Re: 'isa' keyword

2005-09-03 Thread Bengt Richter
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 21:25:20 -0500, D H [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: talin at acm dot org wrote: Although I realize the perils of even suggesting polluting the Python namespace with a new keyword, I often think that it would be useful to consider defining an operator for testing whether or not an

Re: defining classes

2005-09-03 Thread Steve Holden
LeRoy Lee wrote: I have been searching for the answer to this as it will determine how I use classes. Here are two bits of code. [snip already well-quoted examples] I can't figure out why it is working this way. I figure I must be thinking about this wrong. I was thinking that I could

Re: urllib.urlopen doesn't work

2005-09-03 Thread Steve Holden
Josef Cihal wrote: Hallo, i need a help with module URLLIB. I am trying to open url via: -urllib.urlopen ('http://brokerjet.ecetra.com/at/markets/stocks/indices.phtml?notation=92866') Problem is, that I am always redirecting to - LOGIN page (www.brokerjet.at

Re: Problem with response object

2005-09-03 Thread Steve Holden
Harish Kotian wrote: Hi Steve I copied the lines from your mail and again got the error. I am only pasting the relevant error lines below. • Error Type: Python ActiveX Scripting Engine (0x80020009) Traceback (most recent call last): File Script Block , line 1, in ?

Re: Problem with response object

2005-09-03 Thread Steve Holden
Harish Kotian wrote: Hi Steve Thank you for getting back. I suspect I am having problem with the response object in Python. I also tried with response.write it didn't work. I pasted your code into my page and tried it. I am again pasting the code followed by the error page. I shall be

python logo

2005-09-03 Thread Xah Lee
i noticed that Python uses various logos: http://python.org/pics/pythonHi.gif http://python.org/pics/PyBanner038.gif http://python.org/pics/PyBanner037.gif http://python.org/pics/PythonPoweredSmall.gif http://wiki.python.org/pics/PyBanner057.gif is this some decision that python should use

Re: To the python-list moderator

2005-09-03 Thread Fredrik Lundh
Terry Reedy wrote: What's happening is that Spambayes is marking the message as UNSURE. The message that mailman sends to the sender is unfortunate. The Message has a suspicious header notice is misleading because the user did not have any header in their message that caused it to be

Re: Help for NewBies at WikiBooks

2005-09-03 Thread Do Re Mi chel La Si Do
Hi ! I had read the article on Python's concept Metaclass: zero error in the content ! @-salutations Michel Claveau -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: python logo

2005-09-03 Thread Steve Holden
Xah Lee wrote: i noticed that Python uses various logos: http://python.org/pics/pythonHi.gif http://python.org/pics/PyBanner038.gif http://python.org/pics/PyBanner037.gif http://python.org/pics/PythonPoweredSmall.gif http://wiki.python.org/pics/PyBanner057.gif is this some decision

Re: PyBool_FromLong

2005-09-03 Thread Reinhold Birkenfeld
Michael Hoffman wrote: Andrew MacKeith wrote: In the C API Docs, the signature of PyBool from long seems to be incorrect. int PyBool_FromLong(long v) Returns Py_True or Py_False depending on the truth value of v. New in version 2.3. The description would suggest: PyObject*

Re: python logo

2005-09-03 Thread Michele Petrazzo
Xah Lee ha scritto: i noticed that Python uses various logos: Ok, this are not a logo, but better image are this: http://python.org/pics/PythonIndented_Back.jpg Michele -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: python logo

2005-09-03 Thread Xah Lee
what's the decision? any reference to the discussion? i thought it is better for Python to have one single recognizable logo. Perhaps python doesn't have a logo and the official python people decided it shouldn't or just doesn't have one currently? of course, a logo helps in identity and as well

Re: python logo

2005-09-03 Thread Tim Churches
Xah Lee wrote: i noticed that Python uses various logos: http://python.org/pics/pythonHi.gif http://python.org/pics/PyBanner038.gif http://python.org/pics/PyBanner037.gif http://python.org/pics/PythonPoweredSmall.gif http://wiki.python.org/pics/PyBanner057.gif is this some decision that python

Re: Proposal: add sys to __builtins__

2005-09-03 Thread tiissa
Michael Hoffman wrote: To the contrary, I agree with Larry Wall that laziness is one of the cardinal virtues of a programmer. There's lazy and too lazy. You don't want to be too lazy to even get out of bed to code in Python. Of course, with Perl, that's entirely another mattress^Wmatter.

Re: python logo

2005-09-03 Thread Diez B. Roggisch
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. - Ralph Waldo Emerson Tim C PS Yes, I know that I shouldn't feed the trolls (or hobgoblins), but I invoke Screwtape's Defence: other people who should know better don't seem to be able to resist the temptation either...

