On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Frank Millman wrote:
> It is worth watching this -
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skYBOXE02OQ
Not in a position to watch Youtube vids at the moment. A blog post I'd
read, but a talk is not well suited to all forms of delivery... What's
it saying, can you su
"Chris Angelico" wrote in message
news:CAPTjJmr4nPA6euD-j2uNAN==h=ids1o5bdhgj0fnjkjo9wf...@mail.gmail.com...
> On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 12:27 AM, Frank Millman
> wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, the possibility of this
>> split
>> in the community continuing, to the de
On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 4:16 AM, alister
wrote:
> I have had a number of
> enjoyable holidays in the USA and 90% of the people I have met there have
> been great.
I'd go even further. I've only actually visited the US once, but
everyone was great except for *one* unpleasant experience with staff
On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 3:36 PM, Gregory Ewing
wrote:
> Rick Johnson wrote:
>>
>> *ANY* army can rape/kill women and children and raise peasant
>> villages to the ground!
>
>
> So... the villages were underground before?
*high five*
We had the same thought.
ChrisA
--
https://mail.python.org/ma
On 07/16/2014 08:35 PM, alex23 wrote:
On 15/07/2014 3:28 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
# === module params.py ===
class Params(object):
a = 1
b = 2
@property
def c(self):
return self.a**2 + self.b**2 - self.a + 1
params = Params()
del Params # hide the class
Then c
On 15/07/2014 11:57 PM, Kevin Walzer wrote:
The number of language revisions that result in deliberate, code-level
incompatibility out there is pretty small. People rightly expect that
code written for version 2.x of a language will continue to work with
version 3.x, even if 3.x is designed to go
On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Rick Johnson
wrote:
> *ANY* army can rape/kill women and children and raise peasant
> villages to the ground!
That would be "raze", unless those villages grow like potatoes.
ChrisA
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Rick Johnson wrote:
*ANY* army can rape/kill women and children and raise peasant
villages to the ground!
So... the villages were underground before?
--
Greg
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 10:18:56 PM UTC-5, Tim Roberts wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> >For what little it is worth, if any one country won World War Two, it was
> >the USSR.
> I don't think that's quite accurate. It is certainly true
> that the USSR suffered vastly more casualties than any
"Steven D'Aprano" wrote in message
news:53c66ba8$0$9505$c3e8da3$54964...@news.astraweb.com...
>
> E.g. having b"abc"[0] return 97 instead of b"a" was probably a mistake,
> but there are four versions of Python 3.x that do it that way and it's
> too late to change until Python 5000. (Python 4 is
On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 10:16:00 PM UTC-5, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> If they are "shopping" for a scripting language, that
> means they don't have one yet. Which means their users
> have no existing scripts that need to be ported from
> Python 2 to 3. Whatever language is chosen, whether it is
>
On Thu, 17 Jul 2014 13:35:24 +1000, alex23 wrote:
> It's a shame the property decorator doesn't work at the module level,
> though.
Not necessarily the property decorator, but some sort of computed
variable would be nice.
--
Steven
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
On Wed, 16 Jul 2014 17:33:44 +, Javier wrote:
> 2.8 fork anybody?
It already exists. It is called 2.7, and 2.6 before that. Python 3.0 came
out on December 3rd, 2008, a couple of weeks before the last release of
2.4 and in parallel with 2.5 (2.4.6 and 2.5.3 both came out on the 19th
Decemb
Chris “Kwpolska” Warrick writes:
> Also, the correct solution for all those is getting a sane client that
> can hide quotes and signatures.
No, there is often useful (or at least interesting) information in a
message signature block; the problem is with *some* of them, not all of
them.
And the
Abhiram R writes:
> Aah. Understood. Apologies for the "noobishness" :)
Thanks for understanding. Here is a good explanation of “Interleaved style”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style>
which is the proper etiquette for text-based discussions.
