[Python-ideas] Reminder about intent of messages (Was: Syntactic sugar to declare partial functions)

Now that the discussion has officially devolved into something that has absolutely nothing to do with the original topic, I'd like to point out something: (Note that I have no affiliation with the managers of this mailing list at all and am just posting this as an outsider.) In Steven D'Aprano's o

Re: [Python-ideas] Retire or reword the "Beautiful is better than ugly" Zen clause

FWIW a big flag to me was putting an Urban Dictionary link under "references"... On Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 12:21 PM Anders Hovmöller wrote: > > > If I were to change anything, I'd drop the reference to "Zen". That > wasn't part of the original, and was added by someone else. If, e.g., a > Zen Budd

Re: [Python-ideas] Deprecation utilities for the warnings module

I have to say, this would be amazing! I've basically had to create many of these by hand over time, and I doubt I'm the only person who's wondered how this isn't in the stdlib! On Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 7:18 PM Ilya Kulakov wrote: > (Apologies if it's a duplicate. I originally posted to > python-id.

Re: [Python-ideas] "slur" vs "insult"?

Kinda OT, but I believe the connotation is that slur is use of the word, whereas an insult is use directed at someone. For instance, if someone is having a conversation where they use the n-word, it's a racial slur. If they directly call someone that, it's an insult. On Fri, Sep 21, 2018, 9:45 AM

Re: [Python-ideas] JS’ governance model is worth inspecting

This feels a bit like apples and oranges. Babel's primary purpose is transpiling to run on older browsers, which isn't that much of an issue with Python. It's also complicated a bit by the large number of implementations that *must* be developed in sync, again due to running in user's browsers. O

Re: [Python-ideas] AMEND PEP-8 TO DISCOURAGE ALL CAPS

IMO it's good to have some sort of visual differentiation between constants and normal values. A lot of camelCase-based style guides use a k prefix (e.g. kMyValue), but Python doesn't use it (other than PascalCase for classes). If there were to be an alternative to ALL_CAPS for constants, I guess m

Re: [Python-ideas] What factors led Guido to quit?

- This is a mailing list for discussing ideas for Python, not theorizing about personal reasons for leaving a community, nor for writing prompts. - I would argue he left largely just due to people's influence outside this direct community, but also as a sort of "sign" that it was time to go. That b

Re: [Python-ideas] A proper way to bring real interfaces to Python

Worth maybe noting that this could play interestingly with PEP 484? -- Ryan (ライアン) Yoko Shimomura, ryo (supercell/EGOIST), Hiroyuki Sawano >> everyone else https://refi64.com/ On May 4, 2019, 8:24 PM -0500, Serge Matveenko , wrote: > Hi, all! > > I believe, almost everybody is familiar with the `a

[Python-ideas] Re: Assign-in-place operator

Think of it more like indexing a range. Say you have: L[:] = M[:] Which is the same as: L[0:len(L)] = M[0:len(M)] Which mentally you can think of like: L[0], L[1],...L[len(L)] = M[0],M[1],...M[len(M)] Slicing is just indexing that represents more than one element, and if you think about it l

[Python-ideas] Re: Canceling thread in python

IME in many of these cases you're better off using asyncio instead. -- Ryan https://refi64.com/ On Jun 20, 2019, 12:14 AM -0500, Matúš Valo , wrote: > Hi All, > > Currently it is not possible to "kill" thread which is blocked. The rationale > for this is handling situations when thread is blocked

[Python-ideas] Re: Namespace context managers

I feel like this could have some interesting side uses (typing on mobile so ignore the crappy indentation): with Namespace('a'): x = 1 y = 2 print(a.__dict__) # we now have a dict The GN build system flat-out has no dictionary / mapping type in favor of scopes like this. On Sun, Jul 28, 2019,

[Python-ideas] Re: Entrypoint function for modules (AKA if __name__ == '__main__' ) with built-in argument parsing

I think you might find plac[1] and fire[2] rather interesting. I do feel an explicit __run__ would go against the spirit of "explicit is better than implicit" a bit... [1] https://micheles.github.io/plac/ [2] https://github.com/google/python-fire On Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 8:03 PM wrote: > Maybe th

[Python-ideas] Re: Simple feature for argparse.py

I believe you want Python 3.7's parse_intermixed_args: https://docs.python.org/3/library/argparse.html#argparse.ArgumentParser.parse_intermixed_args A quick test seems to work: import argparse p = argparse.ArgumentParser() p.add_argument('files', nargs='*') p.add_argument('-f', '--force', actio

Re: [Python-ideas] Extending expressions using ellipsis

On Aug 31, 2016 7:22 PM, "Chris Kaynor" wrote: > > Guido's time machine strikes again, GAH! We should've just used that for PEPs 484 and 526; instead of trying to prove type hints are useful, Guido could've just: 1. Go 50 years into the future. 2. Make note of the Python's world domination (Perl

Re: [Python-ideas] Typecheckers: there can be only one

On Sep 7, 2016 4:28 AM, "Hugh Fisher" wrote: > > There's been discussion here and on python-dev regarding PEP 526 that > assumes there will be multiple type checkers for Python. I really > can't see this happening. It already did: - mypy - pytype - PyCharm has an integrated one - pylint will add

Re: [Python-ideas] Null coalescing operator

https://github.com/kirbyfan64/_frozensafemockobjectimplementation In all seriousness, though, I really feel like that would be the ultimate bug magnet, since it'd be easy to forget to un-wrap the object afterwards. -- Ryan [ERROR]: Your autotools build scripts are 200 lines longer than your progr

Re: [Python-ideas] Overloading operators for testing

FYI, pytest already does this: http://doc.pytest.org/en/latest/ -- Ryan [ERROR]: Your autotools build scripts are 200 lines longer than your program. Something’s wrong. http://kirbyfan64.github.io/ On Sep 17, 2016 7:55 PM, "Arek Bulski" wrote: > I am using declarative testing a lot and I found

Re: [Python-ideas] from __pip__ import

This sounds like a great idea, but I've seen stuff like this done before, and it never ends well. You end up with a gargantuan-sized rabbit hole, since running a basic script could now involve using an internet connection and potentially root permissions. IF one were to go this route, I prefer bun

Re: [Python-ideas] Make partial a built-in

On Sep 20, 2016 10:52 AM, "Guido van Rossum" wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 8:29 AM, אלעזר wrote: >> *snip* >> The alternative to partial is writing a closure in the form of a function, that needs to be carefully inspected to verify that it is indeed just a partial application and not somethi

Re: [Python-ideas] PEP8 dictionary indenting addition

On Oct 11, 2016 10:40 AM, "Erik Bray" wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 2:25 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > On Sat, Oct 08, 2016 at 09:26:13PM +0200, Jelte Fennema wrote: > >> I have an idea to improve indenting guidelines for dictionaries for better > >> readability: If a value in a dictionary l

Re: [Python-ideas] Add a method to get the subset of a dictionnary.

That discussion seemed to mostly just conclude that dicts shouldn't have all set operations, and then it kind of just dropped off. No one really argued the subset part. -- Ryan [ERROR]: Your autotools build scripts are 200 lines longer than your program. Something’s wrong. http://kirbyfan64.github

Re: [Python-ideas] Proposal for default character representation

On Oct 12, 2016 4:33 PM, "Mikhail V" wrote: > > Hello all, > > *snip* > > PROPOSAL: > 1. Remove all hex notation from printing functions, typing, > documention. > So for printing functions leave the hex as an "option", > for example for those who feel the need for hex representation, > which is st

Re: [Python-ideas] Proposal for default character representation

On Oct 12, 2016 9:25 PM, "Chris Angelico" wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Mikhail V wrote: > > But as said I find this Unicode only some temporary happening, > > it will go to history in some future and be > > used only to study extinct glyphs. > > And what will we be using instead

[Python-ideas] Showing qualified names when a function call fails

I personally find it kind of annoying when you have code like this: x = A(1, B(2, 3)) and Python's error message looks like this: TypeError: __init__() takes 1 positional argument but 2 were given It doesn't give much of a clue to which `__init__` is being called. At all. The idea: when sh

Re: [Python-ideas] Showing qualified names when a function call fails

So, based on everyone's feedback, I just created this: http://bugs.python.org/issue28536 On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Ryan Gonzalez wrote: > I personally find it kind of annoying when you have code like this: > > > x = A(1, B(2, 3)) > > > and Python'

Re: [Python-ideas] Showing qualified names when a function call fails

Also, as an extension of this idea, would it be possible to improve errors like this: class X: pass X() # object() takes no parameters to show the actual type instead of just 'object'? On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 4:48 PM, Ryan Gonzalez wrote: > So, based on everyone's feedba

Re: [Python-ideas] Showing qualified names when a function call fails

Yeah, I just checked the source and tried changing it. Seems to work well. On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 8:11 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 04:55:21PM -0500, Ryan Gonzalez wrote: > > Also, as an extension of this idea, would it be possible to improve > err

Re: [Python-ideas] PEP 531: Existence checking operators

On Oct 28, 2016 3:30 AM, "Nick Coghlan" wrote: > *snip* > > 1. Do we collectively agree that "existence checking" is a useful > general concept that exists in software development and is distinct > from the concept of "truth checking"? I'd hope so! > 2. Do we collectively agree that the Python e

Re: [Python-ideas] Technical possibilities for a syntax [was: Reverse assignment operators ...]

On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Mikhail V wrote: > On 16 November 2016 at 10:27, Paul Moore wrote: > > On 16 November 2016 at 08:51, Mikhail V wrote: > >> What semantics it will fundamentally break or so hard to implement? > > > > I'm afraid I don't have time at the moment to fully review you

Re: [Python-ideas] incremental hashing in __hash__

You could always try to make a Python version of the C tuple hashing function[1] (requires the total # of elements) or PyPy's[2] (seems like it would allow true incremental hashing). API idea: hasher = IncrementalHasher() hasher.add(one_item_to_hash) # updates hasher.hash property with result #

Re: [Python-ideas] Python Reviewed

I just want to point ONE thing out: On Jan 9, 2017 11:18 PM, "Simon Lovell" wrote: * General comment: I posted this because Googling didn't give me a satisfactory answer to why Python is the way that it is. I think I see it now. Guido hates keywords. I don't find this particularly logical but i

Re: [Python-ideas] pathlib suggestions

As another suggestion, I'd love an rmtree method analogous to shutil.rmtree. And maybe also a remove method, that basically does: if path.is_dir(): path.rmtree() else: path.unlink() \-- Ryan (ライアン) Yoko Shimomura > ryo (supercell/EGOIST) > Hiroyuki Sawano >> everyone

Re: [Python-ideas] A decorator to call super()

https://github.com/kirbyfan64/mirasu \-- Ryan (ライアン) Yoko Shimomura > ryo (supercell/EGOIST) > Hiroyuki Sawano >> everyone else ___ Python-ideas mailing list Python-ideas@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/

[Python-ideas] List indexing multiple elements

Apologies if this has already been covered! Right now, if you want to get multiple elements in a list, you have to do: elements = [mylist[a], mylist[b]] My proposal is two-folded: - Right now, a[b,c] is already valid syntax, since it's just indexing a with the tuple (b, c). The proposal is to m

Re: [Python-ideas] Wrapper for ctypes

Ever looked up cffi? You won't be disappointed. -- Ryan (ライアン) Yoko Shimomura > ryo (supercell/EGOIST) > Hiroyuki Sawano >> everyone else http://refi64.com On Mar 7, 2017 3:43 AM, "George Fischhof" wrote: > Hi Guys, > > right now I had to call functions from a dll, and I started using ctypes. >

[Python-ideas] Adding an 'errors' argument to print

Recently, I was working on a Windows GUI application that ends up running ffmpeg, and I wanted to see the command that was being run. However, the file name had a Unicode character in it (it's a Sawano song), and when I tried to print it to the console, it crashed during the encode/decode. (The enc

Re: [Python-ideas] Adding an 'errors' argument to print

FWIW, using the ascii function does have the problem that Unicose characters will be escaped, even if the terminal could have handled them perfectly fine. -- Ryan (ライアン) Yoko Shimomura > ryo (supercell/EGOIST) > Hiroyuki Sawano >> everyone else http://refi64.com On Mar 26, 2017 9:07 AM, "Nick Cog

Re: [Python-ideas] IDEA

There are quite a few Python IDEs, like PyCharm, Ninja, Spyder, PyDev, and more. In addition, I would say that almost every currently existent text editor has at least *some* Python support (I personally use Howl, though I'll admit I'm rather biased, being part of the development team and all... ;)

Re: [Python-ideas] What about regexp string litterals : re".*" ?

I feel like that borders on a bit too wordy... Personally, I'd like to see something like Felix's regular definitions: http://felix-lang.org/share/src/web/tut/regexp_01.fdoc#Regular_definitions._h -- Ryan (ライアン) Yoko Shimomura > ryo (supercell/EGOIST) > Hiroyuki Sawano >> everyone else http://

Re: [Python-ideas] What about regexp string litterals : re".*" ?

Have you tried PyParsing and/or Grako? They're some of my favorites (well, I like PLY too, but I'm thinking you wouldn't like it too much). -- Ryan (ライアン) Yoko Shimomura > ryo (supercell/EGOIST) > Hiroyuki Sawano >> everyone else http://refi64.com On Apr 3, 2017 3:26 AM, "Neil Girdhar" wrote: >

Re: [Python-ideas] "import me" to display some summary of the current python installation

...except it would break everybody who has a module named `me` (which admittedly isn't too common...). Something like `import this.what` or something like that would be cool, though. -- Ryan (ライアン) Yoko Shimomura > ryo (supercell/EGOIST) > Hiroyuki Sawano >> everyone else http://refi64.com On Ap

Re: [Python-ideas] Augmented assignment syntax for objects.

FWIW I always liked Dart's/Ruby's/Crystal's/(Coffee|Moon)Script's/WhateverElse's style: class Cls { Cls(this.a); // IT'S MAGIC } but the Python equivalent is admittedly weirder: def ___init__(self, self.attr): partly because, it'd have to work on pretty much any other variable name, yet

Re: [Python-ideas] Augmented assignment syntax for objects.

*cough* I'll just drop this here a sec *cough*: https://code.activestate.com/recipes/580790-auto-assign-self-attributes-in-__init__-using-pep-/ On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 25 April 2017 at 11:08, Erik wrote: >> Hi. I suspect that this may have been discussed to de

Re: [Python-ideas] Tighten up the formal grammar and parsing a bit?

I guess maybe if you overload the operators to return broken objects, maybe then they would be different? -- Ryan (ライアン) Yoko Shimomura > ryo (supercell/EGOIST) > Hiroyuki Sawano >> everyone else http://refi64.com On May 15, 2017 9:50 AM, "Serhiy Storchaka" wrote: > On 15.05.17 16:00, Steven D'

Re: [Python-ideas] dict(default=int)

Sometimes I feel that it would be neat of dict constructors (like proposed previously in the thread) could also be chained, e.g.: dict.ordered.default(int)(a=1, b=2) -- Ryan (ライアン) Yoko Shimomura > ryo (supercell/EGOIST) > Hiroyuki Sawano >> everyone else http://refi64.com On May 29, 2017 2:06

Re: [Python-ideas] π = math.pi

I'm slightly confused as to what you mean, but here goes: So you're saying that: - Glyphs like pi have an ambiguous width. - Most text editors/terminals let you choose between halfwidth (roughly normal monospace width?) and fullwidth (double the size). - However, many East Asian fonts do NOT have

[Python-ideas] Adding "View Python 3 Documentation" to all Python 2 documentation URLs

Right now, many Google searches for Python modules return the Python 2 documentation. IMO since 2 will be reaching EOL in around 3 years, it would be nice to have a giant red box at the top with a link to the Python 3 documentation. SFML already does something like this: https://www.sfml-dev.org/t

Re: [Python-ideas] PEP 563: Postponed Evaluation of Annotations, first draft

One thing I want to point out: there are a lot of really useful Python libraries that have come to rely on annotations being objects, ranging from plac to fbuild to many others. I could understand something that delays the evaluation of annotations until they are accessed, but this seems really ext

Re: [Python-ideas] A proliferation of (un-)Pythonically programmatic pragmas

Off the top of my head there's: - Offer a standard pragma-parser in the standard library's ast module that allows multiple pragmas per line. This is kind of the reason there's the weird ast vs typed_ast discrepancy right now, too. - Create a custom pragma syntax that doesn't use comments. Maybe so

Re: [Python-ideas] New PEP proposal -- Pathlib Module Should Contain All File Operations

On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 4:16 PM, George Fischhof wrote: > Hi Jason, > > the status of os and shutil became this because of C functions in > implementation (I got something similar answer before) > ... > > What do you think, what would be a good way to solve this > - add stuff from os to shutil >

Re: [Python-ideas] Dart like multi line strings identation

I have to admit, regardless of how practical this is, it would surely get rid of a ton of textwrap.dedent calls all over the place... On March 31, 2018 9:50:43 AM Marius Räsener wrote: Hey List, this is my very first approach to suggest a Python improvement I'd think worth discussing. At so

Re: [Python-ideas] A "local" pseudo-function

I have to say, this idea feels really nice to me. It's far easier to read than := and separates the assignments and the result expression nicely. Others have brought up the same problem of = vs ==. IMO a solution could be to make a requirement that the last argument is NOT an assignment. In oth

Re: [Python-ideas] A "local" pseudo-function

I'm pretty sure the debate about braces defining scope in Python has long-since ended... -- Ryan (ライアン) Yoko Shimomura, ryo (supercell/EGOIST), Hiroyuki Sawano >> everyone else https://refi64.com/ On April 28, 2018 9:37:57 PM Ken Hilton wrote: > local { m = re.match(regexp, line)

Re: [Python-ideas] A comprehension scope issue in PEP 572

On May 6, 2018 8:41:26 PM Tim Peters wrote: In a different thread I noted that I sometimes want to write code like this: while any(n % p == 0 for p in small_primes): # divide p out - but what's p? But generator expressions hide the value of `p` that succeeded, so I can't. `any()`

Re: [Python-ideas] Inline assignments using "given" clauses

Probably going to completely lose this, but would it be possible to have a vote? +1 for either 'given' and/or ':='? On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 2:48 PM Guido van Rossum wrote: > Yes. > > On Thu, May 10, 2018, 13:18 Alexander Belopolsky < > alexander.belopol...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Thu, May 10,

Re: [Python-ideas] Inline assignments using "given" clauses

On May 11, 2018 1:45:27 PM Tim Peters wrote: [Brendan Barnwell] . . . and it's true the latter is a bit more verbose in that case for little extra benefit. But when the locally-defined value is used within a more complicated expression (like the quadratic formula example), I think readabilit

Re: [Python-ideas] Trigonometry in degrees

You could always do e.g. math.sin(math.degress(radians)) and so forth... On June 7, 2018 3:07:21 PM Robert Vanden Eynde wrote: I suggest adding degrees version of the trigonometric functions in the math module. - Useful in Teaching and replacing calculators by python, importing something

Re: [Python-ideas] Operator for inserting an element into a list

^ is also used in regexes for matching the *beginning* of a string... Realistically, I don't think this proposal would be added, but if it were, ^ would be a horrible choice. That being said, I do understand the feeling of half your code being calls to .append or .extend. You could always do:

Re: [Python-ideas] Should nested classes in an Enum be Enum members?

I *think* he's referring to something like this: class A(enum.Enum): class Inner(NamedTuple): ... isinstance(A.Inner(), A()) # True I *think* that's it. On June 27, 2018 2:26:23 PM Ethan Furman wrote: On 06/27/2018 12:04 PM, Elazar wrote: > בתאריך יום ד׳, 27 ביוני 2018, 11:59,

Re: [Python-ideas] Including the unparse module in the standard library

If you want to get source code from an AST, you'd probably be better off with a more fully-featured library like Astor: https://github.com/berkerpeksag/astor On July 12, 2018 1:21:23 PM Andre Roberge wrote: In the cPython repository, there is an unparse module in the Tools section. https://