Re: 'isa' keyword

2005-09-03 Thread Devan L
talin at acm dot org wrote: Thanks for all the respones :) I realized up front that this suggestion is unlikely to gain approval, for reasons eloquently stated above. However, there are still some interesting issues raised that I would like to discuss. Let me first respond to a few of the

Re: python logo

2005-09-03 Thread Devan L
Xah Lee wrote: what's the decision? any reference to the discussion? i thought it is better for Python to have one single recognizable logo. Perhaps python doesn't have a logo and the official python people decided it shouldn't or just doesn't have one currently? of course, a logo helps in

How to identify which interface a broadcast packet comes in on?

2005-09-03 Thread Lincoln Yeoh
Hi, If I have a program listening on 0.0.0.0:(someport) on all interfaces, how do I know which network interface a broadcast packet is coming in on - assuming Linux and _many_ interfaces. And how do I set which interface a frame will leave on, assuming I'm sending a raw frame (no IP address, just

embedding python in C, working but with exception at the end

2005-09-03 Thread brobigi
well I manage to figure it out myself. I'm using Bloodshed Dev-cpp Here's the code: #include python.h #include stdio.h int main(int argc, char* argv[]) { double answer = 0; PyObject *modname, *mod, *mdict, *func, *stringarg, *args, *rslt; Py_Initialize(); modname =

Re: 'isa' keyword

2005-09-03 Thread phil hunt
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 00:45:19 -0500, Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not talking about a change in *paradigm* merely a change in *syntax*; this: receiver selector argument would mean the same as the current Python: receiver.selector(argument) Aah, I see. I had assumed

Re: Find day of week from month and year

2005-09-03 Thread Paul McGuire
Donn, You didn't look closely enough at those results. The OP's point was that he did not know how to set all the tuple values correctly. Here's a clearer example, I think: import time print time.asctime((2005,9,1,0,0,0,0,0,0)) print time.asctime((2005,9,1,0,0,0,1,0,0)) print

Re: python logo

2005-09-03 Thread Fredrik Lundh
Tim Churches wrote: PPS Emerson's assertion might well apply not just to Python logos, but also, ahem, to certain aspects of the Python standard library. you've read the python style guide, I presume? http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0008.html /F --

Re: embedding python in C, working but with exception at the end

2005-09-03 Thread Fredrik Lundh
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Program crashes at line Py_Finalize(). Program tries to read some memory location and suffer run time exception. PyTuple_SetItem steals a reference, so changing Py_XDECREF(stringarg); Py_XDECREF(args); to just Py_XDECREF(args); might fix the problem. /F

Re: Bug in string.find; was: Re: Proposed PEP: New style indexing,was Re: Bug in slice type

2005-09-03 Thread Scott David Daniels
Bengt Richter wrote: On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 14:16:28 GMT, Ron Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] The problem with negative index's are that positive index's are zero based, but negative index's are 1 based. Which leads to a non symmetrical situations. Although it is _way_ too late to try

Re: embedding python in C, working but with exception at the end

2005-09-03 Thread jepler
I see a couple of problems. First, because I'm using Unix, where filenames are case-sensitive, I had to '#include Python.h' instead of '#include python.h'. Next, it looks like the behavior that '.' is placed on sys.path isn't done automatically when embedding. So I had to set the environment

Re: Decrypting GPG/PGP email messages

2005-09-03 Thread Alessandro Bottoni
Piet van Oostrum wrote: What benefit is there in encrypting the messages? It would only prevent people intercepting the message from seeing what's inside, but it won't give you any additional protection on the server. You are right. Bad guys can still try to send garbage to my system and, with

pyNMS

2005-09-03 Thread Colin J. Williams
The pyNMS package is available for network management using Linux. Is there anything similar for Win32? Colin W. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Problems with Python for Windows extensions

2005-09-03 Thread KK
the code below is taken from M$ technet as an example on using vb script to do a replace all in word: Const wdReplaceAll = 2 Set objWord = CreateObject(Word.Application) objWord.Visible = True Set objDoc = objWord.Documents.Open(K:\Development\Fabricbase\prod\Test.doc) Set objSelection =

Re: Find day of week from month and year

2005-09-03 Thread Peter Hansen
Paul Rubin wrote: Peter Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (And, if I were optimizing, I would of course dispense with the dynamic creation of the static table upon every execution of expiration(), and move it outside the function.) Replacing it with a tuple might be enough for that. You're

Re: using common lisp with python.

2005-09-03 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thank you all for the advice, I think I'll be writing my lisp code in python. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: How to identify which interface a broadcast packet comes in on?

2005-09-03 Thread Jorgen Grahn
On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 18:46:05 +0800, Lincoln Yeoh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, If I have a program listening on 0.0.0.0:(someport) on all interfaces, how do I know which network interface a broadcast packet is coming in on - assuming Linux and _many_ interfaces. And how do I set which

Re: Find day of week from month and year

2005-09-03 Thread Jorgen Grahn
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 20:53:44 -0400, Peter Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Carsten Haese wrote: On Fri, 2005-09-02 at 16:46, Laguna wrote: def expiration(year, month): weekday = calendar.weekday(year, month, 1) table = [19, 18, 17, 16, 15, 21, 20] return table[weekday] ... True,

Re: Extend Python

2005-09-03 Thread Jorgen Grahn
On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 19:09:55 +0200, Filip Dreger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My Question: Swig offers some great features but is to basic for us. Is there another program that creates more readble code that can be easily edited? How much work is it to write our own wrappers? Not too much, and

Managing events

2005-09-03 Thread cantabile
Hi, I have a class (a gui) with buttons and other controls. A button, for example, has a callback method, so that writing b = Button(label, OnClick) will call the global OnClick method. Now, if I want the OnClick method to call some of my main class methods, I need to write: UI =

Re: Sockets: code works locally but fails over LAN

2005-09-03 Thread n00m
Bryan wrote: Do you want to be a network engineer? lol... definetely not! It's just my curiosity. At my work my tools are: vba, vbs, jet-sql (ms access), t-sql (ms sql server). The pretty humble set. My first two guess are: The client is trying to make more than one connection.

Re: Decrypting GPG/PGP email messages

2005-09-03 Thread Paul Rubin
Alessandro Bottoni [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm going to use my own implementation of OTP because the existing mechanism are devoted to protect the remote login channel and cannot be easily adapted to my weird e-mail-based mechanism. Anyway, I'm going to use a (encrypted) very long

Re: Bug in string.find

2005-09-03 Thread Ron Adam
Terry Reedy wrote: b[-1:] = ['Z']# replaces last item b[-1:-0] = ['Z'] # this doesn't work If you are using negative index slices, you need to check for end conditions because you can't address the end of the slice in a sequential/numerical way. OK, now I understand your

Re: 'isa' keyword

2005-09-03 Thread Steve Holden
phil hunt wrote: On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 00:45:19 -0500, Steve Holden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not talking about a change in *paradigm* merely a change in *syntax*; this: receiver selector argument would mean the same as the current Python: receiver.selector(argument) Aah, I see. I

Re: pickling the objects returned by array.array()

2005-09-03 Thread Reinhold Birkenfeld
Raymond Hettinger wrote: John Machin wrote: Looks like arrays are NOW (2.4.1) pickleable but not unpickleable Please file a bug report and assign to me. Done. http://python.org/sf/1281383 Reinhold -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Sockets: code works locally but fails over LAN

2005-09-03 Thread Bryan Olson
n00m wrote: Your last version works like a champ. It easily handles up to 5 instances of my.vbs! Except of this thing: AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'SHUT_WR' Seems it's a pure Unix constant. No, my guess is that you're running an old version of Python. The constant

Re: Bug in string.find; was: Re: Proposed PEP: New style indexing,was Re: Bug in slice type

2005-09-03 Thread Ron Adam
Bengt Richter wrote: IMO the problem is that the index sign is doing two jobs, which for zero-based reverse indexing have to be separate: i.e., to show direction _and_ a _signed_ offset which needs to be realtive to the direction and base position. Yes, that's definitely part of it. A

Re: Sockets: code works locally but fails over LAN

2005-09-03 Thread Peter Hansen
n00m wrote: Bryan wrote: PS Yes! Your last version works like a champ. It easily handles up to 5 instances of my.vbs! Except of this thing: AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'SHUT_WR' Seems it's a pure Unix constant. Definitely not. Are you sure you've got a proper Python

Re: plotting with gnuplot.py

2005-09-03 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks for the response Varun, I guess I still not sure the distingtion betweein gnuplot.py and its implentation in scipy. -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Bug in string.find; was: Re: Proposed PEP: New style indexing,wasRe: Bug in slice type

2005-09-03 Thread Terry Reedy
Ron Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (I was wondering why list's couldn't have len,min, and max attribute that are updated when ever the list is modified in place of using len,min, and max functions? Python's list and, I believe, other builtin roster objects do

