[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
O/S: Windows XP Service Pack 2
Python version: 2.4
Unable to understand how to build a class to handle an exception.
Contents of sample01.py:
import exceptions
class SampleMain:
try:
def __init__(self):
print 'in SampleMain constructor'
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
O/S: Windows XP Service Pack 2
Python version: 2.4
Unable to understand how to build a class to handle an exception.
Contents of sample01.py:
import exceptions
class SampleMain:
try:
def __init__(self):
print 'in SampleMain constructor'
What is the recommended way of generating HTML from Python? I know of
HTMLGen and of
few recipes in the Cookbook, but is there something which is more or
less standard?
Also, are there plans to include a module for HTML generation in the
standard library?
I really would like to see some
Riverbank Computing is pleased to announce the release of PyQt v3.14 available
from http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/.
Changes since the last release include support for QScintilla v1.5.
PyQt is a comprehensive set of Qt bindings for the Python programming language
and supports the same
Just to clarify, before people start pointing out their preferred
templating language: I am NOT asking for
a template system. I am asking for something on the
lines of HTMLGen, where you just use pure Python.
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Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
Arich Chanachai [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
When the CLR is integrated, it will allow a wide array of problem
solving choices for uuu users.
You've missed the point. Allowing a wide array of problem solving
choices is
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
Should a professional developer take python serious?
Yes.
Regards,
Martin
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Thomas Heller wrote:
Is it possible to specify a byte string literal when running with the -U option?
Not literally. However, you can specify things like
bytes = [0x47, 0x49, 0x4f, 0x50, 0x01, 0x00]
bytes = ''.join((chr(x) for x in bytes))
Alternatively, you could rely on the 1:1 feature of
aurora wrote:
Lots of errors. Amount them are gzip (binary?!) and strftime??
For gzip, this is not surprising. It contains things like
self.fileobj.write('\037\213')
which is not intended to denote characters.
How about
b'' - 8bit string; '' unicode string
and no automatic conversion.
This
Xah Lee wrote:
when i try to run the following program, Python complains about some
global name frozenset is not defined. Is set some new facility in
Python 2.4?
http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/whatsnew/
http://www.python.org/doc/2.4/whatsnew/whatsnew24.html
You must be running 2.3. If you
I ported a Jos Stam's demo about Fluid mech to check
the difference of speed between C implementation and
Python. I think I achieved good results with Python
and there is space to improve, without to extend the
program with C routine, I mean.
--
Good hack,
Alberto Santini
A.B., Khalid wrote:
[...] - (comments)
I've just overflown your comments for a few seconds.
And I got my confirmations.
Thank you for your time.
--
pyMinGW:
http://jove.prohosting.com/iwave/ipython/pyMinGW.html
.
--
http://lazaridis.com
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Fredrik Lundh wrote:
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
Should a professional developer take python serious?
yes.
Should I take answers serious?
Answer from people which do not respect coherence of writings?
Should a professional developer take python serious?
I mean, if the team does not manage at least the
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
Should a professional developer take python serious?
Yes.
Should I take answers serious?
Answer from people which do not respect coherence of writings?
Should a professional developer take python serious?
I mean, if the team does not manage at least
John Machin:
Perhaps I'm missing a posting of yours -- what are merge2 and merge4?
What is this random pairs test? What is xMax (nPairs isn't hard to
guess), and how are you generating your input data?
merge2 and this random pairs test comes from the post by Brian Beck.
merge4 is the first in my
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
Should a professional developer take python serious?
yes.
/F
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From: Xah Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The GOTO statement from Perl has been messed up.
hey, I didn't do it!
This block:
for group in interm:
what do the funny little s stand for?
Eric Pederson
http://www.songzilla.blogspot.com
:::
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
How about
b'' - 8bit string; '' unicode string
and no automatic conversion.
This has been proposed before, see PEP 332. The problem is that
people often want byte strings to be mutable as well, so it is
still unclear whether it is better to make the b prefix denote
the
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
Should a professional developer take python serious?
yes.
Should I take answers serious?
yes.
Answer from people which do not respect coherence of writings?
coherence of writings?
/F
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On 20 Feb 2005 03:31:33 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
John Machin:
FWIW, my offering is attached.
I'm sorry, I don't see the attach... (just the different title).
Here it is. I'll reply to the rest tomorrow. It's way past sleep-time
here.
!
!class _Stopper:
!pass
!
!def
Fredrik Lundh wrote:
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
Should a professional developer take python serious?
yes.
Should I take answers serious?
yes.
Answer from people which do not respect coherence of writings?
coherence of writings?
Ironic, is it not?
I think he's referring to the fact that you snipped
jfj wrote:
Yes, but according to the python philosophy one could pass locals()
to the nested function and grab the values from there. Seems
practical
for the rareness of this...
First of all, I really don't agree that it's a rare need. I use it
pretty often.
Second of all, the whole point
David M. Cooke wrote:
The file() constructor is new in Python 2.2 and is an alias for
open(). Both spellings are equivalent. The intent is for open() to
continue to be preferred for use as a factory function which returns a
new file object. The spelling, file is more suited to type testing
(for
Hi,
this is to inform all of you about the release of eric3 3.6.2. It is a
bug fix release and will work with the latest QScintilla/sip/PyQt.
It is available via http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html
What is eric3?
--
Eric3 is a Python IDE written using PyQt and QScintilla.
Jeff Shannon wrote:
You could probably also do this as a factory function, rather than as a
class (also untested!):
def Wrapper(func):
def wrapped(self, *args, **kwargs):
s, r = func(self, *args, **kwargs)
if s != 'OK':
raise NotOK((s,r))
return r
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
Should I take answers serious?
If not, why are you asking questions in the first place?
Answer from people which do not respect coherence of writings?
Coherence of writings?
Should a professional developer take python serious?
Yes.
I mean, if the team does not manage at
Pat wrote:
On Windows, most users are used to installing precompiled binary
packages, rather than compiling from source. When you do have to
compile from source, it often requires you to fiddle with nitty gritty
details about which you'd rather remain ignorant. The less fiddling
required, the
George Sakkis wrote:
Still the word open sounds too general if the meaning is open a file-like
object; OTOH this
could be a good thing if in some future version open('http://www.python.org')
was e.g. an alias to
urllib2.urlopen.
Exactly the reason the BDFL gave for preferring 'open' - it may be
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
People also argue that with such an approach, we could as well
tell users to use array.array for the mutable type. But then,
people complain that it doesn't have all the library support that
strings have.
Indeed - I've got a data manipulating program that I figured I could
As Felix pointed out, of course link should read
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywrath
Sorry to everyone who tried to follow crappy link :)
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If you put yourself into the shoes of someone who decides to use a
Python product that requires compiling, and that product contains C
extensions that also need compiling, you'll see that it doesn't matter
whether or not that individual has actually written a single line of
Python themselves.
Where in the language would one find the intropsection capability to
answer the question: what class am I in?
Example:
class ExistentialCrisis:
def __init__(self, text):
self.spam = text
print 'In the constructor of the %s class' % whatever
When the constructor method is
I am making custom web server using HTTPServer and want to be able to
access it simultaneously from different computers. To achieve
multithreading, I have been experimenting with ThreadingMixIn from
SocketServer, but it doesn't seem to work, when I freeze code in one
instance it seems to be frozen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
My question is this: what can be substituted for whatever that will
make the example above work?
self.__class__.__name__
--
Robin Becker
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
François Pinard wrote:
[Nick Coghlan]
George Sakkis wrote:
Still the word open sounds too general if the meaning is open
a file-like object; OTOH this could be a good thing if in some
future version open('http://www.python.org') was e.g. an alias to
urllib2.urlopen.
Exactly the reason the BDFL
Travis Berg wrote:
I'm running into a problem when trying to perform a callback to a
Python function from a C extension. Specifically, the callback is
being made by a pthread that seems to cause the problem. If I call
the callback from the parent process, it works fine. The PyObject is
Tortelini [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I am making custom web server using HTTPServer and want to be able to
access it simultaneously from different computers. To achieve
multithreading, I have been experimenting with ThreadingMixIn from
SocketServer, but it doesn't seem to work,
One common
Robin Becker wrote:
self.__class__.__name__
Unless I misunderstood the question, that won't work. That will
give you the name of the class the object is an instance is of.
I think he wants the name of the class the method was defined in.
Here's a way to do that using metaclasses and Python's magic
Unless I misunderstood the question, that won't work. That will
give you the name of the class the object is an instance is of.
I think he wants the name of the class the method was defined in.
Where is the difference? The method is defined in a class - and an instance
is created from that
Michael Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Robin Becker wrote:
self.__class__.__name__
Unless I misunderstood the question, that won't work. That will
give you the name of the class the object is an instance is of.
I think he wants the name of the class the method
Diez B. Roggisch wrote:
[Michael Hoffman]:
Unless I misunderstood the question, that won't work. That will
give you the name of the class the object is an instance is of.
I think he wants the name of the class the method was defined in.
Where is the difference? The method is defined in a class -
John Roth wrote:
If that's the case, then the inspect module should give
the tools to do it without a great deal of angst. Unfortunately,
it doesn't give you the class that defined the method, just
the class that invoked it.
Are you saying that the inspect module *should* give you the
tools to do
Your two email addresses bouce emails back, so I post a shortened
version of my comment here.
I haven't installed:
PyOpenGL-2.0.2.01.py2.4-numpy23
glut-3.7.6
Therefore at the moment I cannot try your interesting code.
What's the speed of this Python code on your computer?
I'd like to see a
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
Should I take answers serious?
If not, why are you asking questions in the first place?
simply read the next question, which limits the scope of the first one.
Answer from people which do not respect coherence of writings?
Coherence of writings?
An
[snip, Ilias would not understand it]
P.S. if Ilias volunteers, or offers to pay someone to do this,
instead of just
complaining, will hell freeze over?)
Nick,
There is about as much chance of hell freezing over as there is of
England beating Australia in the cricket this summer. [I'am a
hello,
i'm quite new to python. currently i try to write a web application with
python cgi scripts.
in this application, i need keys to be delivered with the url, some with
and some without value (for example 'script.py?key1key2=foo'.
i've searched the internet, and already figured out that i
Donn == Donn Cave [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Donn I don't know what the Windows version is like, but for all
Donn the UNIX shell's weaknesses, it's very well suited to its
Donn role. The Plan 9
I don't know about that - I don't see anything in shell that couldn't
be done better in
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
they above 2 questions are coherent, thus answering isolated [as you've
done] makes not much sense.
Should I take answers serious?
Answer from people which do not respect coherence of writings?
Except that the quote here above is NOT what was in your original
Hi,
Jonas Meurer wrote:
if i request the script with script.py?key1key2=foo, it will output:
list keys with form.keys():
key2
any suggestions about how to make form.keys() contain the blank keys
as well?
key1 isn't a valid parameter, to supply an empty key you would write
Jan Dries wrote:
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
[...] - (things which justify inability of coherence-detection)
If you would have written:
Should I take answers serious? Answer from people which do not respect
coherence of writings?
it would have been much more coherent.
I understand.
Let's see:
-
On 20/02/2005 Daniel Lichtenberger wrote:
any suggestions about how to make form.keys() contain the blank keys
as well?
key1 isn't a valid parameter, to supply an empty key you would write
script.py?key1=key2=foo
Then cgi.FieldStorage also includes key1.
great, it works. but is there
Hi,
I have 2 lists of tuples that look like:
E1=[('a','g'),('r','s')] and
E2=[('g','a'),('r','q'),('f','h')].
In this tuple, the ordering does not
matter, i.e. (u,v) is the same as (v,u).
What I want to do is the following:
given 2 list of tuples, E1 and E2, I want to create another list with
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
I understand.
no.
/F
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http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
Should I take answers serious?
.
.
.
.
Answer from people which do not respect coherence of writings?
-
-
-
I still detect the coherence.
As most people in this group will detect the coherence.
I don't. The second fragment is not even correct English
(it does not have a verb
I think there's a problem with the code:
py decode_replacements.update([(std[key], key) for key in std])
py decode_replacements.update([(ext[key], key) for key in ext])
when i run this i get an error:
AttributeError: keys
I can't get that figured out
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have 2 lists of tuples that look like:
E1=[('a','g'),('r','s')] and
E2=[('g','a'),('r','q'),('f','h')].
In this tuple, the ordering does not
matter, i.e. (u,v) is the same as (v,u).
What I want to do is the following:
given 2 list of tuples, E1 and E2, I want
Carl Banks wrote:
Say you want to calculate a list of points of an iterated fractal.
Here's the idea: you have a set of linear transformations. You take
the origin (0,0) as the first point, and then apply each transformation
in turn to get a new point. You recursively apply each transformation
Michael Hoffman wrote:
Robin Becker wrote:
self.__class__.__name__
Unless I misunderstood the question, that won't work. That will
give you the name of the class the object is an instance is of.
I think he wants the name of the class the method was defined in.
Here's a way to do that using
On 2005-02-20, Ilias Lazaridis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you would have written:
Should I take answers serious? Answer from people which do not respect
coherence of writings?
it would have been much more coherent.
I understand.
I doubt it.
I still detect the coherence.
As
a community of online 3d developers is
looking for a python script writer to write a script to export from poser to
ogre3d .mesh/.skeleton formats, using the poser python script interpretor.
please reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED]thanks!!
--
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Nick Coghlan wrote:
Pat wrote:
On Windows, most users are used to installing precompiled binary
packages, rather than compiling from source. When you do have to
compile from source, it often requires you to fiddle with nitty
gritty
details about which you'd rather remain ignorant. The
[Snip]
Martin,
I believe that you are wasting your time. Looking at your email
address, this may well be relevant.
Martin v. Löwis wrote:
Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
Should I take answers serious?
[...]
Answer from people which do not respect coherence of writings?
[...]
I still detect the coherence.
As most people in this group will detect the coherence.
I don't. The second fragment is not even correct English
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
I have 2 lists of tuples that look like:
E1=[('a','g'),('r','s')] and
E2=[('g','a'),('r','q'),('f','h')].
In this tuple, the ordering does not
matter, i.e. (u,v) is the same as (v,u).
What I want to do is the following:
given 2 list of tuples, E1 and E2, I
[Michael Hoffman]
To be honest I doubt open will be extended in this manner.
I did not read Guido's arguments for a while, so I may remember them
wrongly. So, take me with a grain of salt. I would not think Guido is
arguing for the sole sake of arguing. Maybe his plans or visions will
Robin Becker wrote:
import inspect
class A:
_class_name=inspect.currentframe().f_code.co_name
def __init__(self,text,_defining_class_name=_class_name):
print 'text=',text,'_defining_class_name=',_defining_class_name
class B(A):
pass
b=B('aaa')
That won't work, if you, say, wanted to
Did you build your own MySQL, or did you use a pre-built version? And
what version? It's not clear if you're using 4.0 or 4.1. If
mysql_config is returning the wrong flags, then that's a bug with
MySQL.
You should be able to work around this by doing this in setup.py before
the call to setup():
It's not that, here is definition that I use:
class myWebServer(SocketServer.ThreadingMixIn,
BaseHTTPServer.HTTPServer):
pass
code that runs server:
server = myWebServer(('', 80), myWebHTTPHandler)
LOG(Web Server starting)
server.serve_forever()
and here is shortened version of
Ted Lilley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As a side note, I'm familiar with the term currying from a friend who
learned ML and Scheme quite some time ago. Not sure if that's the true
origin, but it was a sufficiently different context from Python (or at
least I thought) that I didn't want to rely
Summarized Suggestions for the Python Team, PSF, Community):
-
-
-
An automated-build-process-system should allow community-members to add
their targets (e.g. MinGW) into an special incubation section, which
does not in any way affect the main section (which contains the
official production
gargonx wrote:
I think there's a problem with the code:
py decode_replacements.update([(std[key], key) for key in std])
py decode_replacements.update([(ext[key], key) for key in ext])
when i run this i get an error:
AttributeError: keys
I can't get that figured out
Can you show the part of your
rbt wrote:
Jeff Shannon wrote:
You could probably also do this as a factory function, rather than as
a class (also untested!):
def Wrapper(func):
def wrapped(self, *args, **kwargs):
s, r = func(self, *args, **kwargs)
if s != 'OK':
raise NotOK((s,r))
return
Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
Reinhold Birkenfeld wrote:
My solution (which may not be the fastest or most effective, but
till
now is the shortest wink and it works):
[snip RB]
A recursive solution (around twice as fast as the above, though very
slow still...)
[snip RB2]
Another one:
Hi everyone,
I've been planning to move to Python from PHP for some time now. I use
PHP extensively for web scripting, with mod_php, Apache, and a DB (I
would characterize my knowledge of PHP as advanced). Here are three
stumbling blocks I've experienced, for which I couldn't seem to find
any
Eric Pederson wrote:
From: Xah Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED]
©for group in interm:
what do the funny little ©s stand for?
... import unicodedata as ucd; ucd.name('©'.decode('cp1252'))
'COPYRIGHT SIGN'
Xah is asserting his right to be recognised as the author of his
artistic creations, line by
Here are a couple of pointers. I agree with Michele that it would be
nice to have some kind of standardization. Maybe this would be worth a
post to the Web-SIG ?
- I posted a 70-line recipe on the Python Cookbook, a sort of poor man's
HTMLGen called HTMLTags
All looks like good news, especially PyQt4 - one question, if it's
statically linked with Qt4, will it still work with things like py2exe?
I guess it just won't need qt-mt4.dll?
I'm getting a 404 on the new SIP:
http://www.river-bank.demon.co.uk/download/QScintilla/qscintilla-1.61-gpl-1.5.tar.gz
Hi,
2) Session management. Cookie-based sessions in PHP are pretty
transparent, with a small library of basic functions that do 95% of
what anyone may need to store session data in serialized files and
associate them with cookies. I've seen python code that accomplishes
this, but so far no
On Sunday 20 February 2005 8:42 pm, Simon John wrote:
All looks like good news, especially PyQt4 - one question, if it's
statically linked with Qt4, will it still work with things like py2exe?
Should do.
I guess it just won't need qt-mt4.dll?
The binary will be provided for the Windows GPL
The python-based zope application server has session management.
Togther
with a built-in user and access rights management.
...
This can be done in zope if you name a variable name:list. That then
will
give you the variable as list regardless of the number of occurences.
Thank you. My impression
Stan (part of nevow, which is part of twisted) is a nice python syntax
for building HTML - I like the use of () and [] to separate attributes
from sub-elements.
For example:
class Greeter(rend.Page):
def greet(self, context, data):
return random.choice([Hello, Greetings, Hi]), ,
I learned Friday night that the hi-fi talk is our most popular tape.
This page:
http://www.belt.demon.co.uk/product/Cable_Controversy/Cable_Controversy.htm
Gives a somewhat different take on the controversy, almost certainly
bizarre. It's a long page and the interesting part is near the end.
The
I was playing with email package and discovrered this strange kind of
behaviour:
import email.Message
m = email.Message.Message()
m['a'] = '123'
print m
From nobody Mon Feb 21 00:12:27 2005
a: 123
for i in m: print i
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
File stdin, line 1, in ?
File
BrainDead [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I believe that you are wasting your time. Looking at your email
address, this may well be relevant.
