AlbaClause [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that all Linux passwords are
encrypted whether you enable shadow passwords or not. I believe that when
you enable shadow passwords, the encrypted passwords are stored in a file
other than 'passwd'. Is this not
At Thursday 10/8/2006 21:54, bruce wrote:
the issue i'm having is that i'm going to have to compare multiple rows of
information to the information in the db. so essentially i'd have to do a
hit to the db, for each row of information i want to compare if i did it
your way... (which was what i
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], len wrote:
mycode = TagToSQL['mySQLfieldname'] = Tagfile['Value']
exec mycode
Why do you use ``exec`` here? Why not simply::
TagToSQL['mySQLfieldname'] = Tagfile['Value']
Ciao,
Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Op 10-aug-2006, om 19:18 heeft Simon Forman het volgende geschreven:
It might be a good idea to write a brief script to print out
sys.platform, platform.platform(), platform.uname(), etc.. and
post it
here for people to run and post their results.
Peace,
~Simon
--
Hi
i'd like to know, is there any package like pykpass for windows? Or how
to use this under windows. I need to authenticate users with kerberos
under windows environment and have no idea how.
Thanks for help.
Kamil Malinka
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Hi all,
When I want setup my script:
I write:
from distutils.core import setup
setup(name=myscript,
version='1.0',
scripts=[myscripts.py])
or some else example,error is
Traceback (most recent call last):
File pyshell#5, line 1, in -toplevel-
setup(name=myscript,
[Michiel Sikma]
| So if you run this script:
| --
| import platform
| platform.platform()
| platform.uname()
| --
| You will get all the information that is necessary. And then
| you just
| need to provide it with a human-determined name of the operating
| system you're using.
If you're
Mr BigSmoke wrote:
Tnx Jay... as i supposed there's no easy solution... I just thought
that, maybe, being on an intranet there was a possible solution...
About pysvn a tortoise... i do use tortoiseSVN and t works really
really fine.. we (developers) use it, but i'm writting server for
normal
Bayazee wrote:
hi
can we hide a python code ?
if i want to write a commercial software can i hide my source code from
users access ?
we can conver it to pyc but this file can decompiled ... so ...!!
It's just the same with java byte-code or machine code. FWIW, I had a
cracked (and localised)
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
(snip)
If you really want something which compiles to machine code, then Python
is not the language for you. Use another language.
But that won't protect your software from piracy anyway.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Hi all,
some time ago I've seen an interesting component framework for Python
but I don't remember the name. I remember only one example. There were
two components: Wheel and Car, Wheel were then inserted four times into
Car and so on. This framework has had lazy instantiation of child
components.
Hello NG,
that may sound a silly question, but I didn't find anything really
clear about the issue of reading unformatted big endian files with
Python. What I was doing till now, was using Fortran to read those
files and compile this Fortran extension using F2PY. Now that it seems
that no
John Machin wrote:
If you want to distribute obfuscated code, consider writing it in perl
:-)
LOL
That's really strong protection. Machine code is too easy
to reverse engineer. :)
Regards,
Rob
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
I can access to a file with the command:
file_obj = open ( D:\My documents\Textfile.txt,'r')
When I now try to read a file with the following command:
file_obj = open (D:\My documents\File.ods,'r') it doesn't function.
The extension ods is coming from OpenOffice.org Calc.
Why ?
jean-jeanot
John,
I have a notion about translating stuff in a mess and could help you with
the translation. But it may be that the conversion
from DOC to formatted test is a bigger problem. Loading the files into Word and
saving them in a different format may not be a
practical option if you have
2Good4You-Veki(Cro) wrote:
Hi all,
When I want setup my script:
I write:
from distutils.core import setup
setup(name=myscript,
version='1.0',
scripts=[myscripts.py])
or some else example,error is
Traceback (most recent call last):
File pyshell#5, line 1, in
Hi,
simply use file_obj = open (D:\My documents\File.ods,'rb') for
opening file in binary access mode, which is required for binary files
on MS Windows.
Honza
jean-jeanot wrote:
I can access to a file with the command:
file_obj = open ( D:\My documents\Textfile.txt,'r')
When I now try to
Okay, I have been handed a python project and working through it I have
had to add a report. I am returning 10 variables the results of an SQL
Query
and as usual the number of results vary from 1 result to 10 results so
I
implemented a check to see if the array item was empty or not. The code
is
Andrea Gavana wrote:
err=8 means that, if an error occours in
reading the file,
it should go to the label 8 continue and continue reading the file
Silently ignoring errors when reading a file doesn't sound like a good
idea to me at all, especially if different records have different
formats.
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Fuzzydave
wrote:
but regardless i am getting the error below and i can't seen to resolve
this, what am i
doing wrong?
Traceback (most recent call last): File
/home/phillipsd/work/medusa-new/htdocs/pricingrep.cgi, line 326, in ?
if historyRep[8]==None: IndexError:
Hello John,
Silently ignoring errors when reading a file doesn't sound like a good
idea to me at all, especially if different records have different
formats.
Yeah, you're right, but the file itself is quite big and I am
interested only in a small part of it. Moreover, the sequence
jean-jeanot wrote:
I can access to a file with the command:
file_obj = open ( D:\My documents\Textfile.txt,'r')
With a space before the drive letter? I don't think so.
When asking questions, *don't* type what you thought you used,
copy/paste what you actually used.
When I now try to read a
`historyRep` seems to be shorter than you think it is. Try printing it
too see what it actually contains.
Ciao,
Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch
HistoryRep is an array value so historyRep[0] to [7] all have values
in them but historyRep[8] and [9] do not as the query does not always
return a
On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 17:28:59 -0700
Simon Forman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
# There is a better way to check for exhausted StringIO (Note that
# input is a python built-in and should not be used for a variable
# name):
Right, thanks for pointing it out.
# import StringIO
# s =
On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 17:35:27 -0700
enigmadude [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
# 2. I've never done this, but you might be able to encrypt or otherwise
# turn you modules into binary form, and then use a clever import
# hook.
Please observe that whatever the clever import hook is, it actually
needs to
On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 16:42:47 -0700
Simon Forman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
# 6.) There's a single return statement.
#
# I forget now where I picked this up, but it's served me well for
# many years: Procedures, functions, methods, etc... should have one
# exit point. Something about having fewer
On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 15:11:16 -0300
Gerhard Fiedler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
# On 2006-08-09 07:54:21, Slawomir Nowaczyk wrote:
#
# Nope. Equivalence table can look like this:
#
# Python C
# variable:a variable: a
#
Check with if history8 is not None. Won't help your problem, but it
is a bit more pythonic code ;-)
Sybren
Actually i tried that as well when i was fooling around, atm i am less
concenred
with pythonic code and making it work in the first place. The entire
program to
be fair is a bit messy
Hi ppl,
I've already posted this message through the mailing-list, but it seems
it never arrived here. Strange... Anyway:
I need to render high-quality vector graphics with Python. I was
thinking of something like 'cairo', though I need to run under win32
and can't find a pycairo package for it.
I need to render high-quality vector graphics with Python. I was
thinking of something like 'cairo', though I need to run under win32
and can't find a pycairo package for it. Suggestions?
I've had good experiences doing simple 3d vector stuff with Pygame.
It's wraps SDL so it has pretty nice
On 11/08/2006 8:35 PM, Andrea Gavana wrote:
I hope performances will not change so much: fortran is
very fast in reading files (but I use it only in this case, I love to
use Python)... well, let's see :-D
ot Well FORTRAN would have to have *something* going for it :-)
I vaguely recall in a
Fuzzydave:
I am trying to check all of the historyRep items
to check if they are empty/null/None (whatever the term is in python)
An item can't be empty in Python,and null doesn't exist, it can be the
object None. But probly that's not your case.
I did print
historyRep[8] out and it falls
Note: sometimes having a clean and readable program is better than
having a running program that you can't read, because you can fix the
the first one, and it can teach you something.