Re: Managing events

2005-09-03 Thread Steve Holden
cantabile wrote: Hi, I have a class (a gui) with buttons and other controls. A button, for example, has a callback method, so that writing b = Button(label, OnClick) will call the global OnClick method. Now, if I want the OnClick method to call some of my main class methods, I

Re: Managing events

2005-09-03 Thread Rob Williscroft
cantabile wrote in news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] in comp.lang.python: Hi, I have a class (a gui) with buttons and other controls. A button, for example, has a callback method, so that writing b = Button(label, OnClick) will call the global OnClick method. Now, if I want the OnClick

Submitting doc bug reports without SF registration

2005-09-03 Thread Terry Reedy
In response to posts about the overhead of registering as SourceForge to submit quick doc typo/bug reports, I sent an email to docs AT python.org (== Fred Drake) about submitting via that address instead. He responded that he really does not want specific action items sent there because such

Re: Sockets: code works locally but fails over LAN

2005-09-03 Thread n00m
1. Python 2.3.4 2. Win98 and Win2k Professional -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

ANN: PyInstaller 1.0 in the works: package your Python app into a single-file executable

2005-09-03 Thread Giovanni Bajo
Hello, http://pyinstaller.hpcf.upr.edu/ PyInstaller is a program that packages Python programs into stand-alone executables, under both Windows and Linux. This is similar to the famous py2exe, but PyInstaller is also able to build fully-contained (single file) executables, while py2exe can only

Re: Sockets: code works locally but fails over LAN

2005-09-03 Thread Bryan Olson
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: Bryan Olson declaimed the following in comp.lang.python: No, my guess is that you're running an old version of Python. The constant was added in the source on 27 Nov 2003; I'm not Are you sure of that 2003? Yes, but that's when it went into the source, in

descriptors for container items

2005-09-03 Thread Brock Filer
I personally would first try to dump the quotes and use standard attributes -- countries.us.Colorado... -- and the __get/set/delattr__ methods. If I do that, the attributes (that was a stupid name for me to choose) and children would have to not share any names with each other, with the

Re: PyChecker lives, version 0.8.15 released

2005-09-03 Thread Al Christians
Neal Norwitz wrote: Special thanks to Ken Pronovici. He did a lot of work for this release and helped ensure it occurred. Version 0.8.15 of PyChecker is available. It's been over a year since the last release. Wow, time really does fly. Since it's been so long I'm sure I screwed

Digest MD5 authentication over using ZSI

2005-09-03 Thread trapeze . jsg
Hi. I am trying to get through to Microsoft MapPoint Services using ZSI for soap handling. I can generate the service classes and also the soap-requests generated by the service classes seem to be OK. The problem I am facing is that I can't seem to authenticate myself. I have made a small change

Re: python logo

2005-09-03 Thread Tim Churches
Fredrik Lundh wrote: Tim Churches wrote: PPS Emerson's assertion might well apply not just to Python logos, but also, ahem, to certain aspects of the Python standard library. you've read the python style guide, I presume? http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0008.html A Foolish

Language Work Benches in Py

2005-09-03 Thread yoda
Hi, I recently read Martin Fowler's article on language workbenches and domain specific languages(http://www.martinfowler.com/articles/languageWorkbench.html). I then had the pleasure of reading Rainer Jowsig's implementation of the sample in

Re: Sockets: code works locally but fails over LAN

2005-09-03 Thread n00m
Bryan; Look at how I corrected your the very first version (see added arguments in both functions). And now it really can handle multiple connections! import socket, thread sqls_host, sqls_port = '127.0.0.1', 1433 proxy_host, proxy_port = '127.0.0.1', 1434 # How I tested it: # sqls_host,

Re: descriptors for container items

2005-09-03 Thread Terry Reedy
Brock Filer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I personally would first try to dump the quotes and use standard attributes -- countries.us.Colorado... -- and the __get/set/delattr__ methods. If I do that, the attributes (that was a stupid name for me to choose) and

Re: plotting with gnuplot.py

2005-09-03 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Still having some issues plotting: In attempting as explained above: import Gnuplot,Numeric filename = ('Default.PL1') data = scipy.io.array_import.read_array(filename) y = data[:,1] x = data[:,0] z = data[:,2] //I think u need to take the transpose of this column before plotting..

os.system(rls) prints to screen??

2005-09-03 Thread Xah Lee
does anyone know why the folllowing prints to the screen? # python import os os.system(rls) Xah [EMAIL PROTECTED] ∑ http://xahlee.org/ -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Add lists to class?

2005-09-03 Thread Mike Meyer
BBands [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why don't you use a real list instead? I am using lists... I just showed the naming schema. Here is how they are implemented. for var in range(len(self.symbols)): setattr(self, _ + str(var), []) That's not the list he's talking about. And I agree with

Re: Add lists to class?

2005-09-03 Thread Mike Meyer
Paolino [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mike Meyer wrote: BBands [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have a list with some strings in in it, 'one', 'two' 'three' and so on. I would like to add lists to a class with those names. I have no way of knowing what will be in the list or how long the list will be in

Re: os.system(rls) prints to screen??

2005-09-03 Thread Robert Kern
Xah Lee wrote: does anyone know why the folllowing prints to the screen? # python import os os.system(rls) os.system() starts a shell and has the shell execute the program as a separate process. If you want to get the output of the given program, then use the subprocess module. -- Robert

Command config, quitting, binary, Timer

2005-09-03 Thread bearophileHUGS
Hello, I have four things to ask or to suggest, sorry if they seem basic or already discussed. --- I am still ignorant about Tkinter. This little program, after pressing the Go eats more and more RAM, is it normal? Can it be avoided? (In normal programs this is isn't a real

Re: global interpreter lock

2005-09-03 Thread Mike Meyer
Dennis Lee Bieber [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 22:44:06 -0400, Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] declaimed the following in comp.lang.python: I don't know what Ada offers. Java gives you pseudo-monitors. I'm From the days of mil-std 1815, Ada has supported tasks which

Re: Command config, quitting, binary, Timer

2005-09-03 Thread Peter Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am still ignorant about Tkinter. This little program, after pressing the Go eats more and more RAM, is it normal? Can it be avoided? (In normal programs this is isn't a real problem). ! import Tkinter ! def dogo(): ! while 1: !

Re: os.system(rls) prints to screen??

2005-09-03 Thread Steve Holden
Xah Lee wrote: does anyone know why the folllowing prints to the screen? # python import os os.system(rls) Xah [EMAIL PROTECTED] ∑ http://xahlee.org/ It only prints to the screen when standard output of the invoking process is the screen. The sub-process forked by os.system

Re: Submitting doc bug reports without SF registration

2005-09-03 Thread Paul Rubin
Terry Reedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1. A DocImprovement wiki. People could optionally sign up for update reports on specific wiki pages. 2. A new SF tracker, only for doc bugs, that would accept anonymous submissions. The other trackers require login because most items need

descriptors for container items

2005-09-03 Thread Brock Filer
If I do that, the attributes (that was a stupid name for me to choose) and children would have to not share any names with each other, Since multiple objects can indeed have duplicate attribute names, and such duplication is rampant in Python, I am not sure what you mean.

how to do this?

2005-09-03 Thread Justin Straube
Greetings Pythonistas. Im looking for a way to write this but not sure where or how to begin. As the user enters or removes characters into/from sEnt I would like for set_info() to set infVar with the correct value. The same as how IDLE shows the line and column in the lower right corner.

gmail access

2005-09-03 Thread gerald gillespie
how do I access my new Gmail account [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ --

Re: how to do this?

2005-09-03 Thread Steve Holden
Justin Straube wrote: Greetings Pythonistas. Im looking for a way to write this but not sure where or how to begin. As the user enters or removes characters into/from sEnt I would like for set_info() to set infVar with the correct value. The same as how IDLE shows the line and column in the

[ python-Feature Requests-1281053 ] non-sequence map() arguments for optimization

2005-09-03 Thread SourceForge.net
Feature Requests item #1281053, was opened at 2005-09-03 01:30 Message generated for change (Settings changed) made by birkenfeld You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailatid=355470aid=1281053group_id=5470 Please note that this message will contain a full copy of

[ python-Bugs-1281291 ] Erroneous \url command in python.sty

2005-09-03 Thread SourceForge.net
Bugs item #1281291, was opened at 2005-09-03 17:18 Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by Item Submitter You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailatid=105470aid=1281291group_id=5470 Please note that this message will contain a full copy of

[ python-Bugs-1281408 ] Py_BuildValue k format units don't work with big values

2005-09-03 Thread SourceForge.net
Bugs item #1281408, was opened at 2005-09-04 01:12 Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by Item Submitter You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailatid=105470aid=1281408group_id=5470 Please note that this message will contain a full copy of

[ python-Bugs-1281383 ] array.arrays are not unpickleable

2005-09-03 Thread SourceForge.net
Bugs item #1281383, was opened at 2005-09-03 15:16 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by rhettinger You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailatid=105470aid=1281383group_id=5470 Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment

[ python-Bugs-687747 ] _iscommand() in webbrowser module

2005-09-03 Thread SourceForge.net
Bugs item #687747, was opened at 2003-02-17 07:17 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by ekid You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detailatid=105470aid=687747group_id=5470 Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread,