Re: [Python-ideas] Keyword declarations

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 07:24:19PM +0200, Adam Bartoš wrote: > Hello, > > I have yet another idea regarding the the clashes between new keywords and > already used names. How about introducing two new keywords *wink* that > would serve as lexical keyword/nonkeyword declarations, similarly to >

Re: [Python-ideas] Specifying Python version

On 17May2018 10:33, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 08:02:47PM +0100, MRAB wrote: Instead of verbatim identifiers, how about a special comment giving the Python version in which the file was written? There could then be a tool similar to 2to3 that converts

Re: [Python-ideas] Specifying Python version

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 08:02:47PM +0100, MRAB wrote: > Instead of verbatim identifiers, how about a special comment giving the > Python version in which the file was written? > > There could then be a tool similar to 2to3 that converts the file to a > more recent version of Python that might

Re: [Python-ideas] Verbatim names (allowing keywords as names)

On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 10:58:34AM +1200, Greg Ewing wrote: > The trouble with explicitly overriding keywords is that it > still requires old code to be changed whenever a new keyword > is added, which as far as I can see almost competely defeats > the purpose. If e.g. you need to change all uses

Re: [Python-ideas] Verbatim names (allowing keywords as names)

Todd wrote: The overall issue is that python has no way of knowing if the keyword is being used for legitimate backwards-compatibility purposes or someone intentionally overrode after it was made a keyword because they somehow thought it was a good idea. That is why being explicit about

Re: [Python-ideas] Verbatim names (allowing keywords as names)

> We can and do preempt someone sabotaging keywords by not letting anyone override them. > That is the whole point of using reserved keywords. Some languages allow you to change > important words, some don't. Guido made a conscious decision to make certain words keywords, > and to not let anyone

Re: [Python-ideas] Verbatim names (allowing keywords as names)

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 2:17 PM, Carl Smith wrote: > > Not if you need to make changes in the same tens of thousands of lines > file. > > But what has that got to do with the the syntax of the new code? The old > code is > what it is. > > Again, because you end up with

Re: [Python-ideas] Keyword declarations

My proposal assumes we want to be able to reference the name as defined in external libraries, but never have it be a name and a keyword in the same namespace. Your proposal (and the others I've seen) seem to be deliberately aiming to allow that. Do you want to have keywords that are names in the

[Python-ideas] Specifying Python version

Instead of verbatim identifiers, how about a special comment giving the Python version in which the file was written? There could then be a tool similar to 2to3 that converts the file to a more recent version of Python that might have new reserved words. In most cases the new file would

Re: [Python-ideas] Keyword declarations

If `def(if=3)...` works implicitly, then why not make `if = 3`, `x.if = 3`, `import if`, `def if` and `class if` implicit too? Another issue is what happens here: keyword if import if f(if=3) f.if = 3 The keyword will be a valid name in old code, so you need to be able to reference it as a name

Re: [Python-ideas] Keyword declarations

On 5/16/2018 1:24 PM, Adam Bartoš wrote: Hello, I have yet another idea regarding the the clashes between new keywords and already used names. How about introducing two new keywords *wink* that would serve as lexical keyword/nonkeyword declarations, similarly to nonlocal and global

Re: [Python-ideas] Verbatim names (allowing keywords as names)

​> There can be 2 escape characters '\' and '.' That's clever, but then we have to put a slash in front of names in imports, assignments and keyword arguments, but not properties. -- Carl Smith carl.in...@gmail.com On 16 May 2018 at 19:17, Carl Smith wrote: > > Not if

Re: [Python-ideas] Verbatim names (allowing keywords as names)

> Not if you need to make changes in the same tens of thousands of lines file. But what has that got to do with the the syntax of the new code? The old code is what it is. I did think after I replied that `True` wasn't actually reserved until more recently, but the point still stands: You would

[Python-ideas] Keyword declarations

Hello, I have yet another idea regarding the the clashes between new keywords and already used names. How about introducing two new keywords *wink* that would serve as lexical keyword/nonkeyword declarations, similarly to nonlocal and global declarations? def f(): nonkeyword if if = 2 #

Re: [Python-ideas] Runtime assertion with no overhead when not active

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 01:27:50PM +, Eloi Gaudry wrote: > On Wed, 2018-05-16 at 21:15 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 08:29:00AM +, Eloi Gaudry wrote: > > > Is there some interest in the proposal or should I finally close > > > this > > > thread ? > > > > I'm

Re: [Python-ideas] Runtime assertion with no overhead when not active

On Wed, 2018-05-16 at 21:15 +1000, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 08:29:00AM +, Eloi Gaudry wrote: > > Is there some interest in the proposal or should I finally close > > this > > thread ? > > I'm definitely interested in the concept, not the suggested syntax > or  >

Re: [Python-ideas] Verbatim names (allowing keywords as names)

On 16.05.2018 16:05, Andrés Delfino wrote: IMHO, it would be much easier to learn and understand if keywords can only be used by escaping them, instead of depending where they occur. There can be 2 escape characters '\' and '.' Niki ___

Re: [Python-ideas] Verbatim names (allowing keywords as names)

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Carl Smith wrote: > Thanks for the reply Todd. > > If `True` was redefined somewhere else, it would still be `True` for you. > You could do `from oldlib import True as true` and have `true` equal ` > np.bool_(1)`. You could reference

Re: [Python-ideas] Verbatim names (allowing keywords as names)

One problem with my proposal is with assignments to properties (`name.keyword = something`) and regular assignments (including class and def statements) inside the body of a class that subclasses and externally defined class would all need to be allowed, so that inherited names can be reassigned

Re: [Python-ideas] Verbatim names (allowing keywords as names)

Thanks for the reply Todd. If `True` was redefined somewhere else, it would still be `True` for you. You could do `from oldlib import True as true` and have `true` equal ` np.bool_(1)`. You could reference `oldlib.True` or do `oldlib.function(True=x)` to interact with the name in the old library.

Re: [Python-ideas] __dir__ in which folder is this py file

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 10:11 PM Rob Speer wrote: > From what I can tell, if you wanted to exclude '__init__.py' from Nginx in > particular, you would have to write an unconventional Nginx configuration, > where you determine whether a path refers to a static file according

Re: [Python-ideas] Verbatim names (allowing keywords as names)

On Tue, May 15, 2018, 23:03 Carl Smith wrote: > > >> On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 8:41 PM, Steven D'Aprano >> wrote: >> >>> Inspired by Alex Brault's post: >>> >>> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/2018-May/050750.html >>> >>> I'd like to

Re: [Python-ideas] Verbatim names (allowing keywords as names)

IMHO, it would be much easier to learn and understand if keywords can only be used by escaping them, instead of depending where they occur. On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 9:13 AM, Wolfgang Maier < wolfgang.ma...@biologie.uni-freiburg.de> wrote: > On 16.05.2018 02:41, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > >> >> Some

Re: [Python-ideas] Verbatim names (allowing keywords as names)

On 16.05.2018 02:41, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Some examples: result = \except + 1 result = something.\except result = \except.\finally Maybe that could get combined with Guido's original suggestion by making the \ optional after a .? Example: class A (): \global =

Re: [Python-ideas] Runtime assertion with no overhead when not active

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 08:29:00AM +, Eloi Gaudry wrote: > Is there some interest in the proposal or should I finally close this > thread ? I'm definitely interested in the concept, not the suggested syntax or semantics. -- Steve ___

Re: [Python-ideas] Runtime assertion with no overhead when not active

Is there some interest in the proposal or should I finally close this thread ? Thanks for your feedback, Eloi > ___ > Python-ideas mailing list > Python-ideas@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas > Code of Conduct:

Re: [Python-ideas] Verbatim names (allowing keywords as names)

On Wed, 16 May 2018 09:13:52 +0100 Paul Moore wrote: > On 16 May 2018 at 01:41, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > Inspired by Alex Brault's post: > > > > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/2018-May/050750.html > > > > I'd like to suggest we copy

Re: [Python-ideas] Verbatim names (allowing keywords as names)

Hi all, One problem already alluded to with the \identifier syntax is that it only works if the old Python version is sufficiently recent to understand \. What about using parentheses to allow a keyword to be used as an identifier: (where)(x, y) This then in combination with allowing keywords

Re: [Python-ideas] Verbatim names (allowing keywords as names)

On 16 May 2018 at 09:56, Eric V. Smith wrote: > On 5/16/18 4:47 AM, Eric V. Smith wrote: >> >> On 5/16/18 4:13 AM, Paul Moore wrote: > > >>> Can you give a worked example of how this would >>> help if we wanted to introduce a new keyword? For example, if we >>> intended to

Re: [Python-ideas] Verbatim names (allowing keywords as names)

On 5/16/18 4:47 AM, Eric V. Smith wrote: On 5/16/18 4:13 AM, Paul Moore wrote: Can you give a worked example of how this would help if we wanted to introduce a new keyword? For example, if we intended to make "where" a keyword, what would numpy and its users need to do to continue using

Re: [Python-ideas] Verbatim names (allowing keywords as names)

On 5/16/18 4:13 AM, Paul Moore wrote: On 16 May 2018 at 01:41, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Inspired by Alex Brault's post: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/2018-May/050750.html I'd like to suggest we copy C#'s idea of verbatim identifiers, but using a backslash

Re: [Python-ideas] Verbatim names (allowing keywords as names)

On 16 May 2018 at 01:41, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Inspired by Alex Brault's post: > > https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/2018-May/050750.html > > I'd like to suggest we copy C#'s idea of verbatim identifiers, but using > a backslash rather than @ sign: > >