Bye,
bearophile
Thanks for your help and suggestions i'll give them a shot.
Unfortunatly when working with
Fuzzydave wrote:
HistoryRep is an array value so historyRep[0] to [7] all have values
in them but historyRep[8] and [9] do not as the query does not always
return a full 10 values. I am trying to check all of the historyRep
items
to check if they are empty/null/None (whatever the term is in
Fuzzydave wrote:
Okay, I have been handed a python project and working through it I have
had to add a report. I am returning 10 variables the results of an SQL
Query and as usual the number of results vary from 1 result to 10 results
so I implemented a check to see if the array item was empty
Hi!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I need to render high-quality vector graphics with Python. I was
thinking of something like 'cairo', though I need to run under win32
and can't find a pycairo package for it. Suggestions?
I've had good experiences doing simple 3d vector stuff with Pygame.
Jan Svec wrote:
Hi all,
some time ago I've seen an interesting component framework for Python
but I don't remember the name. I remember only one example. There were
two components: Wheel and Car, Wheel were then inserted four times into
Car and so on. This framework has had lazy
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Bytter wrote:
Hi ppl,
I've already posted this message through the mailing-list, but it seems
it never arrived here. Strange... Anyway:
I need to render high-quality vector graphics with Python. I was
thinking of something like 'cairo', though I need to run under win32
and can't find a
Bytter wrote:
Hi ppl,
I've already posted this message through the mailing-list, but it seems
it never arrived here. Strange... Anyway:
I need to render high-quality vector graphics with Python. I was
thinking of something like 'cairo', though I need to run under win32
and can't find a
That seems applicable to writing an SMTP server/daemon, but is it
necessary for a script client calling a local SendMail daemon?
Tim Williams wrote:
RFC 1123
http://www.freesoft.org/CIE/RFC/1123/109.htm
I find that a timeout of 120 seconds is the bare minimum. If the
timeout is too
Hello John,
(1) Upgrade to 2.5 as soon as it goes final -- struct's performance has
been improved.
I would love to, but I have some dependencies (like wxPython, Numeric,
py2exe and so on) for which a 2.5 stable release either doesn't exist
or is not fully tested or will break my app in some
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've seen various generator-based microthread implementations online,
but I've been wondering: has anyone used microthreads in this manner in
a game environment? Note, I am emphatically *not* referring to
Stackless, which I know has been used in a production game
Hi there,
I'm manipualating tiff images captured by a program that insists on
using annoying private tags. I want to be able to import an image that
I have created into the program but I cannot get PIL to save the
private tag. Here is a simplified version of the code I am using:
import Image
Hi there,
I have a daemon running 24/7, and I want that it executes a certain function
several times a day, as specified in an configfile (e.g.
actiontimes=10:00,12:00,19:00)
Do I have to fiddle with sched.scheduler and calc. time differences to
schedule my events, or is there another
Cameron Laird wrote:
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
Hiding source code is incompatible with Open Source software. You can hide
code, or be Open Source, but not both.
[...]
I also disagree with your characterization of Open Source.
I don't know which part of the open source movement would tolerate
Bayazee wrote:
hi
can we hide a python code ?
if i want to write a commercial software can i hide my source code from
users access ?
we can conver it to pyc but this file can decompiled ... so ...!!
do you have any idea about this ...?
---
First
Paul Boddie wrote:
[snip..]
I've previously mentioned a very interesting paper which not only
described the reverse engineering of the Skype protocol and software
but also described how to make interoperating Skype clients. Given that
the well-financed developers spent a lot of time
Fuzzyman wrote:
Bayazee wrote:
can we hide a python code ?
if i want to write a commercial software can i hide my source code from
users access ?
we can conver it to pyc but this file can decompiled ... so ...!!
[...]
You can distribute the compiled byte-code files (*.pyc) which are
can we hide a python code ?
if i want to write a commercial software can i hide my source code from
users access ?
we can conver it to pyc but this file can decompiled ... so ...!!
