Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-27 Thread Mikhail V
On 27 October 2016 at 21:51, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > On 27.10.2016 20:28, Mikhail V wrote: >> So what about curly quotes? This would make at >> least some sense, regardless of unicode. > > -1. This would break code using curly quotes in string literals, > break existing Python

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-27 Thread Mikhail V
On 27 October 2016 at 21:40, Random832 wrote: > On Thu, Oct 27, 2016, at 14:28, Mikhail V wrote: >> So you need umlauts to describe an algorithm and to explain yourself in >> turkish? >> Cool story. Poor uncle Garamond spins in his coffin... > > Why do you need 26 letters?

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-27 Thread Mikhail V
On 27 October 2016 at 06:24, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 2:06 PM, Mikhail V wrote: >> Yep, double quotes , dashes and bullets are very valuable both for typography >> and code (which to the largest part is the same) >> So if just blank

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-27 Thread Ned Batchelder
On 10/27/16 10:12 AM, Mikhail V wrote: > On 27 October 2016 at 06:24, Chris Angelico wrote: > >> Unicode is here to stay. > Congratulations. And chillax. I don't blog anywhere, have no time for that. It's not clear at all where this thread is going, but it's clear to me that it

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-26 Thread Chris Angelico
On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 2:06 PM, Mikhail V wrote: > Yep, double quotes , dashes and bullets are very valuable both for typography > and code (which to the largest part is the same) > So if just blank out this maximalistic BS: >

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-26 Thread Chris Barker
On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Mikhail V wrote: > 2) a table with characters that are reasonably valuable > and cover 99% of all programming, communication and typography in latin > script > I think it's called latin-1 And I think you've mentioned numpy - there was a

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-26 Thread Chris Angelico
On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Not unless they want to get in trouble from the Académie française. They > should write them « like this ». « comme ça » ? (Okay, I'm done) ChrisA ___ Python-ideas

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-26 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 08:59:20AM +1100, Chris Angelico wrote: > So should French programmers write string literals «like this»? Not unless they want to get in trouble from the Académie française. They should write them « like this ». *wink* -- Steve

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-26 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 03:37:54AM +0200, Mikhail V wrote: > Extended ASCII There are over 200 different, mutually incompatible, so-called "extended ASCII" code pages and encodings. And of course it is ludicruous to think that you can fit all the world's characters into only 8-bits. There are

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-25 Thread David Mertz
This is a nice summary of quotation marks used in various languages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark#Specific_language_features On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 9:37 PM, Mikhail V wrote: > On 26 October 2016 at 00:53, Mikhail V wrote: > > On 25

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-25 Thread Mikhail V
On 26 October 2016 at 00:53, Mikhail V wrote: > On 25 October 2016 at 23:50, Chris Barker wrote: > >>that was kind of a throwaway comment, >>but I think it's a LONG way out, but ideally, >>the OWTDI would be "curly quotes". The fact that in ASCII, >>a

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-25 Thread Mikhail V
On 25 October 2016 at 23:50, Chris Barker wrote: >that was kind of a throwaway comment, >but I think it's a LONG way out, but ideally, >the OWTDI would be "curly quotes". The fact that in ASCII, >a single quote and a apostrophe are teh same, >and that there is no

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-25 Thread Chris Angelico
On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 8:50 AM, Chris Barker wrote: > that was kind of a throwaway comment, but I think it's a LONG way out, but > ideally, the OWTDI would be "curly quotes". The fact that in ASCII, a single > quote and a apostrophe are teh same, and that there is no

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-24 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Chris Barker writes: > I think the "better error message" option is the way to go, > however. At least until we all have better Unicode support in all > our tools I don't think "better Unicode support" helps with confusables in programming languages that value TOOWTDI. OK, we already

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-24 Thread Chris Barker
On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:09 AM, Paul Moore wrote: > there are a lot of environments where smart quotes get > accidentally inserted into code. > > * Tutorial/example material prepared by non-programmers, again using > tools that are too "helpful" in auto-converting to

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-22 Thread Terry Reedy
On 10/22/2016 12:32 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 22 October 2016 at 17:36, Ryan Birmingham wrote: Per the comments in this thread, I believe that a better error message for this case would be a reasonable way to fix the use case around this issue. It can be difficult to

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-22 Thread Chris Angelico
On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 3:32 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > Looking for particular Unicode confusables when post-processing > SyntaxErrors seems like a reasonable idea to me - that's how we ended > up implementing the heuristic that reports "Missing parenthesis in > call to print"

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-22 Thread Sven R. Kunze
+1 from me for the idea of a more useful error message (if possible). On 22.10.2016 09:36, Ryan Birmingham wrote: Per the comments in this thread, I believe that a better error message for this case would be a reasonable way to fix the use case around this issue. It can be difficult to notice

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-22 Thread Paul Moore
On 22 October 2016 at 08:17, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 5:49 PM, Ryan Birmingham > wrote: >> this proposed change aims to solve the problem caused when editors, mail >> clients, web browsers, and operating systems over-zealously

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-22 Thread Ryan Birmingham
Per the comments in this thread, I believe that a better error message for this case would be a reasonable way to fix the use case around this issue. It can be difficult to notice that your quotes are curved if you don't know that's what you're looking for. -Ryan Birmingham On 22 October 2016 at

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-22 Thread Chris Angelico
On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 5:49 PM, Ryan Birmingham wrote: > this proposed change aims to solve the problem caused when editors, mail > clients, web browsers, and operating systems over-zealously replacing > straight quotes with these typographical characters. > A

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-22 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 06:13:35AM +, Jonathan Goble wrote: > Interesting idea. +1 from me; probably can be as simple as just having the > tokenizer interpret curly quotes as the ASCII (straight) version of itself > (in other words, " and the two curly versions of that would all produce the >

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-22 Thread Ryan Birmingham
The quotes I intended in this email are just, and where the encoding is appropriate. Internationalization was not the intent of this. I do believe that you have a good point with supporting common quotes in other languages, but I believe that such a change would be large enough to consider a

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-22 Thread Steven D'Aprano
On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 01:17:58AM -0400, Ryan Birmingham wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I want to start small and ask about smart/curly quote marks (” vs "). Which curly quotes are you going to support? There's Dutch, of course: „…” ‚…’ But how about … ? - English ‘…’ “…” - French « … » “…”

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-22 Thread Jonathan Goble
Interesting idea. +1 from me; probably can be as simple as just having the tokenizer interpret curly quotes as the ASCII (straight) version of itself (in other words, " and the two curly versions of that would all produce the same token, and same for single quotes, eliminating any need for

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-21 Thread Ryan Birmingham
I was thinking of using them only as possibly quotes characters, as students and beginners seem to have difficulties due to this quote-mismatch error. That OSX has smart quotes enabled by default makes this a worthwhile consideration, in my opinion. -Ryan Birmingham On 22 October 2016 at 01:34,

Re: [Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-21 Thread Ethan Furman
On 10/21/2016 10:17 PM, Ryan Birmingham wrote: I want to start small and ask about smart/curly quote marks (” vs "). Although most languages do not support these characters as quotation marks, I believe that cPython should, if possible. I'm willing to write the patch, of course, but I wanted

[Python-ideas] Smart/Curly Quote Marks and cPython

2016-10-21 Thread Ryan Birmingham
Hello everyone, I want to start small and ask about smart/curly quote marks (” vs "). Although most languages do not support these characters as quotation marks, I believe that cPython should, if possible. I'm willing to write the patch, of course, but I wanted to ask about this change, if it has