--
\ “I used
On 15/07/2014 3:28 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
# === module params.py ===
class Params(object):
a = 1
b = 2
@property
def c(self):
return self.a**2 + self.b**2 - self.a + 1
params = Params()
del Params # hide the class
Then callers just say:
from params import pa
On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Tim Roberts wrote:
> MRAB wrote:
>>On 2014-07-16 00:53, Rick Johnson wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, July 15, 2014 5:40:29 PM UTC-5, Abhiram R wrote:
>>>
>>> ...or some pretentious line
>>> about "this was sent from my i-phone" -- send that crap to the
>>> bitbucket!
>>>
>
On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 6:40 AM, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Mark Lawrence
> wrote:
>> The difference between our most illustrious resident unicode expert and rr
>
> Sorry, who is "rr"? I went looking in the referenced thread but found
> nobody with those initials. N
On Wed, 16 Jul 2014 11:50:24 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Javier wrote:
>> I think there has been a severe miscalculation, and the change in the
>> name of the interpreter python3 to python
>> http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/ is a good example of the
>> d
MRAB wrote:
>On 2014-07-16 00:53, Rick Johnson wrote:
>> On Tuesday, July 15, 2014 5:40:29 PM UTC-5, Abhiram R wrote:
>>
>> ...or some pretentious line
>> about "this was sent from my i-phone" -- send that crap to the
>> bitbucket!
>>
>"This was sent from my iPhone" == "I have an iPhone!"
Please
On Jul 15, 2014, at 3:11 AM, u2107 wrote:
> I am trying to read a file with 3 columns with col 1 and 2 as nodes/edges and
> column 3 as weight (value with decimal)
>
> I am trying to execute this code
>
>
> import networkx as nx
>
>
> G = nx.read_edgelist('file.txt', data=[("weight")])
>
Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>For what little it is worth, if any one country won World War Two, it was
>the USSR.
I don't think that's quite accurate. It is certainly true that the USSR
suffered vastly more casualties than any participant in the war,
essentially losing one entire generation of you
On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Rick Johnson
wrote:
> But i think that when the time arrives, the "someone", or
> "some entity" will inevitably decide that, whilst Python2.x
> was the best high level language available to date, it has
> many flaws that cannot be worked around "cleanly", so
> ins
On Wed, 16 Jul 2014 15:41:38 -0700, Rick Johnson wrote:
> I personally know of few major software developers, who whilst
> "shopping" for a scripting language for their API, wanted to integrate
> Python because of it's clean syntax and auto-encapsulation, but they
> where forced to choose *another
On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 12:51 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Most programming languages are written for
> J. Random Hacker, not Jランダムハッカー.
I had to paste that into Google Translate to be able to understand
what you meant (although I could guess just fine)... but to actually
see the characters, I ha
On Wed, 16 Jul 2014 18:16:16 -0700, Rick Johnson wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 6:00:16 PM UTC-5, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>> I'm not aware of any mass exodus from core Python 3 to the fork that
>> has consistently proposed to give the world Python 2.8. Do you know
>> something that I don't?
>
On Wed, 16 Jul 2014 19:20:14 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Chris Angelico :
>
>> The only thing that might be an issue is that you can't use open(fn) to
>> read your files, but you have to explicitly state the encoding. That
>> would be an understandable problem, especially for someone who devel
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 1:27 PM, Mark Lawrence
wrote:
>
> The difference between our most illustrious resident unicode expert and rr
> is that the former has only said anything of use once, whereas the latter
> does know about tkinter/IDLE. rr doesn't show up that often, the MIRUC has
> been spe
On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 6:00:16 PM UTC-5, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> I'm not aware of any mass exodus from core Python 3 to the
> fork that has consistently proposed to give the world
> Python 2.8. Do you know something that I don't?
Well, currently at least, we don't even *need* a Python 2.8,
no
2014-07-15 14:20 GMT+02:00 Valery Khamenya :
> Hi,
>
> both asyncio.as_completed() and asyncio.wait() work with lists only. No
> generators are accepted. Are there anything similar to those functions that
> pulls Tasks/Futures/coroutines one-by-one and processes them in a limited
> task pool?
Som
On 16/07/2014 23:41, Rick Johnson wrote:
Not to mention that at some point, when the numbers get low
*enough*, maintaining a project as big as Python becomes
untenable.
I'm not aware of any mass exodus from core Python 3 to the fork that has
consistently proposed to give the world Python 2.8
On 7/16/2014 5:02 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
On 7/16/2014 3:49 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
There are certainly use-cases for stdin and stdout to use bytes, but
there are also use-cases for them to deal with strings. I'll certainly
grant you that there ought to be an easy way to get access to the bin
On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 9:27:56 AM UTC-5, Frank Millman wrote:
> 2. Those adversely affected by the change are very vocal,
> but we hear very little from those who have benefited from
> it. This is to be expected - they are just getting on with
> developing in Python3 and have no need to get i
On 07/16/2014 02:32 PM, MRAB wrote:
On 2014-07-16 21:40, Skip Montanaro wrote:
Sorry, who is "rr"? I went looking in the referenced thread but found
nobody with those initials. Not so helpfully, Gmail elides most sigs,
so I couldn't reliably scan the full text either.
"rr" is "rantingrickjohn
On 2014-07-16 21:40, Skip Montanaro wrote:
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
The difference between our most illustrious resident unicode expert and rr
Sorry, who is "rr"? I went looking in the referenced thread but found
nobody with those initials. Not so helpfully, Gmail
On 7/16/2014 3:49 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
There are certainly use-cases for stdin and stdout to use bytes, but
there are also use-cases for them to deal with strings. I'll certainly
grant you that there ought to be an easy way to get access to the binary
streams,
As has been discussed befor
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> The difference between our most illustrious resident unicode expert and rr
Sorry, who is "rr"? I went looking in the referenced thread but found
nobody with those initials. Not so helpfully, Gmail elides most sigs,
so I couldn't reliably sca
On 16/07/2014 20:24, Jason Swails wrote:
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Mark Lawrence mailto:breamore...@yahoo.co.uk>> wrote:
On 16/07/2014 18:32, Deb Wyatt wrote:
Can you all stop already with the non python US bashing? Please?
Deb in WA, USA
rr started it with
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On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Mark Lawrence
wrote:
> On 16/07/2014 18:32, Deb Wyatt wrote:
>
>> Can you all stop already with the non python US bashing? Please?
>>
>> Deb in WA, USA
>>
>>
> rr started it with a fairly impressive piece of trolling but as you've
> asked so politely I will happ
On 16/07/2014 18:32, Deb Wyatt wrote:
Can you all stop already with the non python US bashing? Please?
Deb in WA, USA
rr started it with a fairly impressive piece of trolling but as you've
asked so politely I will happily oblige.
--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 11:32 AM, Deb Wyatt wrote:
> Can you all stop already with the non python US bashing? Please?
I read it more as counter-US-glorification-trolling than bashing, but
in any case that subthread seems to have died down already, so you
should be safe to start reading again if
On Wed, 16 Jul 2014 09:32:31 -0800, Deb Wyatt wrote:
> Can you all stop already with the non python US bashing? Please?
>
> Deb in WA, USA
>
> Protect
> your computer files with professional cloud backup.
> Get PCRx Backup and upload
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Javier wrote:
> I think there has been a severe miscalculation, and the change in the
> name of the interpreter python3 to python
> http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/ is a good example of the
> disconnection between GvR and the real world.
Er, that PEP c
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 11:02 PM, Deb Wyatt wrote:
> Can you all stop already with the non python US bashing? Please?
>
> Deb in WA, USA
>
>
>
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
I'm actually picking up a lot of snippets of information from that thread
by being a spe
On 16/07/2014 15:27, Frank Millman wrote:
This sub-thread is the most constructive one I have seen yet that deals with
the 'problems' that Python3 has created, and how to deal with them.
How many of the Python3 'problems' were backported to 2.7 or even 2.6?
--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not
> I don't see anyone taking the Python 2 source code and backporting a
> bunch of Python 3 features (and/or adding a bunch of their own
> features) and creating the Python 2.8 that
> http://blog.startifact.com/guido_no.jpg rejects. What split is
> actually occurring, or going to occur? I think anyo
Can you all stop already with the non python US bashing? Please?
Deb in WA, USA
Protect your computer files with professional cloud backup.
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On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 9:33 AM, Albert-Jan Roskam wrote:
> From: Zachary Ware
>> Also, 'set' doesn't require quotes
>> around a value with spaces, and you're also quoting %PYTHONDIR% when
>> you use it in the msiexec command, so you're actually double-quoting
>> the dir name (which could also be
On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 2:22 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Chris Angelico :
>
>> Why must it? Are you aware that many programs have issues with spaces
>> in file names? That's one reason for Python's default installation
>> location NOT being in the stupidly-named Program Files. Putting Python
>> th
Chris Angelico :
> The only thing that might be an issue is that you can't use open(fn)
> to read your files, but you have to explicitly state the encoding.
> That would be an understandable problem, especially for someone who
> develops on a single platform and forgets that the default differs. A
Chris Angelico :
> Why must it? Are you aware that many programs have issues with spaces
> in file names? That's one reason for Python's default installation
> location NOT being in the stupidly-named Program Files. Putting Python
> there may cause trouble with, for instance, binary extensions.
O
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 11:29 PM, Albert-Jan Roskam
wrote:
> It needs to be installed to the non-default location "c:\program
> files\python27".
Why must it? Are you aware that many programs have issues with spaces
in file names? That's one reason for Python's default installation
location NOT b
On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 1:48 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> it is dangerous to assume that the file formats agree with
> the locale.
Of course. You never assume anything about encodings. What you do is
expect something about the encoding, and either throw an error if it's
wrong, or figure out some o
Chris Angelico :
> On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 12:39 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> In other words, the well-meaning Python3 blindly obeys the locale even
>> though I "simply stipulated" that my input is UTF-8.
>
> Except that you didn't - that input was not UTF-8. When you put a text
> string as redir
On 7/16/2014 10:27 AM, Frank Millman wrote:
Would this have been so easy using Python2 - I don't think so. What follows
is blatant speculation, but it is quite possible that there are many
non-English speakers out there that have had their lives made much easier by
the changes to Python3 - a 'si
On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 12:39 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> In other words, the well-meaning Python3 blindly obeys the locale even
> though I "simply stipulated" that my input is UTF-8.
Except that you didn't - that input was not UTF-8. When you put a text
string as redirected input and then change
On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 12:27 AM, Frank Millman wrote:
> FWIW, here are my thoughts -
>
> 1. There were many backward-incompatible changes made in Python3, but the
> only one that seems to cause problems is the change to the bytes/str types.
> I agree that it is a big change, but the others seem t
Chris Angelico :
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 11:11 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> I would be especially wary of letting Python 3 interpret those files for
>> me. [...]
>
> If you're reading your own config files, you can simply stipulate that
> they are to be encoded UTF-8, and if they're not, you th
- Original Message -
> From: Zachary Ware
> To: Albert-Jan Roskam
> Cc: Python
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 3:47 PM
> Subject: Re: how to msi install Python to non-default target dir?
>
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Albert-Jan Roskam
>
> wrote:
>> hi,
>>
>> I am trying t
"Marko Rauhamaa" wrote in message
news:87egxl4zq8@elektro.pacujo.net...
> Steven D'Aprano :
>
>> On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 23:01:25 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>> In fact, I find the lazy use of Unicode strings at least as scary as
>>> the lazy use of byte strings, especially since Python 3 snea
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 11:11 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano :
>
>> With a few exceptions, /etc is filled with text files, not binary
>> files, and half the executables on the system are text (Python, Perl,
>> bash, sh, awk, etc.).
>
> Our debate seems to stem from a different idea of
On 2014-07-16, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 20:43:03 -0400, Kevin Walzer
> declaimed the following:
>
>>On 7/15/14, 6:38 PM, Mark Lawrence wrote:
>>>I did see your correction but it gave me an opportunity to mention
>>> google groups, something that just can't be missed
>>
>
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 8:29 AM, Albert-Jan Roskam
wrote:
> hi,
>
> I am trying to create a .bat file where (among other things) Python will have
> to be silently installed.
> It needs to be installed to the non-default location "c:\program
> files\python27". Any idea how this can be done?
> I k
hi,
I am trying to create a .bat file where (among other things) Python will have
to be silently installed.
It needs to be installed to the non-default location "c:\program
files\python27". Any idea how this can be done?
I keep getting the 'Help' menu, indicating that something went wrong. I've
Steven D'Aprano :
> With a few exceptions, /etc is filled with text files, not binary
> files, and half the executables on the system are text (Python, Perl,
> bash, sh, awk, etc.).
Our debate seems to stem from a different idea of what text is. To me,
text in the Python sense is a sequence of UC
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> Linux, like all Unixes, is primarily a text-based platform. With a few
> exceptions, /etc is filled with text files, not binary files, and half
> the executables on the system are text (Python, Perl, bash, sh, awk,
> etc.).
An interesting
On Wed, 16 Jul 2014 13:46:45 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Python 3 really is on a mission to elevate text into the mainstream at
> the expense of bytes. I'm guessing this is done primarily to promote the
> cross-platform transparency of Python code.
Ahead of bytes? Possibly. At the expense of b
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 9:35 PM, Steven D'Aprano
wrote:
> What I had in mind was for print to open the file in append mode, write,
> then close the file.
Ahh, okay. Very different from what I thought you were talking about,
and distinctly different in behaviour from REXX :)
In that case, it avoi
On Wed, 16 Jul 2014 18:44:38 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 5:49 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> ... Although I'm open to the suggestion that maybe the Pythonic way to
>> do that should be:
>>
>> print("foo bar baz", file="foo.txt")
>>
>>
> And I would argue against that s
Steven D'Aprano :
> Likewise for files: by default, I should be able to do this:
>
> open("foo.txt", "w").write("foo bar baz")
>
> and have something sensible happen.
I'd prefer:
open("foo.txt", "wt").write("foo bar baz")
or:
open("foo.txt", "w", encoding="utf-8").write("foo bar baz")
o
A little more off-topic:
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 3:57 AM, MRAB wrote:
> On 2014-07-16 00:53, Rick Johnson wrote:
>> Some folks even have software that "blabs" about how great a job it
>> is doing […], so if you see […] some pretentious line
>> about "this was sent from my i-phone" -- send that cr
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 5:49 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> ... Although I'm open to the suggestion
> that maybe the Pythonic way to do that should be:
>
> print("foo bar baz", file="foo.txt")
>
And I would argue against that suggestion, having worked with a
language where that's the case. In REXX,
On 16/07/2014 00:53, Rick Johnson wrote:
Another thing that irritates is those people who insist on shouting LIKE
THIS throughout their posts.
--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.
Mark Lawrence
---
This email is free from
On Wed, 16 Jul 2014 08:52:31 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano :
>
>> On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 23:01:25 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>> In fact, I find the lazy use of Unicode strings at least as scary as
>>> the lazy use of byte strings, especially since Python 3 sneaks Unicode
>>> to t
Kevin Walzer wrote:
On 7/15/14, 9:56 PM, Nicholas Cannon wrote:
I then put the .msi on sourceforge and it works great
but when i put the .app on there and download it it says something
like i can open this on old architecture or something so i have to put
it through google drive
It's hard t
On Wed, 16 Jul 2014 14:20:37 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 1:51 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> Perhaps the *stupidest* thing the author of the "Python 3 is killing
>> Python" blog post wrote was that it's easier to port Python code to a
>> *completely different language*
I completed the basic version of my learning app. (It can be found
here for those remotely interested:
http://www.tyresoschack.se/apps/LASK.py). (LASK rating usually are in
the range c 800 to c 2700 the higher the better).
It's just a simple tool to calculate LASK chess rating and completely
CLI b
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