All of these make it hard enough to deter most people who will ever
want to abuse your source code. Until you
Paul Boddie wrote:
Fuzzyman wrote:
Bayazee wrote:
can we hide a python code ?
if i want to write a commercial software can i hide my source code from
users access ?
we can conver it to pyc but this file can decompiled ... so ...!!
[...]
You can distribute the compiled
Hi.
How can I convert a python datetime to a timestamp? It's easy to convert
a timestamp to datetime (datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp(), but the
other way around...?)
-Simen
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Tim Chase wrote:
can we hide a python code ?
if i want to write a commercial software can i hide my source code from
users access ?
we can conver it to pyc but this file can decompiled ... so ...!!
All of these make it hard enough to deter most people who will ever
want to abuse
Fuzzyman wrote:
Paul Boddie wrote:
[Skype paper]
I'd recommend an
upgrade to any business plan which relies on obfuscation to prevent
unauthorised use or modification. Indeed, I'd recommend that any such
entrepreneur think twice about starting a traditional proprietary
software
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A way to solve your problem is to see how many elements the list
contains with
len(sequence)
cheers after your post went of to try it and it worked first time
thanks
for being helpful and plesant :)
Fuzzy
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Tim Chase wrote:
[snip]
However, it's better to have a good relationship with your
customers and know that they will adhere to licensing conditions,
rather than to try and strong-arm them into behaving a particular
way.
Don't forget that distributing your source code is more of a gift
I am looking for a GUI to put on top of my unit testing framework. I
have found http://homepage.hispeed.ch/py430/python/unittestgui.py
through google, I have been unable to get the copy results function to
run I have downloaded the editor scite that it calls and still nothing
has anyone been able
Fuzzyman wrote:
Paul Boddie wrote:
Fuzzyman wrote:
I never understand the knee-jerk reaction on this mailing list to
answer people who ask this question by telling them they don't really
want to do it...
Note your choice of words: don't really want to do it.
[...]
If you
On 11/08/2006 11:10 PM, Simen Haugen wrote:
Hi.
How can I convert a python datetime to a timestamp? It's easy to convert
a timestamp to datetime (datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp(), but the
other way around...?)
-Simen
Is the timetuple() method what you want?
# import datetime
# n =
On 11/08/2006 11:35 PM, John Machin wrote:
On 11/08/2006 11:10 PM, Simen Haugen wrote:
Hi.
How can I convert a python datetime to a timestamp? It's easy to convert
a timestamp to datetime (datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp(), but the
other way around...?)
-Simen
Is the timetuple() method
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
hi
is it possible to create excel files using python in Unix env?
if so, what module should i use?
thanks
Depending on the complexity of your data you might find the csv module
useful. It allows you to write comma
Well, I finally solved my problem. I just had to reinstall python with
the USE flags of tcl and tk.
#USE=tcl tk emerge python
And now I can use Tkinter
Thanks guys!
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
jay graves wrote:
Bytter wrote:
Hi ppl,
I've already posted this message through the mailing-list, but it seems
it never arrived here. Strange... Anyway:
I need to render high-quality vector graphics with Python. I was
thinking of something like 'cairo', though I need to run under win32
and
On 2006-08-11 07:48:33, Slawomir Nowaczyk wrote:
But let me try again, please (just one more time, if this doesn't work
either I am willing to admit I do not see a simple analogy between
Python and C variables :-)
Python C
variable: a
I'm learning how to program python. a few questions
a) I'm mostly interested in creating exe's that have to do with music
-- things to help me keep track of chord progressions, transpositions,
etc. can anyone point me in the direction of resources on this?
b) I'm also interested in created
Well, to answer my own question
http://www.averdevelopment.com/python/EasyDialogs.html
Thanks to all who responded! ;-P
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
John Machin wrote:
Bayazee wrote:
hi
can we hide a python code ?
if i want to write a commercial software can i hide my source code from
[1]
users access ?
we can conver it to pyc but this file can decompiled ... so ...!!
do you have any
Anthra Norell wrote:
John,
I have a notion about translating stuff in a mess and could help you
with the translation. But it may be that the conversion
from DOC to formatted test is a bigger problem. Loading the files into Word
and saving them in a different format may not be a
Take a look at http://sourceforge.net/projects/pycron/ . It may give
you some ideas.
Bob
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Boris Borcic wrote:
Boris Borcic wrote:
John Salerno wrote:
In this case the method must return False, because it's a wxPython
method that needs a True or False value. If it doesn't, the program
will continue even after the error message.
Just as it should do if the method returns True
Omar wrote:
b) I'm also interested in created GUI's sooner rather than later. Can
anyone point me to a fast track to doing GUI's on python?
I recommend reading wxPython in Action. It's a great starter and
reference to the wxPython GUI toolkit. Tkinter is usually considered
easier and
Paul Boddie wrote:
Fuzzyman wrote:
I never understand the knee-jerk reaction on this mailing list to
answer people who ask this question by telling them they don't really
want to do it...
Well, given the pace of technological development and the disregard in
some environments for
Simon Forman wrote:
I'm sorry to hear that. I thought it was cleaner and more
understandable than that. May I indulge in explaining it a bit? I
can, perhaps, make it clearer.
Thanks for the explanation. I find that with a little concentration,
it's not that it's hard to follow the code,
John Machin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 11/08/2006 11:35 PM, John Machin wrote:
On 11/08/2006 11:10 PM, Simen Haugen wrote:
How can I convert a python datetime to a timestamp? It's easy to convert
a timestamp to datetime (datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp(), but the
other way around...?)
Is
[Simen Haugen]
How can I convert a python datetime to a timestamp? It's easy to convert
a timestamp to datetime (datetime.datetime.fromtimestamp(), but the
other way around...?)
[John Machin]
Is the timetuple() method what you want?
# import datetime
# n = datetime.datetime.now()
# n
Hi All,
I am wondering if any have done an install of Boost for Python
embedding?
I have downoaded boost_1_33_1.exe, ran that and now have a boost_1_33_1
directory with plenty of items ine it.
I have attempted to follow some online install directions which do not
seem to work. I am using VS2005.
I
Fuzzyman wrote:
Tim Chase wrote:
[snip]
However, it's better to have a good relationship with your
customers and know that they will adhere to licensing conditions,
rather than to try and strong-arm them into behaving a particular
way.
Don't forget that distributing your source
I'm investigating a puzzling problem involving an attempt to generate a
constant containing an (IEEE 754) infinity value. (I understand that
special float values are a platform-dependent accident etc...)
The issue appears possibly to point to a bug in the Python compiler,
with it producing
Hello,
I am making a gui for the purpose that I can change the
values in a list of different criteria which is found in a text file, such as:
Name(tab)rating(tab)breast size(tab)occurrences
However as far as I know Python does not allow you to easily
change a specific line in
Roger Upole wrote:
jiccab [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Greetings.
with the following code,
olApp = Dispatch(Outlook.Application)
I am capable of getting a new instance of Outlook running. I would
like to be able to use the instance that is already
John Salerno wrote:
Omar wrote:
b) I'm also interested in created GUI's sooner rather than later. Can
anyone point me to a fast track to doing GUI's on python?
I recommend reading wxPython in Action. It's a great starter and
reference to the wxPython GUI toolkit. Tkinter is usually
Ben Sizer wrote:
It's worth remembering that there is a massive amount of software that
has nothing to do with 'infrastructure', that won't need to be
maintained, or upgraded. Examples include most retail software for the
home or small office, and most entertainment software. Developers of
However as far as I know Python does not allow you to easily change a
specific line in a text file. You have to place the whole file to memory,
change what you need to and then write the file back after deleting the
previous information.
Assuming this is true, how do i find where the tabs
Sybren Stuvel wrote:
Peter Hansen enlightened us with:
I'm investigating a puzzling problem involving an attempt to
generate a constant containing an (IEEE 754) infinity value. (I
understand that special float values are a platform-dependent
accident etc...)
Why aren't you simply using the
You should set PYTHON_ROOT
PYTHON_VERSION environment variable first, then set the VC toolset path, compile
bjam.exe yourself and run bjam with -sTOOLS parameter.
It seems Boost has not been totally
tested under VS2005, but works fine with VS2003.
Good luck!
missdeer
Omar wrote:
I'm learning how to program python. a few questions
a) I'm mostly interested in creating exe's that have to do with music
-- things to help me keep track of chord progressions, transpositions,
etc. can anyone point me in the direction of resources on this?
b) I'm also
Omar wrote:
I'm learning how to program python. a few questions
a) I'm mostly interested in creating exe's that have to do with music
-- things to help me keep track of chord progressions, transpositions,
etc. can anyone point me in the direction of resources on this?
b) I'm also
Gerard Flanagan wrote:
Omar wrote:
I'm learning how to program python. a few questions
a) I'm mostly interested in creating exe's that have to do with music
-- things to help me keep track of chord progressions, transpositions,
etc. can anyone point me in the direction of resources
Paul Boddie wrote:
Ben Sizer wrote:
It's worth remembering that there is a massive amount of software that
has nothing to do with 'infrastructure', that won't need to be
maintained, or upgraded. Examples include most retail software for the
home or small office, and most entertainment
I saw some examples and understood for most part how to write a
setpu.py.
Since I want to bundle python and wxPython along with my
application...how can I do that.
Any code gurus can throw some pointers.
Every help is appreciated.
Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
Look for distutil and EasyInstall
I am trying to automate logging a website and have been unsuccessful. The code below is supposed to log me into the site, but changing the username/password to an incorrect combination does not cause an error or crash to be seen. My goal is to log into this page and save the cookie from the page
Sorry, but the access mode is not binary with XP Windows. Finally for
reading the file it is necessary to use a slash or a double backslash.
If the file is a simple textfile, using a backslash is perhaps not
recommended but it is functionning.
Anyway many thanks.Here is the program:
file_obj=
No one could do it any better. Good for you! - Frederic
- Original Message -
From: John Salerno [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
To: python-list@python.org
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: using python to edit a word file?
Anthra Norell wrote:
John,
I installed python 2.5b3 on my windows XP sp2 box without any issues.
I can double click the python program, and idle comes up in the command
line window. However when I run python from the command line program
cmd.exe, I get a pop-up window with the following error:
16 bit Windows Subsystem
On 11 Aug 2006 09:39:23 -0700, jean-jeanot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Anyway many thanks.Here is the program:
file_obj= open (D:/Mes documents/ADB Anna.ods,'r')
s = file_obj
s.readlines()
Please remember not to top-post :)
Try this
s = open (D:/Mes documents/ADB Anna.ods,'r')
Shuaib wrote:
Hey,
Even though I freshly installed Tcl and Tk, python still seem to have
problems accessing Tkinter module. Here is what says when I do import
Tkinter
==
Traceback (most recent call last):
File stdin, line 1, in ?
ImportError: No module named Tkinter
==
Any ideas
On 2006-08-09, Dean Card [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Okay, so here is the situation. I have need to do some on-the-fly image
creation. I have everything working great except for the last part of it,
applying a perspective type transform to the image. The transform will take
a rectangular 2D
Dear Sybrel,
I am delighted to know that you have been enlighted through my
question.
I am aware of my stupidity and I would say of my ignorance.If all
Python users were not ignorant I suppose the Python group would be
superfluous. I would suggest that if if you think that a question is
supid
Hi,
How can we freeze the python program and how will it ensure that all
the python files are packages with the programs (including python and
wxPython). Can anybody give me some pointers on this.
Every help is appreciated. Thanks.
You could freeze the Python program. That'll ensure all the
I wrote a small app in python and used wxPython in it. Now, I am trying
to create an .rpm file for linux RedHat Distro. I want the ability in
my installer to install python2.4 and wxPython too along with the .py
files which are in the project.
I am trying to use distutils. Can anybody give some
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