[ 4-line URL snipped ]
Thanks for the historical reference. Please consider a visit to
tinyurl.com before posting a monster like that... :^)
Nick
--
#
Thank you. My impression of Zope in the past has been that it does what
I need, along with 10,000 other things I don't (built in WebDAV
server?!), but clearly I owe it another chance. I've been initially
The apache has a built in webdav server too - is that a reason _not_ to use
it? If you
great thanks
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KirbyBase is a simple, plain-text, database management system written in
Python. It can be used either embedded in a python script or in a
client/server, multi-user mode. You use python code to express your
queries instead of having to use another language such as SQL.
KirbyBase is
I don't believe you can use the test for a __iter__ attribute in this
case, for the following reason:
c1 = 'abc'
c2 = ['de', 'fgh', 'ijkl']
hasattr(c1, '__iter__')
False
hasattr(c2, '__iter__')
True
for i in c1: print i=%s is an element of c1 % repr(i)
...
i='a' is an element of c1
i='b' is
Michal Migurski wrote:
Thank you. My impression of Zope in the past has been that it does what
I need, along with 10,000 other things I don't (built in WebDAV
server?!), but clearly I owe it another chance. I've been initially
attracted to mod_python because of its raw simplicity and its
On 18/02/05, Peter Otten ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Rory Campbell-Lange wrote:
#!/usr/bin/python
import cgi
print Content-type: text/html\n\n
print hi
Gives me the following in my browser:
'''
hi
Content-type: text/html
hi
'''
Why are there two 'hi's?
You
Maybe this can help you get it working on OS X:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.mod-python/4039
But as stated in my other post, you may want to take a look at your
other options first. Web development with Python is really nothing like
PHP, unless you really want it to be.
--
Brian
Terry Hancock wrote:
But you probably shouldn't do that. You should probably just test to
see if the object is iterable --- does it have an __iter__ method?
Which might look like this:
if hasattr(a, '__iter__'):
print 'a' quacks like a duck
Martin Miller top-posted:
I don't believe you
Jonas Meurer wrote:
key1 isn't a valid parameter, to supply an empty key you would write
script.py?key1=key2=foo
Then cgi.FieldStorage also includes key1.
great, it works. but is there no way to use single keywords as GET
argument?
You could manually parse the request string (CGI stores the
Michal Migurski wrote:
Thank you. My impression of Zope in the past has been that it does what
I need, along with 10,000 other things I don't (built in WebDAV
server?!), but clearly I owe it another chance. I've been initially
attracted to mod_python because of its raw simplicity and its
Michael Hoffman wrote:
That said, I still use file() instead of open(). I think that:
for line in file(mytext.txt):
makes a lot more sense than:
for line in open(mytext.txt):
I guess it's because the first option sounds a lot more like English.
Call me a space-waster (or a waste of space ;-) but
François Pinard wrote:
[Michael Hoffman]
To be honest I doubt open will be extended in this manner.
I did not read Guido's arguments for a while, so I may remember them
wrongly.
No, I think you remember them the same way I do.
So, take me with a grain of salt. I would not think Guido is
arguing
Martin v. Löwis:
So I have to guess what you could have meant. If you want
to be understood, you might have phrased the question like
this:
Should I take answers from people which do not respect coherence
of writings serious?
The main grammatical problem with the question is the use of
Ilias Lazaridis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Now it's really time to close this thread.
I suspect this will fall of deaf ears, but I have to mention that you
do not get to close threads on Usenet. You can excuse yourself from
this one and stop replying to comments, but you don't get to
Ah yes, that Informit article helped endlessly - I'm all done now - got
the backend to fetch the info from the server every 2secs using a
QThread, then it pass the data back to the GUI frontend by raising a
custom event!
Thanks for all the help folks, now I'm off to compile the new PyQt 3.14
;-)
Roman Suzi wrote:
I think that if any object (from standard library at least) doesn't support
iteration, it should clearly state so.
My guess is that 'for' causes the use of 'm[0]', which is (rightfully) an
error...
Can this behaviour of email be considered a bug?
Is there a good case to iterate
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