balancing brackets visually. I don't think it's just about brackets, it's more about keeping related things together. An expression such as b**2 - 4*a*c can be written unambiguously without

[Python-ideas] Re: Python should take a lesson from APL: Walrus operator not needed

2019-11-07 Thread Andrew Barnert via Python-ideas
On Nov 7, 2019, at 22:35, MRAB wrote: >> > There was a version of APL on the Sinclair QL, which, IIRC, replaced the > symbols with keywords. I don't know how well it did. The OP started the thread complaining about J, which is a much more systematic ASCIIfication of APL carefully designed by h

[Python-ideas] Re: Python should take a lesson from APL: Walrus operator not needed

2019-11-07 Thread MRAB
On 2019-11-07 20:30, Paul Moore wrote: On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 at 18:59, Chris Angelico wrote: On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 5:40 AM Martin Euredjian via Python-ideas wrote: > > > Was your use of APL on a machine with a dedicated APL keyboard? > > I've done both. In the early '80's it was not uncommon t

[Python-ideas] Re: Python should take a lesson from APL: Walrus operator not needed

2019-11-07 Thread Paul Moore
On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 at 18:59, Chris Angelico wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 5:40 AM Martin Euredjian via Python-ideas > wrote: > > > > > Was your use of APL on a machine with a dedicated APL keyboard? > > > > I've done both. In the early '80's it was not uncommon to find terminals > > with AP

[Python-ideas] Re: Python should take a lesson from APL: Walrus operator not needed

2019-11-07 Thread Abe Dillon
> > > Why not use a more consistent notation like add(x, y) instead of x + > > y when we know addition is a function and all other functions (usually) > > follow the f(x, y) notation? > > Because math is old. > No, it's because infix notation is *more readable* than function > notation when formula

[Python-ideas] Re: Python should take a lesson from APL: Walrus operator not needed

2019-11-07 Thread Chris Angelico
On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 5:40 AM Martin Euredjian via Python-ideas wrote: > > > Was your use of APL on a machine with a dedicated APL keyboard? > > I've done both. In the early '80's it was not uncommon to find terminals > with APL keyboards. IBM, DEC, Tektronix and other made them. Once the IBM

[Python-ideas] Re: Python should take a lesson from APL: Walrus operator not needed

2019-11-07 Thread Martin Euredjian via Python-ideas
> Was your use of APL on a machine with a dedicated APL keyboard? I've done both.  In the early '80's it was not uncommon to find terminals with APL keyboards.  IBM, DEC, Tektronix and other made them.  Once the IBM PC era took hold most of APL was done with either a card you'd place in front of

[Python-ideas] Re: Python should take a lesson from APL: Walrus operator not needed

2019-11-07 Thread Paul Moore
On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 at 00:16, Martin Euredjian via Python-ideas wrote: > Sorry, notation is far more powerful. As I said in one of my other notes, > people who have not had the unique experience of using something like APL for > non-trivial development work simply don't get it. Was your use of