Re: [Python-ideas] Non-ASCII in Python syntax? [was: Null coalescing operator]

2016-10-31 Thread David Mertz
My vim configuration for a year or two has looked something like this (the screenshot doesn't show the empty set symbol, but that's part of my conceal configuration: http://gnosis.cx/bin/.vim/after/syntax/python.vim). On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 7:13 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Mon, Oct 31, 2016

Re: [Python-ideas] Non-ASCII in Python syntax? [was: Null coalescing operator]

2016-10-31 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Sun, Oct 30, 2016 at 10:16:19AM -0700, David Mertz wrote: > My vim configuration for a year or two has looked something like this (the > screenshot doesn't show the empty set symbol, but that's part of my conceal > configuration: http://gnosis.cx/bin/.vim/after/syntax/python.vim). Oh nice! By

Re: [Python-ideas] Non-ASCII in Python syntax? [was: Null coalescing operator]

2016-10-31 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 10:19:58AM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Steven D'Aprano writes: > > > I see that Perl is leading the way here, supporting a large number of > > Unicode symbols: > > > > https://docs.perl6.org/language/unicode_entry.html > > In what sense is that "support"?

Re: [Python-ideas] Null coalescing operator

2016-10-31 Thread Mark E. Haase
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > I gather you think you have a deadlock here. The way to break it is > to just do it. Pick a syntax and do the rewriting. My memory of some > past instances is that many of the senior devs (especially Guido) will > "see through the syntax" to evaluate the benefits of

Re: [Python-ideas] Null coalescing operator

2016-10-31 Thread Paul Moore
On 31 October 2016 at 15:51, Mark E. Haase wrote: > Therefore, I have updated the PEP with the punctuation mentioned above, and > at this point the PEP can't go any farther. If the best spelling for this > new operator is unacceptable, then there's no getting around that. This PEP > should be reje

Re: [Python-ideas] Null coalescing operator

2016-10-31 Thread Mark E. Haase
The PEP combines ideas from several different languages. For example: * Both Dart and C# have "x ?? y" and "x?.y". * Dart has "x ??= y" and C# does not. * C# has short circuit semantics for "?." and Dart does not. * PHP has "??" but does not have "?." * Etc. Wikipedia lists a lot of other languag

Re: [Python-ideas] Null coalescing operator

2016-10-31 Thread Guido van Rossum
I think we should try to improve our intutition about these operators. Many things that are intuitively clear still require long turgid paragraphs in reference documentation to state the behavior unambiguously -- but that doesn't stop us from intuitively grasping concepts like a+b (when does b.__ra

Re: [Python-ideas] Null coalescing operator

2016-10-31 Thread Paul Moore
On 31 October 2016 at 17:16, Guido van Rossum wrote: > I think we should try to improve our intutition about these operators. Many > things that are intuitively clear still require long turgid paragraphs in > reference documentation to state the behavior unambiguously -- but that > doesn't stop us

Re: [Python-ideas] Null coalescing operator

2016-10-31 Thread MRAB
On 2016-10-31 17:16, Guido van Rossum wrote: I think we should try to improve our intutition about these operators. Many things that are intuitively clear still require long turgid paragraphs in reference documentation to state the behavior unambiguously -- but that doesn't stop us from intuitive

Re: [Python-ideas] Null coalescing operator

2016-10-31 Thread Paul Moore
On 31 October 2016 at 18:11, MRAB wrote: > With this feature it could be: > > if x in stop_on or end_if?(x): I don't think "null-aware function call" is in the current version of the PEP. Paul ___ Python-ideas mailing list Python-ideas@python.org ht

Re: [Python-ideas] Null coalescing operator

2016-10-31 Thread MRAB
On 2016-10-31 19:14, Paul Moore wrote: On 31 October 2016 at 18:11, MRAB wrote: > With this feature it could be: > > if x in stop_on or end_if?(x): I don't think "null-aware function call" is in the current version of the PEP. That might be because it's not clear how useful it would be in p

Re: [Python-ideas] Null coalescing operator

2016-10-31 Thread Random832
On Mon, Oct 31, 2016, at 13:16, Guido van Rossum wrote: > For "everything to the right" it would seem we have some freedom: e.g. > if we have "foo.bar?.baz(bletch)" is the call included? The answer is > yes -- the concept we're after here is named "trailer" in the Grammar > file in the source code

Re: [Python-ideas] Null coalescing operator

2016-10-31 Thread Guido van Rossum
Obviously the AST needs to be changed. How? I dunno. Sounds like you have some ideas. :-) On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 2:44 PM, Random832 wrote: > On Mon, Oct 31, 2016, at 13:16, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > For "everything to the right" it would seem we have some freedom: e.g. > > if we have "foo.bar

Re: [Python-ideas] More user-friendly version for string.translate()

2016-10-31 Thread Chris Barker
On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 7:28 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: > >>> s = 'kjskljkxcvnalsfjaweirKJZknzsnlkjsvnskjszsdscccjasfdjf' > >>> s2 = ''.join(c for c in s if c in set('abc')) > pretty slick -- but any hope of it being as fast as a C implemented method? for example, with a 1000 char string: In [59]: